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Thread: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    My wife came out and helped me tidy up the tent and table. Ready for the final push on boards and cases now.
    Then roasted sausages around our fire pit then s'mores and stories with guests at our bnb.

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  2. #72
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    Rudders, leeboard and rudder cases primed with 2 coats, ready to paint tomorrow.
    That's all the composite parts, just aluminium parts left to make and not painting them..... Maybe in the water this weekend if all goes perfectly, next week if not.

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  3. #73
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    Got 2 coats of white sprayed on the boards and cases, so painting is done, just aluminum and assembly remain. Ran out of mixed paint on the cases and decided "it's not an art project" and called it done and cleaned the gun.

    My wife asked me, "why do you keep saying that?" And I said, "saying what?"...... "It's not an art project"........ Guess I'm struggling with not making it perfect more than I realized

    Lake was nice so we went trolling. We each got a lake trout, wife got first one, I got smallest and Landon got largest. Brutus gave them all a loving lick on the nose before sending them back.

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  4. #74
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    Hey Narfi, I can't wait to see your trimaran on the water and hear how it performs! Where abouts is Bush Alaska anyway? Aint it too cold to go fishing up there? I can't take the cold, man. I have been stationed in too many hot climates, and my blood has gotten thinned out. Great job on the rudders and cases, I am still worried about your hinges, cant wait to see how they do.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  5. #75
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    May 2021
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    Almost there!!!! Got everything installed and most of the rigging done. The bungee material I ordered hasn't come yet, not sure if I wait or rig something else up.....

    The traveler is super smooth and I'm happy with it. Was running out of pullies so used the amazon block and tackle kit for the sheets even though it's more leverage than I need.

    The rudder retracts work great at 2:1 but I was hoping to link them together.... Too heavy together so will stick to retracting them separately. The leeboard wouldn't lift at 2:1 and is 'okish' at 4:1, hopefully the bungee down on rudders and board don't make them too difficult to lift, I think rudders will be ok but may end up needing to adjust the leeboard both down and up and not just up like the rudders..... Will see.

    My biggest struggle was the rudder steering, I think I made my arms too short, but have an idea to change the linkage on them to 3:1 which should hopefully be 'just right'.

    Of course life is always there distracting. We got the boarders of our new patios poured this weekend, hopefully main pads today or tomorrow. I haven't needed to help much, the guys doing it are great, but always try to be around if needed without micromanaging a project I don't know how to do.

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  6. #76
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee.007 View Post
    Hey Narfi, I can't wait to see your trimaran on the water and hear how it performs! Where abouts is Bush Alaska anyway? Aint it too cold to go fishing up there? I can't take the cold, man. I have been stationed in too many hot climates, and my blood has gotten thinned out. Great job on the rudders and cases, I am still worried about your hinges, cant wait to see how they do.
    getting really close so we will find out how the hinges do :P

    its been kind of a coolish overcast summer, but sunny days get us up into the 80s, out on our FS17 last night 6-8:30pm the sun was shining and we were in tshirts, water nice, wife and son were dragging their feet in the water over the edge as we were trolling.

    As far as fishing, I am not a fisherman, but my wife wants to be and enjoys evenings on the water. People pay thousands of dollars per person to come here and fish so I assume its good, fishing lodges are big buisness in Alaska. Our common fish on the lake here are greyling, lake trout and northern pike, but there are a few others I cant think of now in addition to the salmon runs.
    Will send you a pm with more personal info.

  7. #77
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    May 2021
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    Just need bungee material to hold down the rudders and leeboard. (Got a cord tied to the leeboard so can do a trial run without kick up safety, hopefully find two crappy old bungees around the village somewhere for the rudders untill the good stuff shows up.)

    It's heavy but the hand truck wheels I got for the canoe seems to hold it up.... Too tippy for the ~mile treck down the gravel runway to the water though..... Thinking I'll just make 2x4 'V's to strap to the bottoms of the outriggers to work as skids.

    Maybe today but it's looking pretty busy so might not be till tomorrow. The cement truck we were going to use yesterday for the patios was broke down and the 1yrd mixer in the village was in use, so today hopefully pouring front patio today and back tomorrow... Cutting it close, I blocked off a week for our Airbnb and guests arrive tomorrow....... Hopefully they can get to the front door o.0

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  8. #78
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    I have never sailed before and it is amazing. Light winds 2-5ish sometimes felt like none, but great for a first evening of learning. Only issues were the rudders didn't go down all the way and steering was stiff. I'll need to modify both aspects of that system, buy they were still functional.

    My old roommate from before I got married was in town, and he had taken some lessons, so I wasn't completely unsupervised....... By the end of the night him and I, 3 of our boys and my wife had all been around the bay a few times. Most human body weight we had in at one time was around 550lbs.

    First Landon and his friend took it on its 'maiden voyage' and paddled it out and back to check stability.... it is very stable, I stood on one outrigger and tried to get it rocking and could still only get it about 2/3rds submerged. After they got it wet, then my old roommate and I took it out and tried dropping the rudders and leeboard and hoisted the sail. The leeboard is VERY buoyant, and I do not think a bungee will work for holding it down, so good thing they hadn't come yet, I will need to put a cushion pad under the rear beam because it bangs up pretty good when releasing it. Rudders will probably need to be tied down and not bungee for the same reason.

    It is kind of funny most of the pictures show us with paddles, but that's just because we were close to the cameras... once started we only needed a couple strokes when tacking though I was able to get around a couple of times on momentum, I am guessing with stronger wind and more momentum and lots of practice it won't be an issue at all.

    Next up, more practice, then out onto the main lake.
    Pictures of note are the curious other 'multihulls' circling us, and the amazing rainbow to finish the evening with.

    There is a limit to pictures uploaded here per day, so here is a link to all the pictures I posted,
    https://www.community.boatbuildercen...492100#p492100

    and a short clip in action,


  9. #79
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    Jun 2000
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    Madison Wisconsin
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    Looking good!
    One thing you can do for boards and rudders if bungie cord isn't strong enough to hold them down is to use a fairly hard-braided line and a big plastic clam cleat. Hitting something that way would normally be a disaster, since applying tension to the rope just pulls the line even farther into the cleat's teeth. However, if you take a drill bit just slightly bigger in diameter than your line and drill a horizontal hole, lengthwise through the cleat at the bottom of the teeth, you can make a cleat which will release. You hit something, the rope tightens and gets pulled deeper into the cleat's teeth. The plastic cleat flexes a bit and the rope pops into the hole you drilled at the bottom and is free to run, allowing the foil to kick up. Screw the cleat to something solid for testing and start with a fairly small drill bit. You can stick the rope in and check for the point where the rope releases. The drill bit and hole diameter can then be adjusted as needed until the release tension seems about right for the boat.

    Our Farrier trimaran had such a system on the centerboard. I nailed an old farmhouse brick chimney once with the centerboard, out in the middle of a man made lake and the system worked great. The only damage was a small gelcoat chip on the board.

    clam.jpg

  10. #80
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    Aug 2015
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    Austin, TX
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    Yeah nice build!

    The few times I tried bungees for leeboard and rudder hold-downs, I didn't like them much didn't work well. Todd has made a good suggestion. There is also an auto release clam cleat that ductworks sells. They are popular with the people I sail with.

    https://duckworks.com/auto-release-clamcleats/

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    Last edited by Matt young; 08-12-2021 at 07:30 AM.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

  11. #81
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    Jul 2020
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    Evans, Georgia, USA
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    Looking pretty good Narfi! I used a bungie cord double looped through a pad eye bolted to my rudder head and then down to the rudder just below the pivot area. I positioned the pad eyes just out of the axis of rotation so it "locked" into place after it passed the center point of the bolt that goes through the rudder head. Your rudders are much bigger than mine though. And since they are hollow, you may have some buoyancy holding them up. If you want to check out my youtube channel (search for "Lee's Kayak Trimarans") there is a video of my rudder when I broke it that shows how I did my rudder hold down with the bungies. I think I called the video "broken rudder fail". Todd has me thinking about trying the cam cleat idea. My rudder will kick up if I hit something hard at decent speed, but when I come into the ramp slowly it just drags and scratches the bottom.

    I had the same feelings you are having about my first sailing experience on the water. What an exhilarating experience it is to be moving across the water with zero muscle effort, other than moving the tiller! I don't care who you are, once you have that first experience, especially with a boat you built yourself, it instantly becomes an addiction that is impossible to cure. All you can do is just continue to feed the addiction with more boat building, and more water time! As I am finding, and as I am sure you will discover, I have the constant need to modify and change things to make the boat sail more efficiently, be more durable, and continue feeding my addiction.

    Some day when I grow up (retire) I plan to do nothing but build small kayak trimaran sail boats. I am sure I will sell some as I can to make some money, but it is really just a plan to continue justifying my new-found addiction.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  12. #82
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    May 2021
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    Bush Alaska
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    I have figured out how to secure them down using the same cable I was holding them up with.

    Screenshot_20210812-080523_Gallery.jpg


    Not a great picture but shows the geometry.


    The darker line is the bungee that was too weak and not enough length to build spring tension......

    You can barely see the retract cable to the front but it is tyed around the eye bolt on the leading edge of the rudder case (forward red dot) back through the hole at top of rudder (top red dot) and then forward through the eye bolt for a 2:1 leverage.

    I can pull slack in the retract cable each side of the hole (top red dot) and wrap it around the screws/bolts (sticking out about 1.5" each side) lower on the case (the lowest red dot) for pulling the rudder down instead of up.

    As for building addiction.... I already had it, built the canoe a few years ago, then a fast skiff 17 with a 60hp mercury, this trimaran project was a slight sidetrack from our current project of building a zenith 750 super duty,
    http://www.zenithair.net/introduction-ch-750-super-duty/

    and for the last year or so I have been dreaming/drooling hard about this set of plans,
    https://schionningdesign.com/wp-cont...ernational.pdf

    this is stage one towards that goal.... time will tell, right now it looks like my wife might want one quicker than I can build so we will have to get more creative...

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    So... Second sail today. We did a pass around the bay then headed for open water... Wind was a little better than first night but still quite mild. We hit quite a few dead spots but always picked back up and maintained forward motion.

    The waves on the lake were not bad and the trimaran was solid, but the mast moved a lot and the forestay which I knew was loose was worse with the stress on it so we turned back and got back to the ramp safely. The wind had mostly died off when we entered the channel to the bay and we had to tack a few times to get through, got off to the side as much as possible when a float plane was landing and hit the leeboard close to shore once. The cord stretched some when hit and I think maybe some stretchier rope might be good enough for kickup on it.

    The trailer under canoe and skids under outriggers is working great behind the Honda 4wheeler the less than 1 mile down the runway to the boat ramp.

    After we got home I redid the forestay and shrouds much tighter then started fiddling with the steering system, first dummied up longer yokes which helped some but still not good. Dummied up some tillers and they were very smooth. I just need to stop being stubborn with the cable system and make some tillers.

  14. #84
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    May 2016
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    Pacific drifting
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion


    Clever & simple solution Todd...

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    Looks like you are getting things sorted , boat looks to be going well. 👍

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    Do they still make slip-n-slides? When I was a kid we had one. I imagine if you covered it in a few gallons of vegetable oil and doused yourself in more oil..... That's about how slick and smooth my new steering system is.

    Only concern now is to keep them from banging around while trailering..... Bare wood till we can test it on the water.... It is a prototype after all... Made it all with 2x4s on the band saw. The crossover pole was a scrap cut off a 2by from the structure for our new patio roof. Knocked the corners off the square with the cordless DeWalt plainer and (not much effort put into it) sanded the 8 new corners a little.

    Eyebolts in the ends of the tillers and rod with a plastic rod (off cuts from the rudder hinge pins) as the connecting pin with washers and cotter pins.

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  17. #87
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    So Landon and I went around the island again..... It was a little windier and a lot rougher.... probably 2-3ft waves white capping 8-10ft apart on the lake.

    The boat did well, we felt very stable the entire time, but it was pretty wet, was a bit of intermittent bailing going on while on the main lake

    It was too much force for the leeboard case though, and we broke it on the second tack on the other side of the island, we pulled up the board and going upwind was a lot more work.....

    For the most part we rode the waves up and down with the bows cutting through them, but it wasn't uncommon to get in a resonance with them either and rock up one and down the next till we got out of resonance again and went back to going through. (is this what they call hobby horsing?)

    It seemed harder to tack with the bigger waves, I think we had more trouble maintaining momentum, so had to paddle quite a bit around each turn.

    All in all, lots of fun and Landon had a huge grin the entire ride. He is enjoying it much more than the power boat, which seems counterintuitive to both me and my wife.

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    You can compare those tacking angles to the other day when the wind was calmer, the waves were gentler, and we had the leeboard functioning, it all adds up to a pretty big difference.....(ignoring the second half where the gps flaked out)



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  18. #88
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    Apr 2012
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    It look like you decided against using the gussets on the leeboard trunk that Beam Reach suggested earlier in the thread. Might be worth adding them to the design.

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by cracked lid View Post
    It look like you decided against using the gussets on the leeboard trunk that Beam Reach suggested earlier in the thread. Might be worth adding them to the design.
    Yup.... That's the plan now

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    Work is still summer busy (not sure if it will slow for winter or not) so haven't got a lot done, weather hasn't been great either....
    Mostly both excuses for feeling lazy in the evenings last week........


    Cut and kicked the leeboard case till I broke it off the beam and rebuilding it.
    I hadn't glassed the inside corners any first time around, this time 3x layers of 6oz on each corner and another layer of 6oz between them, so 4 layers right at each inside corner.


    3x layers of 12oz biax around the outside corners. (Overkill anyone?)

    I cut into the glass on the beam quite a bit getting the case off, so filled the cuts and played 2x layers of 12oz biax over it. Should more than reinforce the area where the case and new gussets will bond.

    We have had 2 frosts already..... Running out of good epoxy days and sometimes taking 2 days till I can send it now.... Hopefully we can get it done and back in the water still some this fall.

    If I was to do it all over again.... I think I'd make keels on each of the outriggers with reinforced axel holes in each. In my imagination, that would have been a pretty slick 'trailer' idea and one less moving part to worry about on the water.

    This is still fun though



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  21. #91
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion



    That split case .....makes me wonder if you should add a collar type web at the bottom , it would help keep things from parting . big loads ....lol.

    18 mm ( 3/4 inch ) plywood with generous fillet should do it .


  22. #92
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    Evans, Georgia, USA
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    Welcome to my world Narfi!! I can't help it, I had to laugh when I read that your leeboard case broke. I am glad I am not the only one who is hard headed and sometimes I only learn by trial and error. My leebaord broke on the maiden voyage. I was terrified until I got it back to shore. But just like Dave(woxbox) told me, " as these things go, that went well" And... it gave me experience and made me resilient so when I lost my rudder in a 10 knot wind I didn't panic.

    I was wondering about the size of your leebaord and your rudders too. I always felt like they were bigger than they needed to be, but I am just an amateur so I didn't say anything. For my boat, I think I sized my rudder surface area at about 1.5% of the sail surface area. The leebaord I made at about 2% or 3% of the sail surface area. I got those numbers from a book I think, cause I had no idea how big they were supposed to be. If yours are bigger than that, and if you can get away with making them smaller, that will put less stress on your leeboard and rudder cases.

    But definitely keep on plugging away at it!!
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  23. #93
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee.007 View Post
    Welcome to my world Narfi!! I can't help it, I had to laugh when I read that your leeboard case broke.
    hehe, glad I could entertain I have another laugh for you......

    Monday was last day before school started, so even though there wasn't much wind, Landon and I took the freshly repaired boat out for a sail.

    By the time we got out the channel to the main lake, it had pretty much died completely. The sail didn't even rattle.... I had to paddle periodically to keep us pointed in the right direction, and we just hung out enjoying a beautiful evening going nowhere....

    After an hour or so of paddle drifting out, neighbors pulled up in a boat to say hi, and we invited their son to finish the 'sail' with us. Kind of a fun operation, me doing the splits between the canoe and one outrigger holding the gunnel of their boat and then his hand as he stepped on the outrigger and then stabilized him as he walked across the front beam into the canoe. Then I got to realize how old I was trying to go from doing the splits over open water to somehow getting back in the canoe myself.....

    About that time the breeze picked up slightly, and we sailed out to the middle of the lake and then back in around the island and home. We scraped bottom a couple of times, but the fiberglass reinforced leading edge corners were not affected at our slow speeds.

    Back into the bay, the wind died down again, so we paddled back to the ramp.

    All in all, a very slow but enjoyable afternoon.

    Back on the cart and pulled it home, I hit a tree in our driveway with the starboard rudder and ripped it off

    Back to the manufacturer for warentee work....

    Just when I thought I was ready to dig out the plane project again, another boat repair

    No damage to the hull side of the hinge, just tore the rudder side off, so can repair it on the table.




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  24. #94
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    Forgot to show the leeboard case repair progress. Forgot to take an after picture, it's not sanded or painted but functional.

    20210901_171631.jpg

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  25. #95
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by beam reach View Post
    That split case .....makes me wonder if you should add a collar type web at the bottom , it would help keep things from parting . big loads ....lol.

    18 mm ( 3/4 inch ) plywood with generous fillet should do it .

    if needed that will be the next stage of its evolution :P hopefully it wont be needed.

  26. #96
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    May 2016
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by narfiwillem View Post
    Forgot to show the leeboard case repair progress. Forgot to take an after picture, it's not sanded or painted but functional.

    20210904_165223.jpg
    That looks good to me....

    I`m planning an outrigger canoe and plan to use these lashings ala Wharram to attach the rudder.
    Seems simple and strong.


  27. #97
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    That is a real slick and attractive hinge!

  28. #98
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    Default Re: Canoe to Sailing Trimaran conversion

    "Just when I thought I was ready to dig out the plane project again, another boat repair"

    Its a never ending addiction Narfi. I have so many things on my boat that "need" to be fixed. And so many things that ain't broke, that I am going to fix anyway!
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

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