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Thread: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Jay's idea of the creek might be a good idea, except I'll take a scrubbing brush with me. I've got most of the dirt off already but to able to lay the sail out in the water would make it easier.
    Last edited by WX; 08-15-2021 at 10:32 PM.
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  2. #72
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post


    Also, way back in the early days pre WBF (for me) through naivety (and fluke) I came up with a surprisingly successful repair to leaks and sloppiness in my CB case, not wanting to pull it apart and rebuild it: I sanded up inside the CB case as best I could with rasps and files and long sticks covered in sandpaper, made a CB shaped mould up out of MDF (a couple of mm oversized from the CB), waxed it up thoroughly, positioned it in the centre of the CB case, sealed off around the base of it and poured epoxy down into the case to fill it up. The MDF mould didn’t come out quite as easily as I had hoped but after a bit of digging it did come out cleanly and left me with a well sealed and nicely firm case that the CB slid up and down perfectly in.
    Thats clever Greg, beats trying a similar approach of using thickened epoxy and fiberglass up the slot which was only partially successful on my Harley 14.

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    I made some good progress today with the centreboard slot in the keelson and the case itself.
    The slot had a strip of wood glued in to stop the case leaking and this had to come out.
    The biggest problem was finding where I had put my drill. So after much fruitless searching of the shed and a number of walks to the house to see if I had left it over there I finally found it...under the boat where I had left it.
    So, the closed slot.
    Closed slot.jpg

    Mallet and chisel work, this went better than I hoped, though it took some doing.
    Mallet and chisel work.jpg
    The end result is a good cleared slot without any gouges in the keelson.
    Cleared slot.jpg
    be modest, and be proud of it.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Next job was definitely on the messy side as I don't have a dust bag on my belt sander.
    Stripping the paint off the centreboard.
    One side done.jpg
    The other before I started on it.
    The other side.jpg
    And the finished job. It's certainly a case with lots of character and it will need a bit filling in a few spots.
    All done.jpg
    be modest, and be proud of it.

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    How's the surface between the logs and the ply sides do you think Gary?
    Flat bottomed boats, you make the rockin' world go round.............

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnno View Post
    How's the surface between the logs and the ply sides do you think Gary?
    On the outside they are good and solid. The ply has lost a bit of top veneer in one spot but I'd say it's mechanical damage, not rot. The surface inside the case seems good but I haven't checked it all up close yet.
    be modest, and be proud of it.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Sail repairs. All three sails have suffered from rodent damage. The jib was the hardest even though it only had one hole, it was slippery and folded like cardboard.
    The mainsail is the worst with around 8-10 holes. I'm using circular sailcloth patches, and yes my sewing is not wonderful. My bobbin thread is heavier and it's messing with the thread tension.
    Holes.jpg

    Patch.jpg

    Date.jpg
    be modest, and be proud of it.

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    I tackled two jobs today, the first was clean up the keelson around the centreboard slot. Whoever bedded the case down last used butyl mastic tape, and I found the best way to remove it was with a heatgun and scrapper. Once that was done I went over the surface with a flapper disk on the anglegrinder.
    Keelson cleaned up 1.jpg

    Keelson cleaned up 2.jpg
    I still need to clean a bit of paint from the side of the keelson, and I need to work out how I'm going to treat the inside edge of the slot.
    It was all looking pretty grotty so a bucket of water and sponge cleaned it up a bit.

    After a scrubb.jpg
    Second job was filling screwholes and the join between topside and transom. I think a second go over will be needed though.
    Filling 1.jpg

    Filling 2.jpg
    be modest, and be proud of it.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    There have been a hull repairs over the years judging by the number of tingles...can a plywood patch be called a tingle?
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  10. #80
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    If the plywood was attached over the top of the existing hull it is a tingle.
    They were usually copper sheet nailed on with sealant (rag soaked in something) underneath.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacko View Post
    If the plywood was attached over the top of the existing hull it is a tingle.
    They were usually copper sheet nailed on with sealant (rag soaked in something) underneath.

    Yeah, I did look it up, but buttstrap doesn't seem quite right either. Anyway there are several sections of ply screwed down inside the hull obviously backing hull repairs.
    be modest, and be proud of it.

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Greetings Gary,

    Looks like some progress is being made! But I've got to ask, what is a tingle? Certainly not my dorm back at U of O. Obviously some type of patch from the discussion above, but is it just another word for patch? Inquiring minds need to know!

    Thanks!
    “Perpetual optimism is a force to live by.”

    Colin Powell

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by FishoutaFlorida View Post
    Greetings Gary,

    Looks like some progress is being made! But I've got to ask, what is a tingle? Certainly not my dorm back at U of O. Obviously some type of patch from the discussion above, but is it just another word for patch? Inquiring minds need to know!

    Thanks!
    A tingle is usually applied to the outside of the hull and is traditionally sheet copper, a layer of canvas or felt is sandwiched between.
    Others may disagree but yes, it's another name for a patch, but I guess a particular type of patch.
    be modest, and be proud of it.

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Backing block might be a good name for your old repairs.
    A few years ago I was helping strip the ugly off a 100 year old canoe sterned mailboat, ie the massive cabin etc.
    One of the things I did was remove all the copper tingles from the stem and garboard at the bow so it could be refastened and caulked properly.
    They were apparently all watertight, looked like they were pretty ancient in their own right, and were well fastened.
    This is my only experience with them.

    I've screwed a piece of plywood with a layer of underwater "Nead it" inside my hull once as a temporary repair to a cracked glue join. It was squirting about a foot in the air at the time!

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    I will go with backing block.
    It will be interesting to see what I find when I heel the hull over to sand back the bottom.
    be modest, and be proud of it.

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    I was looking at my centreboard case today. It's removed from the boat. I have been trying to work out the best way to resurface the inside face. I think the easiest is to cut the case open along the centreline. Glass the inside face and glue back together. Doing a straight glue back together I would probably lose maybe a 1/16th to 1/8 inch in slot width. The other option is to simply replace the internal framing.
    be modest, and be proud of it.

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    I agree I think it would be good to cut the case open. Perhaps if you did it with a reasonable width blade it would be easy to size up a thin (2-3mm, whatever is required) wood strip and laminate it in when you glue the case back together and not lose any clearance.
    Flat bottomed boats, you make the rockin' world go round.............

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    I was looking at my centreboard case today. It's removed from the boat. I have been trying to work out the best way to resurface the inside face. I think the easiest is to cut the case open along the centreline. Glass the inside face and glue back together. Doing a straight glue back together I would probably lose maybe a 1/16th to 1/8 inch in slot width. The other option is to simply replace the internal framing.

    Is there much slop between the centreboard and the case anyway? Loosing some room in the slot may be beneficial.

    One of the reasons that I did mine the way I did with the epoxy and the mould was to tighten up the CB case as the previously loose fit caused noticeable weather helm. The tighter fit of the CB fixed that.
    Larks

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  19. #89
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Is there much slop between the centreboard and the case anyway? Loosing some room in the slot may be beneficial.

    One of the reasons that I did mine the way I did with the epoxy and the mould was to tighten up the CB case as the previously loose fit caused noticeable weather helm. The tighter fit of the CB fixed that.
    I'll measure it. Just need to make sure I don't alter the width too much or refitting on the bolts may be a problem.
    be modest, and be proud of it.

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Well, that was dead easy, and no wonder the centrecase leaked. While having a close look I noticed a crack in the glue at the aft end of the portside log. I knocked a chisel into it and I was able to peel the log off. In about 40 minutes work I had disassembled pretty much the whole case down to it's individual parts.
    Centreboard intact.jpg

    Split 1.jpg

    Split 2.jpg

    Split 3.jpg
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  21. #91
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    There's a few steel screws mixed in with the brass, or bronze ones. None of which want to come out easily.
    Steel screws.jpg
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  22. #92
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Bit of work, but great to have done it.
    All the wood looks reusable from here.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  23. #93
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    All the wood looks reusable from here.
    Yeah it seems like the rehab should be relatively easy from here (except maybe some of those screws).
    “Perpetual optimism is a force to live by.”

    Colin Powell

  24. #94
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Ho does that make you feel about the resto f the glue in the hull?

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacko View Post
    Ho does that make you feel about the resto f the glue in the hull?
    I find myself thinking about that.
    be modest, and be proud of it.

  26. #96
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    In the process of cutting a new kitchen shelf, the offcut provided new centreboard internal framing.
    Centrecase framing.jpg
    be modest, and be proud of it.

  27. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Is there much slop between the centreboard and the case anyway? Loosing some room in the slot may be beneficial.

    One of the reasons that I did mine the way I did with the epoxy and the mould was to tighten up the CB case as the previously loose fit caused noticeable weather helm. The tighter fit of the CB fixed that.
    That's interesting. What's the theory for increased weather helm caused by the board being sloppy in the case?

    Sent from my MI MAX 3 using Tapatalk

  28. #98
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitziel View Post
    That's interesting. What's the theory for increased weather helm caused by the board being sloppy in the case?

    Sent from my MI MAX 3 using Tapatalk
    I suppose if there is too much gap the board can twist on the pin, which could cause a lateral force to either port or starboard. The gap in mine allows 5mm either side.
    be modest, and be proud of it.

  29. #99
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Bit of work, but great to have done it.
    All the wood looks reusable from here.
    It is all reusable but I am replacing some of it, just because I can. I may replace the top rails with something more decorative.
    be modest, and be proud of it.

  30. #100
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by FishoutaFlorida View Post
    Yeah it seems like the rehab should be relatively easy from here (except maybe some of those screws).
    Screw removal is next on the list.
    be modest, and be proud of it.

  31. #101
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitziel View Post
    That's interesting. What's the theory for increased weather helm caused by the board being sloppy in the case?

    Sent from my MI MAX 3 using Tapatalk
    I couldn’t say for certain, I was put onto it by a mate who is (was) a state dinghy champion who I used to sail with quite a bit and who was a bit of a master at tuning a boat . I put it down to the concept of the CB canting off line with the rudder causing a disrupted water flow across the blade of the rudder. I hadn’t thought of the CB twisting in the slot as Gary suggested causing it to act like a rudder itself but one or both were the likely cause....
    Larks

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    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  32. #102
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    I agree that foils which aren't snug will cause turbulence and speed loss, especially when tacking or gybing and the board flops about.

    But it wasn't clear to me why an un-snug board would cause weather helm, especially on a steady beat, so thanks for your suggestions - I'll do the math :-)

    PS: of course, weather helm isn't all bad anyway; on a light day, you want as much as all the tools you have at your disposal can counter. That's when the sloppy case might pay dividends ;-)

    Sent from my MI MAX 3 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Mitziel; 09-07-2021 at 06:14 AM.

  33. #103
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    I saw a method for snugging up the cb without sandwiching it too tight; using some 10mm wide of strips of nylon inside the case. The same kind of plastic they make chopping boards out of, I think it's referred to as TEP.
    basically a couple of skids on the inside faces of the cb case that locate the cb.
    minimised surface area to jam the cb, and the material has a naturally quite 'greasy' texture.

    screwed on, screws recessed of course. The stuff is unlikely to welcome glue.

    I like the idea, a jammed cb is even more annoying than a sloppy one.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  34. #104
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    I expect to have 4 to 5mm play either side of the board, so I don't think there will be a problem.
    be modest, and be proud of it.

  35. #105
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Both inside faces of the centreboard case have been sanded back to bare ply.
    Fibreglassing Sunday, if life doesn't get in the way.
    Inside faces sanded.jpg
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