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Thread: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    It might be a bit too far out of your way Gary, but if you are still after some decent marine ply at a decent price I’ve just bought a few sheets from this guy in Nerang and, although they are only BS standard and not AS/NZS they seem to be quite good quality and are also the best priced that I have found. Good faces and, from what I can see so far, no dodgy voids in the laminates.

    https://marineplywood.com.au/prices
    I've been looking at their website Greg.
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  2. #37
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Love the energy, she'll come up a beaut.

    I'm restricted at the moment to one day a week but I'm happy with the progress. The transom was likely to be the biggest headache and I wasn't sure if I was going to have to totally rebuild it. I'm pleased I didn't have to.
    FishoutaForida, thanks.
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  3. #38
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    That day again and quite productive it was.
    I did make up a transom template but when I removed it from the transom and laid it on the ply, I was a bit not impressed. So as I had managed to remove the original ply more or less intact, I figured it would be the ideal template.
    Transom template 1.jpg
    I really tried to minimize wastage when it came to cutting the second layer but the cutout left from cutting the topside plank made it difficult.
    Transom ply cutout1.jpg
    That done it was onto preparing the port quarter for the new plank.
    Paint stripping is not fun but the heat gun, despite the cool breeze helped. I think I need a windbreak set up, I was losing a lot of heat I think. Anyway I got enough done to allow the repair.
    Note the previous topside repair top left.
    Paint stripping 1.jpg
    With the outside done it was time to clean up the stringers etc.
    Stringers cleaned up.jpg
    Last edited by WX; 07-25-2021 at 12:23 AM. Reason: added text
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  4. #39
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    And finally the buttstraps are glued in place. Normally I would use epoxy but I'd recently bought some Gorilla Glue so I figured I'd give that a go.
    Buttstraps glued on.jpg
    Last edited by WX; 07-25-2021 at 05:08 AM.
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  5. #40
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    I managed to squeeze in about an hour's work today. I had hoped to get the top side plank glued on but I noticed one of the buttstraps was sitting a bit proud of the stringer, so that needed pulling into line.
    However, I did get all the new timber glued into the transom frame. This means next Sunday I can get the first layer of transom ply glued on.
    Glued transom framing.jpg
    I had some clear epoxy left over so that went on the transom outer layer...outside face.
    Epoxy coat transom ply 1.jpg
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  6. #41
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    "I did make up a transom template but when I removed it from the transom and laid it on the ply, I was a bit not impressed."
    It was the same when I replaced the transom on the cadet. And when I came to put the new one in I was not at all sure it would……. no, the boat would fit it! But it all came together and she is sailing on a lake with the disabled Sailing organisation, I gave it to them. I gave 3 boats away in 2019.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    "I did make up a transom template but when I removed it from the transom and laid it on the ply, I was a bit not impressed."
    It was the same when I replaced the transom on the cadet. And when I came to put the new one in I was not at all sure it would……. no, the boat would fit it! But it all came together and she is sailing on a lake with the disabled Sailing organisation, I gave it to them. I gave 3 boats away in 2019.
    When I cut out the first one I checked to see if it would fit...it did.
    Last edited by WX; 07-27-2021 at 03:48 AM.
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  8. #43
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    The starboard cockpit seat is structurally sound, but not how I want it. So the first section is cut away to allow me to clean up the transom framing before the big glue-up tomorrow.
    Starboard quarter 1.jpg
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  9. #44
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Sunday and time to mix epoxy.
    1st job was the portside topside plank repair and that went well.
    None of these photos are going to look like much but they are big steps.
    Topside plank glued.jpg
    Next was the first layer of transom ply. this consumed a decent amount of brushed on epoxy and thickened epoxy. It's a bit gappy around the edges but that will get filled in when the 2nd layer goes on.
    Transom ply 1st layer.jpg
    I had hoped to get the 2nd layer on but the 1st layer needed cramping to the frame in a few places.
    The next stage is to modify the cockpit seats, make them wider to increase storage space and reduce down the companionway. One of the ply offcuts is actually big enough to modify the portside of the companionway. I do like this small boat stuff, the material demands are so small.
    I had planned to strip back all the paint on the framing but heatgun and scrapper is not easy work. Particularly with dodgy finger joints.
    So I grabbed a bucket of water and a chunk of mattress sponge and cleaned up a big section, and the paint under the grime is not so bad. If I can get it really clean I figure I will give it a light sand and simply repaint it.
    I lined this shot up to show Redwing sulking in the background.
    Portside aft cabin.jpg
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  10. #45
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Guess it must be Sunday eh.
    Sunday started well with the 2nd layer of transom ply going on with only a bit of trimming.
    Transom layer 2.jpg
    I had planned on starting the portside cockpit seat and cabin bulkhead mods...but one of the big question marks regarding this boat has been the centreboard case. JayinOz mentioned he had had an ongoing leak problem from around the case somewhere.
    I started with the bolts holding the case to the keelson, and this is where the problems started. All but two of the bolts turned with the nut, and that is not a good start. Also, the log on the portside near the centreboard pin showed signs of rot.
    Centreboard 1.jpg
    The screws holding caps over the pin came out way too easy.
    The pin is in good shape with no signs of pitting.
    Centreboard pin.jpg

    The bolts look like they may be copper but I haven't cleaned the paint off enough to be sure, they may well be stainless. Either way, unless the shanks are just threaded rod it looks like I am going to have to cut them off.
    Anyway given that, I concentrated on stripping any cabin sole framing off the case.
    Centreboard 2.jpg
    And, that was today.
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  11. #46
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    I found this nice bit of detail.
    CentreCase.jpg
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  12. #47
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    Default

    Pretty much all plywood TS16 centreboard cases leak at the hull join. That's not an issue for a racer. The attention you pay to making it right at this stage will pay big dividends when you cruise it. Be mindful of how you treat the case in your use of the boat.


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  13. #48
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by brucemoffatt View Post
    Pretty much all plywood TS16 centreboard cases leak at the hull join. That's not an issue for a racer. The attention you pay to making it right at this stage will pay big dividends when you cruise it. Be mindful of how you treat the case in your use of the boat.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    There is a strong possibility that I will build a new case. If there is rot in the caselog then there is a strong possibility that its in case ply as well. Fingers are crossed its not in the keelson.
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  14. #49
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    I note that in the plans the centreboard pin ends have plywood covers. Mine are fancy bronze.
    20210810_152627.jpg

    20210810_152610.jpg
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  15. #50
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    I've started dragging the sails out of the bag and giving them a soak. Some of the stains seem to be coming out and the mouse pee smell is gone.
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  16. #51
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    I note that in the plans the centreboard pin ends have plywood covers. Mine are fancy bronze.
    20210810_152627.jpg

    20210810_152610.jpg
    Thanks for posting these photo's Gary. The 14 plans don't seem to show these. Ideas were forming on how to cover them, but these look good. Any gaskets between them and the case logs?
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  17. #52
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by FishoutaFlorida View Post
    Thanks for posting these photo's Gary. The 14 plans don't seem to show these. Ideas were forming on how to cover them, but these look good. Any gaskets between them and the case logs?
    There was what appeared to be butyl mastic...and a good dollop of silicone.
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  18. #53
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    If it’s of any use Gary, this is what I replaced my CB pin arrangement with:








    Just brass plumbing fittings, not bronze, but as it lives on a trailer and gets hosed down after each sail there shouldn’t be any problems with the bronze. The screw on end caps make it much easier to get the CB out at any time.


    Also, way back in the early days pre WBF (for me) through naivety (and fluke) I came up with a surprisingly successful repair to leaks and sloppiness in my CB case, not wanting to pull it apart and rebuild it: I sanded up inside the CB case as best I could with rasps and files and long sticks covered in sandpaper, made a CB shaped mould up out of MDF (a couple of mm oversized from the CB), waxed it up thoroughly, positioned it in the centre of the CB case, sealed off around the base of it and poured epoxy down into the case to fill it up. The MDF mould didn’t come out quite as easily as I had hoped but after a bit of digging it did come out cleanly and left me with a well sealed and nicely firm case that the CB slid up and down perfectly in.
    Larks

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  19. #54
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    If it’s of any use Gary, this is what I replaced my CB pin arrangement with:








    Just brass plumbing fittings, not bronze, but as it lives on a trailer and gets hosed down after each sail there shouldn’t be any problems with the bronze. The screw on end caps make it much easier to get the CB out at any time.


    Also, way back in the early days pre WBF (for me) through naivety (and fluke) I came up with a surprisingly successful repair to leaks and sloppiness in my CB case, not wanting to pull it apart and rebuild it: I sanded up inside the CB case as best I could with rasps and files and long sticks covered in sandpaper, made a CB shaped mould up out of MDF (a couple of mm oversized from the CB), waxed it up thoroughly, positioned it in the centre of the CB case, sealed off around the base of it and poured epoxy down into the case to fill it up. The MDF mould didn’t come out quite as easily as I had hoped but after a bit of digging it did come out cleanly and left me with a well sealed and nicely firm case that the CB slid up and down perfectly in.
    Greg, when I looked at the setup on this boat It reminded me of what you used. I'll reuse what I have here, as I quite like it.
    The centreboard case is going to be interesting. It has a timber plug glued into the slot that has to come out and at least one patch of rot in a caselog. If I can remove the case it will make life easier I think. I shall have a better idea of what will happen on Sunday.
    be modest, and be proud of it.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Greg, when I looked at the setup on this boat It reminded me of what you used. I'll reuse what I have here, as I quite like it.
    The centreboard case is going to be interesting. It has a timber plug glued into the slot that has to come out and at least one patch of rot in a caselog. If I can remove the case it will make life easier I think. I shall have a better idea of what will happen on Sunday.
    Yes of course, if it works well as it is why would you change the pin set up?
    Larks

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  21. #56
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Yes of course, if it works well as it is why would you change the pin set up?
    Oh I don't know...I get weird ideas sometimes.
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  22. #57
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Had a win today. I couldn't undo the caselog bolts holding the centreboard case down. All but 3 of the bolts turned with the nuts. I used an angle grinder to split the nuts off the bolts. Copper bolts. The centreboard case is now loose and ready to be removed.
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  23. #58
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    be modest, and be proud of it.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    It looks like the timber has split along the join but what you are actually seeing is the mastic layer.
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  25. #60
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Had my 1st jab of Astra Zeneca yesterday, so feeling about 99 cents in the dollar...which is not too bad.
    Anyway with the aid of wooden wedges and a 4 lb hammer, the centreboard case was persuaded to let go of the keelson.
    Wedges 1.jpg

    Wedges 3.jpg

    Loose 1.jpg
    I managed to get it out without removing any more framing.
    Case logs 1.jpg
    The case is in quite good condition, so I will clean it up and reuse it instead of building a new one.
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  26. #61
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    All you need is a clue. One one of the headsails is the date 27/12/88 and the name B Keen. Bruce Keen measured the sail before an event and left me a clue.

    FYI Gary Pick. Neil has an old listing of boats. No.70 was originally called Tubby and sailed by Hendrik Olthof from Smiths Lake NSW. That is the information we have.
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  27. #62
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Jesus Gary. If I hadn't spent the money I got from you on pig feed I'd be tempted to give it back to you. What a bloody mess. I hope you manage to find at least one section you don't have to replace. Do you have a date in mind for a launch? Or is it just a matter of trying to finish it before you die? Sorry mate. JayInOz

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    All you need is a clue. One one of the headsails is the date 27/12/88 and the name B Keen. Bruce Keen measured the sail before an event and left me a clue.

    FYI Gary Pick. Neil has an old listing of boats. No.70 was originally called Tubby and sailed by Hendrik Olthof from Smiths Lake NSW. That is the information we have.
    Mine had a hull number carved into the top of the CB casing, 110 in my case, built in 1974. I don’t know how long they were assigned hull numbers for but it may be worth looking around for one.
    Larks

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  29. #64
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayInOz View Post
    Jesus Gary. If I hadn't spent the money I got from you on pig feed I'd be tempted to give it back to you. What a bloody mess. I hope you manage to find at least one section you don't have to replace. Do you have a date in mind for a launch? Or is it just a matter of trying to finish it before you die? Sorry mate. JayInOz
    Looks worse than it is Jay. The centreboard case is in much better condition than I expected, and with it out i can get at the strip of timber you glued in the slot.
    As for a launch date, I'd be surprised if it was this year. One of the jobs I have been doing is washing the sails, mate that mouse odour is a bit potent eh.
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  30. #65
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Mine had a hull number carved into the top of the CB casing, 110 in my case, built in 1974. I don’t know how long they were assigned hull numbers for but it may be worth looking around for one.
    Greg i heard that mentioned elsewhere, I will have a look today.
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  31. #66
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Looks worse than it is Jay. The centreboard case is in much better condition than I expected, and with it out i can get at the strip of timber you glued in the slot.
    As for a launch date, I'd be surprised if it was this year. One of the jobs I have been doing is washing the sails, mate that mouse odour is a bit potent eh.
    If you know someone with a swimming pool chuck the sails in and leave them a few hours or overnight
    Larks

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  32. #67
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Actually if you could tether the sails in a running creek overnight... it's what I used to do to get the last traces of lime out of hides that I dehaired.
    Gary the mouse smell is in just about everything I own. It's been really cold and wet here which has shut them up, but there are enough about that numbers will probably come up quickly in the spring. At the worst of it we trapped over a thousand in the house in five weeks. It's rats that are the problem at the moment- I've probably shot close to forty. Still better than living in town though JayInOz

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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    If you know someone with a swimming pool chuck the sails in and leave them a few hours or overnight
    I have a blue drum that does the job. There's a few stains that may not come out. Next stage is to patch the various rodent holes, and I have some old sail cloth that will do the trick.
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  34. #69
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayInOz View Post
    Actually if you could tether the sails in a running creek overnight... it's what I used to do to get the last traces of lime out of hides that I dehaired.
    Gary the mouse smell is in just about everything I own. It's been really cold and wet here which has shut them up, but there are enough about that numbers will probably come up quickly in the spring. At the worst of it we trapped over a thousand in the house in five weeks. It's rats that are the problem at the moment- I've probably shot close to forty. Still better than living in town though JayInOz
    I can only imagine what it must be like.
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  35. #70
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    Default Re: Another Hartley TS16 restore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Mine had a hull number carved into the top of the CB casing, 110 in my case, built in 1974. I don’t know how long they were assigned hull numbers for but it may be worth looking around for one.
    I had a look and there's nothing obvious.
    be modest, and be proud of it.

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