Unhappy or depressed?

[John Smith]

Where's the line between the two?

I am experiencing the various aches and pains that come with time. Both knees and my right hip hurt with increasing frequency.

I remember climbing high things, but now I hesitate to use the step stool.

Doctor says I'm depressed. I admit this stuff makes me unhappy.

How does one decide where one stops and the other begins?

[JTA]

Trust your doctor

[J.Madison]

I don't know man. It's been a bad year. Anything bring you joy these days? I don't think its unreasonable to not feel to stoked on the state of things, getting older, all of it really. Don't write yourself off yet.

[CWSmith]

Depression is often described as a fog that descends leaving a person unable to respond naturally to their environment. They cannot tell you why they are unhappy, or pessimistic, or unable to be encouraged by even the best news. It's not as simple as unhappiness.

Those of us who don't suffer from it don't fully understand it, but I can tell you that when you live with a depressed person it drains the life out of you. You can never get a natural, normal response from them. The doctors may tell you that it's not contagious, but believe me it is when you live with a depressed person (3.5 decades and counting).

One more thing: don't let your GP prescribe anti-depressants for you. Go to a psychiatrist and do it right. I've seen too many people fail to get the help they need because they did not go to a specialist on this exact subject.

[David G]

Yes, it's been a very bad year for a lot of folks. Which sets people up for a variety of ailments - both physical and psychological.

My sweetie, a chaplain and counselor, tells me depression is not an easy malady to diagnosis until it gets more severe. Too many other things it can be. Around here, she says there seems to be more S.A.D. - a sort of depression resulting from lack of sunshine.

Whatever's going on... good luck! Here's one resource -- https://www.webmd.com/depression/default.htm

[L.W. Baxter]

have you tried self medicating.

i start at 3am with a pot of coffee.

[Tom from Rubicon]

John,
Inability to do what you did at 18 or even 55. Embrace it for what it is. When I was 55, I could still manage a #100 sacks of corn. I will shortly turn 70, and can still manage #50. Chasing 60 year old gals is a non start. A wink and nod.
Tom

[Hugh MacD]

Depression takes many forms. Psychological depression that develops from environmental pressures and chemical depression where your body isn't creating the endorphins that supply the body with the reinforcement your brain uses to stimulate behaviors. Talk to your doctor and see a psychiatrist...sometimes you'll need help from both. My lady has been under treatment for depression for the last 30 years (hope that's not a reflection on me?) and it's taking work from both sides to handle it. I've had my own sessions with a counsellor to help learn how to deal with it myself.

[Henning 4148]

Depression when getting older is not at all rare. Many older people take to drinking.

Getting old - one definition I have heard is, that it means stopping to shape the own future. Put differently, while still shaping the own future, one isn't old. Is there anything you want to do in summer or anything you want to have that needs preparation and work to put in place? If yes - do the preparation and work and put it in place!

Another aspect - colon bacteria polulation seems to have influence on the mood. Getting your colon bacteria population sorted can make a difference.

Beyond that - talk to the professionals!!!

[John Smith]

I am talking to professionals. I'm often asked if it helps, and, not knowing where I'd be if I was not talking to professionals, I have nothing to compare it to.

With Covid, all visits are via computer. I have started talking to a very highly recommended physiatrist. who had me sign a release so she could talk to my Phycologist. Then, when we talked again, she couldn't find her notes.

She gave me a prescription. She gave me a 7 day amount to see if I could take the pill, and if I could, she was gong to order a 90 day supply.

Pharmacy delivered both bottles. I don't know who made that mistake, and the doc will say the pharmacy, and the pharmacy will say the doc.

I could not take the pills. Aside from feeling weird, I couldn't sleep and had the runs.

My wife and I were there to take my mom places and push her around in a wheelchair.

My wife's been immobile for a while, and I have to take here wherever she must go, and I push her around in her wheelchair. I do the marketing, the cooking, etc....This I view in two ways. I've extremely glad I'm able to do all this for her, and I wish to hell it wasn't necessary.

At some point, I'll be immobile, and I'll not have a spouse able to take me places, do the marketing, or push me around, etc.

My state of mind, simply put, is that I don't see anything to look forward to. I can think of a few things I'd like to do after the pandemic, but I don't see us being able to actually do them.

Seems to me that taking a pill won't change any of this. Doc says I'm depressed. She does more talking than asking, and I'm just curious as to where the line is between being unhappy and being depressed, or are they one and the same.

I should add to this both knees are hurting from time to time, and my right hip is getting unhappy. These things will not improve. They add to my realization that my mobility is going to be a problem.

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

I don't struggle with depression, at this point I have it down.
I can't understand why life is so expensive when I'm not even having a good time.
Hang in there John, you're in good company.

[TomF]

John, check your PMs.

[wizbang 13]

ask your doctor if some indica may be right for you.

[amish rob]

ask your doctor if some indica may be right for you.

Blue dye?

[CK 17]

Let’s recap the past year. We’re in a deadly pandemic that’s killed a half a million of us. Science has given us a vaccine an treatments and procedures to mitigate its effects and nearly 40% of us are actively fighting science. We’ve just had successful election to toss out a dictatorial sociopath and his supporters stormed the capital and tried to kill congress. NRA backed terrorists are trying to replace the will of the people with their dystopian racist world view at the point of an assault weapon.

if your not at least a little depressed your not paying attention.

im not a doctor. Ymmv.

[Hugh MacD]

What's been keeping me going as I age and lose abilities is looking for activities that still fall within my capabilities and trying to focus on those. I'm going deaf, so my music is pretty much out and I'm giving my instruments and good audio equipment away, but that frees up time for reading. My knees are shot (bad enough to keep me out of the military in '67 and haven't improved with age) and I can't ski or rock climb anymore but I can still walk and ride a bike, so I try to do those. Sailing (admittedly at a much slower level) and rowing are still within my capabilities for a while so I'll do those while I can. We love gardening so growies are a big part of our entertainment and Murn' likes canning, so we do lot of growies! I guess the point is to not look at what you can't do and focus on what you can. At least for me.

[John Smith]

John, check your PMs.

I did. Thanks.

[John Smith]

ask your doctor if some indica may be right for you.

I seem to be developing little faith in the doctor. Some of that is because of Covid we don't meet in person. Maybe. Some of that is she seems more intent on talking than listening, and listening, I'd think, would be a large part of diagnosing.

It's also 'fun' when a doc tells me to stay at home, as if we go anywhere. We do look forward to one day being able to meet our old friends for lunch again.

Maybe when Covid's under control and things open up, it will help a good bit.

Looking for vaccines on several cites leads to nothing. I'm guessing a month or so from now it will be easier. A couple of nearby pharmacies will be getting vaccines, but they don't yet know when. I'm on the list "queue' of my local hospital, but they don't know when they'll have enough vaccines.

The bilge helps a lot. I'm guessing I'm not the only one who believes so.

[Puttputt]

Take what the doctor says seriously.
As Hugh mentioned, depression comes in many forms.
If it’s a chemical imbalance you may be prescribed an SSRI (selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor) which kicks in after about three weeks. The new ones can be very effective with fewer side effects than earlier generations.
Or it could be a culmination of the aches and pains we seniors experience combined with a loss of meeting up with friends due to the pandemic, a brutal winter and four years of political chaos.
The key, again, is to take your doctor’s advice.

[Gerarddm]

Nortryptiline.

[wizbang 13]

mothers little helpers....
modern miracles messing people up since the 50's
how did we survive without them ?

[Henning 4148]

You have held exposed positions and learned a lot in your life. You should write a book to conserve what you have learned and to pass it on to future generations. Nowadays, you can use self publishing publishing houses, no need to search for a publisher who will publish you.

[John Smith]

You have held exposed positions and learned a lot in your life. You should write a book to conserve what you have learned and to pass it on to future generations. Nowadays, you can use self publishing publishing houses, no need to search for a publisher who will publish you.

I wrote a book at the insistence of one of my supervisors some time back; "Memoirs of a Sleepless Mind; Why are there left-handed water fountains?" I had some fun. Broke even, more or less, money wise. Probably still available on Amazon.

I've had little luck with medication in this regard. Maybe for the same reason I don't drink or do drugs.

I really appreciate the caring, and the comments, but I thought I was asking a simple question. One can be unhappy without being clinically depressed, no?

The part of my life that I'd be inclined to define as depression is I've got to force myself these days to go the the super market. When I'm there, I enjoy being out of the house and walking the aisles

But one can be simply unhappy, can one not? It would also seem 'normal' when one realizes certain aches and pains are arthritic, and they won't improve by themselves over time, to find that depressing.

So where does 'unhappy' end and 'depression' begin? I am getting professional help. whether or not it's helping I can't say, as I have no way of knowing what I'd be feeling like if I wasn't getting it.

Sometimes I think this place is the most helpful.

[David G]

Yes.

[leikec]

When I get depressed I always think of my sister, who died suddenly at 43, leaving behind three little kids. Or her daughter, who died of ALS at 33, or my wife, who died at 55.

I do understand the difficulty of dealing with the aches and pains of aging—it is a real thing and I don’t mean to minimize it. But too many people are robbed by circumstances of having any chance at old age, and I feel it’s up to me to find something to treasure and enjoy every day.

Maya Angelou said it very well. Change your life. But if you can’t change your life then change your attitude. It isn’t always easy, and some days are better than others, but making the effort is the key to the mint.

I intend to build a boat. I’m pretty sure I’m a lousy boatbuilder, because, for one thing, I’ve never built a boat. I’m not a great craftsman, I’m not much of a sailor, and building a boat might be a really stupid thing to do.

But upon reflection, not building a boat doesn’t seem very fun. So on balance, building it seems to be a better choice than watching daytime TV, or robbing a liquor store, even though I must admit that the liquor store idea occasionally has some degree of perceived merit.

And building a boat could result in many profitable hours of sustained swearing. Or moaning, or crying. If I do those things now I just look and sound like a wimpy-assed whiner. But boat building will give those other pursuits a a redefined sense of purpose.

Jeff C

[John Smith]

Thanks to all of you for your responses.

I'll share what I told my psychologist. No matter where I look, I see nothing 'good'. Aside from accepting my aging, there is the other aspects of what's coming. Climate change is still a matter of debate, for example.

I've asked, often, two questions: If it's a total hoax, but we get more efficient cars, better insulated homes, etc., what's the downside? If it's a real thing, but we treat it as a hoax, what's the upside?

I've also posted (complained/wondered) about accepting 'news' giving 'alternative facts' as free speech. I've watched a bit of FOX and Newsmax since the election. These operated under "NEWS", and they are still telling their viewers that climate change is a hoax. They are telling their viewers the event in Texas was because the windmills froze.

They are telling their viewers the election was full of massive fraud.

Republicans did well down ballot. 33 states are trying, and some will likely succeed, to prevent democratic voters from voting. If you live in those states, and you want to vote next election, registering as a Republican might be a wise idea.

Bottom line is enough of our nation is getting 'news' that is simply fraudulent. We accept it as free speech, and it is destroying the nation. It may be helping to destroy the planet if it slows down addressing climate change.

I've gotten nowhere in suggesting that lying for political gain is no different than a car dealer turning back an odometer, which is fraud, and is illegal.

I look at my future, and I look at the future my great grandchildren are apt to have. Hard to be optimistic. In fact, it's impossible to be optimistic.

Unless we treat fraud, libel, slander, and the incitement of violence in politics as the crimes they are, I see little hope for our future.

We have an angry, misinformed, minority taking control of the country.

I do see private companies addressing climate. Ford is, according to "The Circus" rapidly developing electric vehicles.

Texas just had a really nasty problem because of extreme cold. "Global warming" when Gore was preaching, told us it would get cold in places that tend to not get cold. It appears the people in charge of Texas are NOT going to weatherize their system.

As much as we are divided by race and such, we are more divided, and more dangerously divided, by opposing sets of 'facts'. And I don't see that changing until maybe it's too late.

[Paul Pless]

this doesnt sound like depression to me
sounds more like anger and fear and mourning

Thanks to all of you for your responses.

I'll share what I told my psychologist. No matter where I look, I see nothing 'good'. Aside from accepting my aging, there is the other aspects of what's coming. Climate change is still a matter of debate, for example.

I've asked, often, two questions: If it's a total hoax, but we get more efficient cars, better insulated homes, etc., what's the downside? If it's a real thing, but we treat it as a hoax, what's the upside?

I've also posted (complained/wondered) about accepting 'news' giving 'alternative facts' as free speech. I've watched a bit of FOX and Newsmax since the election. These operated under "NEWS", and they are still telling their viewers that climate change is a hoax. They are telling their viewers the event in Texas was because the windmills froze.

They are telling their viewers the election was full of massive fraud.

Republicans did well down ballot. 33 states are trying, and some will likely succeed, to prevent democratic voters from voting. If you live in those states, and you want to vote next election, registering as a Republican might be a wise idea.

Bottom line is enough of our nation is getting 'news' that is simply fraudulent. We accept it as free speech, and it is destroying the nation. It may be helping to destroy the planet if it slows down addressing climate change.

I've gotten nowhere in suggesting that lying for political gain is no different than a car dealer turning back an odometer, which is fraud, and is illegal.

I look at my future, and I look at the future my great grandchildren are apt to have. Hard to be optimistic. In fact, it's impossible to be optimistic.

Unless we treat fraud, libel, slander, and the incitement of violence in politics as the crimes they are, I see little hope for our future.

We have an angry, misinformed, minority taking control of the country.

I do see private companies addressing climate. Ford is, according to "The Circus" rapidly developing electric vehicles.

Texas just had a really nasty problem because of extreme cold. "Global warming" when Gore was preaching, told us it would get cold in places that tend to not get cold. It appears the people in charge of Texas are NOT going to weatherize their system.

As much as we are divided by race and such, we are more divided, and more dangerously divided, by opposing sets of 'facts'. And I don't see that changing until maybe it's too late.

[Paul Pless]

jeff, one could do both. . .
build a boat and rob liquor stores

[SMARTINSEN]

this doesnt sound like depression to me
sounds more like anger and fear and mourning

which can easily lead to depression.

Covid has been rough on everyone's psyche, but we are nearing the end of a long brutal winter, physically, and metaphorically, too. Be of good, or at least better, cheer, John, better days are coming.

[leikec]

jeff, one could do both. . .
build a boat and rob liquor stores

Exactly. The future is what we make of it...

Jeff C

[UCanoe_2]

John, here are the diagnostic criteria for major depression
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...t/drc-20356013
and for dysthymic disorder, a slightly different variation of the illness
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...t/drc-20350935
You may want to review them and decide which, if any, apply to you. However, it's pretty clear that your unhappiness has persisted for quite a while, which meets one of the criteria. Keep in mind that people's signs and symptoms vary over quite a wide range.

Don't give up on the meds because of initial side effects on your first trial. There are many antidepressant medications, and you may need to try a few to find one that is right for you. Diarrhea is a common adverse effect of the SSRIs (selective serotonin uptake reinhibitors), as is weight gain. Some people find that taking an anti-diarrhea medication is helpful while building tolerance to the SSRI. But, again, there are other types of meds that may work better for you.

Have you had a conversation with your doc about the balance of talking vs. listening? It's a customer satisfaction issue, and you deserve to be satisfied. Your doc's behavior may be a reflection of his/her own anxiety about your case, or it may have some other cause not related to you.

It sounds like you have some pretty significant stressors in your life. You have great responsibilities caring for your wife, and also worries about who may care for you if you are incapacitated. COVID has just added to the stressors that everyone must cope with, but you personally may feel more stressed than others.

Psychotherapy should include developing specific solution-focused problem solving strategies to manage your stressors. For example, there may be resources for helping with your wife's care, and for planning for your own care in the event of disability.

Finally, you report experiencing pain in your knees and hips. You may find it helpful to consult with a rheumatologist and/or an orthopedic specialist about treatment for the pain.

Hang in there, John. Even though The Bilge is a wacky place at times, we do care about you. Good luck!

[L.W. Baxter]

i see older folks sometimes feeling like they didn't do enough and now the planet is ruined.

and so they focus on consuming current events as if the very act of becoming informed is the best thing they can do.

from my observations, the very best thing an aging body and mind can do is to become patient and kind. model letting go of desire and worry and anxiety. model being honorable and compassionate.

we can all use reminders to appreciate what we have in our lives, on a personal level. we can all get harangued and oppressed by current affairs anytime we want, no need for grandpa to become a purveyor of angst.

[Bobby of Tulsa]

i see older folks sometimes feeling like they didn't do enough and now the planet is ruined.

and so they focus on consuming current events as if the very act of becoming informed is the best thing they can do.

from my observations, the very best thing an aging body and mind can do is to become patient and kind. model letting go of desire and worry and anxiety. model being honorable and compassionate.

we can all use reminders to appreciate what we have in our lives, on a personal level. we can all get harangued and oppressed by current affairs anytime we want, no need for grandpa to become a purveyor of angst.

This is a truth, don't obsess over thing you really have no control over. Knowledge is good but filling your head with world problems is not making growing old better. Just enjoy what you have the rest will take care of it's self.

[David G]

this doesnt sound like depression to me
sounds more like anger and fear and mourning

And perfectly reasonable responses to the current world.

which can easily lead to depression.

Covid has been rough on everyone's psyche, but we are nearing the end of a long brutal winter, physically, and metaphorically, too. Be of good, or at least better, cheer, John, better days are coming.

Indeed.


Keep working with your therapist. Keep Maya Angelou in mind.

[John Smith]

which can easily lead to depression.

Covid has been rough on everyone's psyche, but we are nearing the end of a long brutal winter, physically, and metaphorically, too. Be of good, or at least better, cheer, John, better days are coming.

What will better days look like, so I'll know them when I see them?

I fear (yes, fear) democrats will let minimum wage kill the entire Covid package.. I'll be of better cheer if I'm wrong.