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Thread: Position for deck cleats, chocks, etc, for 16ft lug yawl?

  1. #1
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    Default Position for deck cleats, chocks, etc, for 16ft lug yawl?

    I'm building a 16ft lug yawl (Campion Apple 16). I'm trying to figure out where to put hardware where it will be most useful. Obviously I'll need things like halyard cleats, etc, but I'm more wondering about deck cleats, mooring cleats, for fenders, tying random things in so they don't float away in case of capsize (e.g., oars, etc). Here's a photo of the seating layout (taken from the foredeck), as I _think_ that may be relevant.

    IMG_7047.jpg

    My thought is to put a big cleat (8"?) on the foredeck (it'll go through into a king plank, so be pretty strong) and chocks on/near the breasthook for anchoring. Then I guess a bow eye on the front, for on the trailer. Then I get more confused -- I think I should put two cleats on either rail (4"? 5"?), near the rear and towards the front, for fenders, tying off at a dock, etc -- but I don't want to get in the way of sitting on the rails (it is a sailing dinghy!). I've also seen cleats on the front, middle of a rear seat -- I'm not sure if those are for hanging the main sheet on? Also, I think the cleats should go _on_ the rails rather than inside -- more likely to catch lines, but won't mess up sitting against the hull. But maybe that's a bad idea?

    Anyone have some boats of roughly the same size that they can share what they have in terms of deck hardware? Or general thoughts? I've tried to search, but haven't found much that seems incredibly relevant!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Position for deck cleats, chocks, etc, for 16ft lug yawl?

    On my little 15ft double ender, I put a big wooden cleat on the fore and aft decks.Single bronze fairlead at the bow for the rode. When single handing, I have a ply piece that clips on the thwart/CB case that has two fairleads and cam cleats, for the jib. The mainsheet is attached to the aft of the CB case with a cam cleat on the bottom block. All reachable in a gust.

    Edit: no jib on yours, so easier.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Texas
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    Default Re: Position for deck cleats, chocks, etc, for 16ft lug yawl?

    The build is looking good. My go to sample boat is the goat island skiff for general placement and rigging questions.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Position for deck cleats, chocks, etc, for 16ft lug yawl?

    Here are a couple of images of Waxwing, a standing lug yawl, with various cleating arrangements visible. Main halyard cleat is on the mast itself, and the small cleats along the inside gunwale forward are useful for setting the mizzen staysail and general lashing in of gear:
    E6407017-E871-4192-B66A-5D0F4C8B49FA.jpg

    Looking aft, there are thumb cleats inside the rail as a turning point for the mainsheet, a large horn cleat on the forward face of the lazaret per Vivier’s plans, and small horn cleats at the aft corners for mizzen staysail sheet (small block on a strop) and setting the boomtent. When anchored, the rode is cleated off to the stem.

    ECC3A014-9BCD-4A34-96BF-6214A1835B00.jpg

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Position for deck cleats, chocks, etc, for 16ft lug yawl?

    Here's what I've done with my latest boat, Don Kurylko's Alaska design (18').

    The two horn cleats on the quarters are for docking--I run a stern line from the near-side cleat, and use the painter as a bow line, which is tied to the bow eye and led aboard to stow in a coil on the foredeck where it's handy (a turn around a small samson post on the foredeck keeps the painter from dropping in the water).

    I also use these horn cleats for sheeting my boomless standing lugsail--a steel ring hooks over the aft horn, and I manually shift it at each tack/gybe.

    DSCN3107.jpg

    These cleats also form the foundation of my line-and-bungee autopilot:



    In short, these 2 cleats are handy in many many ways, at least for my purposes.

    Then, another part of my set-up I really like--I run a small line under the side decks, through holes drilled through the hanging knees (you can see the painter coil hanging from the starboard line):

    gunwale lines.jpg

    This not only gives you places to tie everything in out of the way, but it also provides a handy line to hang fenders from. I use a short line with a small snap link at each end of my fenders, and adjust the length so the fenders hang at the correct height for docking. I find one fender just forward of midships, and one just aft, keep my boat off the dock once the stern and bow lines are tied off tautly (I sail in non-tidal waters, so don't really need slack in my docking lines).

    I've set up my fenders with 2 loops on each snap link so I can clip them in to the gunwale line short, so they hang tight up against the gunwale; or long, so they hang outside the hull at the correct height for docking.

    Anchoring: for anchoring, I tie off the rode to the bow eye. I like the low attachment point--I figure my bow eye is plenty strong, and tying off so low eliminates any need for chocks or fairleads at deck/gunwale level.

    I know lots of people like to lead lines back to the helm--halyard and downhaul, for example. I haven't done that. Mainly that's because I suspect it would lead to a clutter of lines in my boat (I know the captain fairly well, and he's a lazy indolent sort of guy, and prone to slobbishness). It also doesn't seem necessary, because I almost always have my self-steering rigged so I can leave the helm and go forward at any moment.

    So, my halyard cleat is on the starboard side of the mast (yard goes to port). My downhaul runs through a multi-part fiddle block system with a built-in cam cleat. I can adjust this line without going all the way forward, but I do need to be at the forward thwart to get the right angle to work the cam.

    Tom
    Last edited by WI-Tom; 02-24-2021 at 09:52 AM.
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Position for deck cleats, chocks, etc, for 16ft lug yawl?

    Rather than a cleat for the mainsheet, I use a slippery hitch on an oarlock:

    slippery hitch.jpg

    I know some people (very wisely) don't like to leave oarlocks in place to avoid impalement. I am generally sailing alone, and mostly stay seated, but the thought is always in the back of my mind--keeps me careful.

    So, my sheet runs through a snaplink at the clew (minimal friction), with a ratchet block (very nice addition to reduce sheet loads) on a steel ring that gets hooked over the leeward horn cleat:

    sheeting block.jpg

    Probably more than you wanted to see!

    I'm looking forward to seeing your Apple sailing--good luck with the fitting out.

    Tom
    Last edited by WI-Tom; 02-24-2021 at 11:09 AM.
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Position for deck cleats, chocks, etc, for 16ft lug yawl?

    Thanks for all the suggestions, and all the pictures! Very helpful! (Tom -- the pictures in your latest post don't seem to be showing... and definitely not more than I wanted to see).

    I really like the idea of running a line though the frames below the inwales -- that solves the problem that I was wondering about of how to attach stuff "towards the middle" without causing either a backache or a buttache by putting cleats anywhere on the rails. And, it seems like John's Ilur has a version of that line lower down that some of the bags are attached to, which I may copy as well (I've been wondering how to attach the canvas bucket than my anchor is in... might work, at least to try).

    The stern cleats seem useful, and they are out of the way up on the rails (not going to be sitting out that far back), in a way that they might not be further forward. Also, since I'll have a push-pull tiller, I'm _hoping_ that I can incorporate the one on the tiller side into some sort of "autopilot", as long as I get the tiller to run just inside the rail.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Position for deck cleats, chocks, etc, for 16ft lug yawl?

    Small Boats ran an article on my bungee tiller tender, and Chris Cunningham (the editor) was able to modify it for use with a Norwegian push-pull tiller as well. You can see that piece here:

    https://smallboatsmonthly.com/articl...tiller-tender/

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Position for deck cleats, chocks, etc, for 16ft lug yawl?

    You will really like the line run under the rail. The plywood boat equivalent of the old open gunwale seat stringer arrangement. Do it. Horn cleats aft. I find that with a lug rig I work the anchor on the non yard side, so you might not need two fairleads forward. Maybe if you tie up yard side too. I ran my halyard and downhaul cleat to the underside of a seat I have forward. You don't have one but I have seen people use the sides of CB trunks. A bit of a pain when stepping the mast as you need to reeve stuff but I wanted to be able to reach the cleats without going forward. And doing that let me use cam cleats for both.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Position for deck cleats, chocks, etc, for 16ft lug yawl?

    I have arranged my tack downhaul to run down through the foredeck to a turning block lower on the stem, and then back along the CB case to a 3:1 purchase so I can adjust the luff tension without going forward. Works a charm. You can see it in the second phot in post #4 if you look closely. You can also see a bit of one of two waxed cotton satchels I buckle to an open bit of seat riser, one on each side of the cockpit. One holds ship’s knife, some extra cordage and no see-um netting I use at buggy anchorages, the other holds bell, foghorn, binocs and nav tools. Out of the way when not needed, easy to reach if necessary. In the photo below, you can also see a pair of lashing points below the forward thwart on the foremost bulkhead which allow secure fastening of kitchen boxes. There is another on the transom for the hand held vhf.
    0CFEAF57-6ECA-441B-B0BC-F20725EF0A19.jpg

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