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  1. #1
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Looks great.

    I've been interested in proas for years now. Recently I think I have just detected the slightest trend away from people trying to 'improve' things by wholesale westernisation of rigs, foils etc. and a realisation of just how much is right about the various traditional designs.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    This is based on that very notion. I basically wanted something like my duck punt, but less tiddly.

    31760B14-19F2-4107-93FD-DEE9CD5EBB03.jpg
    To that end, I used a bit of rocker, as smoothly distributed as I could, considering the relatively shallow hull and flat bottom, and an ďasymmetricalĒ hull shape.

    C610C712-6B8E-458F-8B0D-AB4DEEDCB765.jpg
    I tried to keep the flare consistent between the hulls.

    Lots of figuring (metric is so fun to figure volume and displacement in) and lots of borrowing and asking questions.

    The model needs a platform and paint and an oar and some fiddly whatsits, yet. Still.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Yep. Your danged three strips of 16Ē plywood lead to me revisiting this entire idea of a plywood canoe!

    I still think yours looks lovely.

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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    "we are the people, our parents warned us about" (jb)

    steve

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Well, I DO happen to have a 3m spar that would work as a mast...

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    What is the idea behind making the ama that long?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    To be clear, Iím ďdesigningĒ a shunting canoe, or proa. One bigger hull, one smaller hull. Shunting. No foils or boards.

    That much has been determined, and is set in stone.

    It is also, admittedly, not at all the most efficient hull form for the purpose, nor the most efficient boat, likely. Accepted compromises, I call those.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Will you always keep the ama to windward and shunt?
    Elect a clown expect a circus

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    Will you always keep the ama to windward and shunt?
    Yarp. I hope to get away with no paddle, too, except maybe downwind. Iíd like to keep the rig at shroud, sheet, and brailing line, but the theoretical boat would only be for goofy fun beach sailing, and nothing serious nor off soundings.

    Itís a dream replacement for the duck punt, which can be tense sailing.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Yar. My ama is pretty large, as it goes, but I wanted the boat to be stable when and if I sit about on the platform, and to give plenty of buoyancy forward when (if) I head downwind.

    My own version is certainly an imagined hodge podge, but I am extremely fascinated by this simple type of boat and rig. I love the sheeting/shifting sailing I do in the punt, but Iíd like something with a bit more room for error as I age; and if I can cast from the platform?

    Bonus. Haha.

    This has always been planned as a sorta/notreally boat all along; sorta good at a few things, not really good at any one thing.

    As for tacking? Oh I have a few wild ideas for more tacking canoes, and Iím chipping away at helping the youngest build a tacking canoe.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Buoyancy while parked is one, and when potentially used for other than sailing; paddling around the Mastiff, say, or sight fishing from the platform.

    The other is buoyancy where it needs it going downwind, either way. Sort of how trimarans have their amas well forward.

    And, because the successful boat this size that my canoe loosely based on uses one like it, to good effect.

    All guesses.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Buoyancy while parked is one, and when potentially used for other than sailing; paddling around the Mastiff, say, or sight fishing from the platform.

    The other is buoyancy where it needs it going downwind, either way. Sort of how trimarans have their amas well forward.

    And, because the successful boat this size that my canoe loosely based on uses one like it, to good effect.

    All guesses.
    All makes sense I think, especially if you will be singlehanded - there seems to be real advantage in having a way to get weight both aft and to windward. Like in this really impressive example:

    Last edited by Clarkey; 04-24-2021 at 02:00 PM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    The main hull is from two sheets of plywood, as Iím that type savage. I think the other hull, decks, and bulkheads, etc. can be gotten from two more sheets. Well, and some wood, sure.

    Still. Four sheets of 4-5mm ply ainít a terrible bill for such.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    I love pictures of ALL multihulls. They ALL teach SOME lesson.

    Plus, I think theyíre cool looking! That yellow tracker looks lovely.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    2DE7F640-0E6C-47A3-8CBE-5ADBB277774C.jpg
    Platform! Roughly 1.5 x 2.5 meters.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Would be a great boat to spend time on - plenty of comfort with multiple places to sit, stand and lie plus the platform would take a decent tent. Ama looks good for re-boarding after a swim/snorkle too. Really nice.
    Last edited by Clarkey; 04-25-2021 at 02:49 AM.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Have you seen photos of Harmen Hielkema's proa "Toroa"? https://harmenhielkema.blogspot.com
    I have some photos of the boat, but don't know how to post here.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Brown View Post
    Have you seen photos of Harmen Hielkema's proa "Toroa"? https://harmenhielkema.blogspot.com
    I have some photos of the boat, but don't know how to post here.
    Oh, yes. Sheís lovely.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    DD24157A-E00E-4B69-BD76-7864973148B7.jpg
    Or... this is not the drua you are looking for?

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    DD24157A-E00E-4B69-BD76-7864973148B7.jpg
    Or... this is not the drua you are looking for?
    Looks speedy. So, "tell Jabba I've got his money."

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Gives "Better watch your mouth, kid, or you're gonna find yourself floating home" a whole new meaning!

    (p.s. I'm not sure I'd put that guy at the helm of my boat--have you seen him drive?)

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    And, thank you all. I mean, I know Iím not the only one who likes to talk about boats, eh?

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Heís better than Lando!

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Looks okay to me. Larger more buoyant amas give you the option of camping out on that big patio to windward. Yes, it makes it more like a drua.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    BF9B15B8-3C3D-454F-AEAD-D4FB7265F264.jpg
    Just to show the rudimentary rig some more. I DO plan to step the mast to the windward side of the hull. Not on a washer. I do plan to use and adjustable shroud, though, with a “whoopie sling” eye splice; a Brummell eye with a long tail and stopper or back splice. I use them for my hammocks.

    I saw some of the simpler canoes and I want to emulate those rigs; a mast, a sail, a sheet, maybe some brailing lines, and a shroud. Having a bundle of stuff that essentially stays together makes life easier.

    I fully realize it will collapse of backwinded, and be a bit of a bear to shunt without a tackline and etc, etc. I’m no ace of a sailor, anyway, and most of that is across bays on alpine lakes; about 95% reaching. I’m not trying to do anything except capture the pure joy of moving in a boat without doing a thing except steering and sheeting. And, this ain’t intended to do any great crossings or wild sailing adventures. If I ever lost sight of land, I’d likely drop brown trout through the platform slats.

    I did make many concessions to other uses, too, and that’s a primary reason for the big ama. I wanted bouyancy for when sailing and paddling (or sculling...) but also for when we’re just hanging out stomping around on the patio, or basking like lizards after a brisk swim.

    A camping adventure or two aren’t outside the realm of possibility, either, and dang if a proa has a convenient place to set a wee tent up. If it has a buoyant ama...

    I did go to some pains to keep the hull shapes as similar as possible, too, based on videos and interviews and etc. etc. Compromises abound, as they often do with boats, but I think I came up with a pair of hulls that are close cousins, and I hope they behave that way.

    I tried to keep the flare close.

    E0C3ECAF-0EBA-4006-B532-68ED76FA8193.jpg

    42F84E4E-68DD-4745-9471-ED4186BB13A1.jpg

    And, I like this picture of the ama. I don’t know why.
    5F6A69F4-EB24-4292-8273-FB11C1973841.jpg

    Pictures are hard, and especially with two hulls separated. I have spent the past few days staring. A lot. I move her, and shift her, and shunt her. The tape is one of the props I’ve been using to simulate heel, to help see the hull from different angles, to imagine what the hulls would do.

    Why are boats so fun?

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    The whole idea for this canoe has been bouncing around for some time. My Youngest Son has long wanted a ďforth and backĒ boat, not another ďzig zagĒ boat; which description charmed me so much, I was determined we needed to have a shunting boat.

    I have stumbled and bumbled through drawings and models and thinking and rethinking and all that jazz. And reading and watching videos and reading.

    So many things influenced what this idea finally became, and most of it is just my broadened ďknowledgeĒ of the various types of sailing canoes and etc., and how the operate in their various forms and styles.

    The most is copied in small bits and pieces from all the places one borrows (ahem, dashboards, ahem...), and some ideas were hashed over with a few cats what actually sail proas. Many thanks to all who contributed to this fun exercise.

    This type of boat fascinates me no end, and especially so since Iíve been sailing the duck punt.

    Iím happy the large ama and big patio were obvious to everyone else, too! A few of the design requirements were being able to ferry The Mastiff, hosting occasional small squads of divers and swimmers, and serving as a sometime basking platform for My Wife. What a fun way to paddle/scull around for an afternoon, eh? It may even prove tolerable enough for simply paddling without the deck boards on.

    Camping? Donít mind if I do! Haha.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Unlike many, I donít take music or books on board. I can read and listen to music in more comfort at home.

    What I cannot do at home is hear and see the things that live where boats float.

    Just a personal quirk. I never use music when running or cycling or doing any exercise, either.

    I may, however, pack along this bad boy to boil up some tea or coffee...
    1AEF4405-FFB7-4B4F-8BF8-62B2911CBDE2.jpg

  29. #29
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    Default

    This boat got me dreaming!

    Kevin


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    This boat got me dreaming!

    Kevin


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    You DO kinda remind me of Han Solo.

    If you want to make one with the kids, Iíll give you the vital stats.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    What kind of graphic motif would be most appropriate for a boat like this? I really like the boats with bands of symbols, like waves and etc.

    I am not out to emulate, nor offend anyoneís culture, but I donít like plain paintjobs, and I love to embellish things. I do like the red hull, and thought maybe a white bottom (and decks) just for contrast, with a stripe of black graphics below the rubrails?

    I am very thankful for any suggestions, or for anyone telling me to donít do that, if itís a Nono.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    What kind of graphic motif would be most appropriate for a boat like this?
    dancing bears

    If my words did glow with the gold of sunshine
    And my tunes were played on the harp unstrung
    Would you hear my voice come through the music?
    Would you hold it near as it were your own?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    FE26AF95-5BF1-4276-9B91-23E87ABA6A96.jpg
    The original “wild idea” cartoon. A sort of “I wonder...” moment. Really, the end result isn’t too darned far from the original cartoon...

    3742ACA2-C9D1-4ECE-819C-9BE809DB0AAE.jpg
    Hull panel layout shows how much was simply stolen and rehashed. Nothing novel except the combination of shapes, I think; and I don’t even think they are novel.
    I’m sure I dumbed onto a combination that’s been before, and will again.

    ETA: it may not be obvious, but the side panels are NOT identical. Not! One is longer, and one gets a slight trim, to account for the difference in shapes necessary because of the asymmetrical bottom and identical flare either side. Nothing major. Just normal boat-building stuff.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Oh, cheers, and many thanks, but Iíll find one eventually. And, itís all measured, now. The rest is just jiggle sticks and patterns, from here.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Itís too late. You should have paid him when you had the chance!

    This place is often a lot of fun!

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