Sam F is back

[Sam F]

Hello Sam. Glad to see you back.

Thanks Andrew. That's a nice contrast to some who, I hate to say it, act as if they were traumatized.
I'm only back for a moment - I had a few days down time. That ends tomorrow.
BTW, I'm glad to see you're still participating.

[Sam F]

I can understand why you see them as pagan idols. But how would you propose for the Church to draw in people who are not all in yet, who still cling to their former culture?

The Church has a long history of adopting "pagan" images and relating them to Catholic ones. They did it to convert the original pagans in the Roman Empire. They did it to convert indigenous people during the conquest of the Americas. They did it to convert enslaved Africans in Brasil, and to this day a byproduct of that survives in the "Afro-Brasilian" religions. Why are some people suddenly against the practice?

I approve of the practice - such as when a sacred grove was dedicated to some saint or other. But they didn't plant the damn trees in St. Peter's.
Francis's indifferentism is, to say the least, scandalous.
The best I can say of him is that he's eat up with the dumbass.
Worse, he doesn't seem to have read a book since the 1970's. For crying out loud, how outdated can one guy be?

[Sam F]

... Just more Catholic than the Pope...

That fits at least 1/2 of the laity, quite possibly more.

[Keith Wilson]

No, it means that Pope Francis is about in the center. I'm not at all surprised that Sam doesn't like him.

[Kevin T]

No, it means that Pope Francis is about in the center. I'm not at all surprised that Sam doesn't like him.

My mom (an RC herself) has a term for the likes of our recently returned (temporarily?) correspondent; "Super Catholics." Defined as having lots of pious rhetoric, but actual life practice leaves much to be desired. Usually identified by very little in the way of Christ like behavior in everyday life manifested by a belief that their way of seeing things is the only true way, no room for other's opinions, lots of intolerance and nastiness and quick to insult, often served with a dose of blatant hypocrisy.

Seems to fit

[Sam F]

No, it means that Pope Francis is about in the center. I'm not at all surprised that Sam doesn't like him.

The center? Maybe that is just a reflection of where you are Keith. Frankly, your approval of is essentially a warning flag.
BTW, it's not that "Sam doesn't like* him", its that he's not an effective Pope. He's modus operandi is imprecision. Such a Pope is at best useless. At worst, such vagueness is a license to do anything and sowing confusion among the faithful. That's what we're seeing now.
But we've had bad Popes before, have one now, and will have them again.



* What I like is always irrelevant.

[Sam F]

My mom (an RC herself) has a term for the likes of our recently returned (temporarily?) correspondent; "Super Catholics." Defined as having lots of pious rhetoric, but actual life practice leaves much to be desired. Usually identified by very little in the way of Christ like behavior in everyday life manifested by a belief that their way of seeing things is the only true way, no room for other's opinions, lots of intolerance and nastiness and quick to insult, often served with a dose of blatant hypocrisy.

Seems to fit

You haven't read much in the New Testament have you?

[Kevin T]

You haven't read much in the New Testament have you?

Doesn't seem that you have either with your quick to condescend attitude.

"Turn the other cheek. . .", "do unto others. . .", "whatsoever you do to the least of my brethren you do. . . ", "suffer unto me the little children", "it is easier for a poor man. . ."

I guess the above are just words and completely optional as far as I've witnessed from your keyboard.

[Sam F]

Doesn't seem that you have either with your quick to condescend attitude.

"Turn the other cheek. . .", "do unto others. . .", "whatsoever you do to the least of my brethren you do. . . ", "suffer unto me the little children", "it is easier for a poor man. . ."

I guess the above are just words and completely optional as far as I've witnessed from your keyboard.

Thanks for confirming my suspicion. Anyone who thinks Jesus was just "nice" hasn't read his Bible.

From Luke:
"It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."

Not the nice and tolerant Jesus behavior you to insist I exhibit, is it? But then you don't exhibit it either:

...In days of yore a stoning* would have been appropriate for one who insults or betrays the standards of the community.

I might mention the hypocrisy in that, but Libs and Lefties don't care. Hypocrisy to them is practically a badge of honor.

[George.]

I approve of the practice - such as when a sacred grove was dedicated to some saint or other. But they didn't plant the damn trees in St. Peter's.

People didn't travel back much then. Do you know that Rome was full of indigenous people's representatives at the time? It was done for their benefit. Seems like an effective way to keep them on the path.

BTW, the pachamamas were not in St. Peters. They were in another church.

[TomF]

Sammy, he's still the pope. According to Catholic teaching, the inheritor of St. Peter's authority, and the rightful leader of the Church on earth. Hence due the respect and deference which ought to be shown to Christ's most senior representative here.

Or at least, so you used to think about whoever held the office. Does it not apply to Jesuit popes, who still act like Jesuits?

[George Jung]

Yep. I would think Pope Francis is there by way of Gods will.

Too many are inclined to see 'inspiration' in those / ways that coincide with our beliefs. Horse before carriage.

[David G]

The main thing I notice about this thread is that it seems aimless and meandering.

I put that down to George mis-spelling 'backward' in the thread title. The discussion would have been more focused... even if George missed it from banned camp <G>

[Peerie Maa]

You all forget, Sam claimed to have come to Catholicism late in life. Like many bourn again Christians he tends to the rabid side of belief.

[David G]

This bird's been on my ignore list for years. Welcome back? I was quite happy to have him away.

Two pages, guys? Seriously?

Just so.

[sonofswen]

Yes, Sam..the pope did not go far enough by any stretch in dealing with this>In a 2001 apology, John Paul II called sexual abuse within the Church "a profound contradiction of the teaching and witness of Jesus Christ".
I was raised a Catholic. I will never step into a Catholic chruch ever again.

[Tom Montgomery]

Thanks for confirming my suspicion. Anyone who thinks Jesus was just "nice" hasn't read his Bible.

From Luke:
"It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."

Not the nice and tolerant Jesus behavior you to insist I exhibit, is it?

You've referenced this passage before and made the same claim about the hard-a$$ed Jesus. Evidently this is one of your favorite New Testament passages.

My grandparents were this same type of Roman Catholic. You can have it.

[Glen Longino]

Jesus the Iron Arse...lmao!

[Peerie Maa]

You've referenced this passage before and made the same claim about the hard-a$$ed Jesus. Evidently this is one of your favorite New Testament passages.

My grandparents were this same type of Roman Catholic. You can have it.

I learned that one is wise to check the context of Sam's little quotations.

[Keith Wilson]

You all forget, Sam claimed to have come to Catholicism late in life. Like many born again Christians he tends to the rabid side of belief.

A religious terminology quibble: On this side of the pond at least, 'born-again' has a specific meaning, normally associated with the evangelical fundamentalist wing of Protestantism, rarely with Catholics. John 3:7, 'Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.' - which Catholic doctrine says is baptism. Evangelicals generally think it's something different that happens to you later. If somebody in the US, says they've been 'born again' in a religious context, it's almost certain they're an evangelical Protestant. Sam's a convert to Roman Catholicism, but that's not the same thing.

[Peerie Maa]

A religious terminology quibble: On this side of the pond at least, 'born-again' has a specific meaning, normally associated with the evangelical fundamentalist wing of Protestantism, rarely with Catholics. John 3:7, 'Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.' - which Catholic doctrine says is baptism. Evangelicals generally think it's something different that happens to you later. If somebody in the US, says they've been 'born again' in a religious context, it's almost certain they're an evangelical Protestant. Sam's a convert to Roman Catholicism, but that's not the same thing.

Just so, however "Had an epiphany" does not quite convey the same image, don't you think?

[Keith Wilson]

Just so, however "Had an epiphany" does not quite convey the same image, don't you think?

Yeah, it doesn't sound nearly so dramatic. Is 'born again' used the same way on your side of the water?

[Peerie Maa]

Yeah, it doesn't sound nearly so dramatic. Is 'born again' used the same way on your side of the water?

Pretty much. Not discussed so much now though. Happy Clappy is also falling out of use as well.

[Tom Montgomery]

Sam's a convert to Roman Catholicism...

As was my maternal grandmother. She was dogmatic as well and very tiresome.

[Sam F]

Sam, good to hear from you!!! Hope you and your family are all doing fine.

Hi peb. I belatedly recalled your greeting and dropped in to say thanks and I hope you and the family are doing well too.
We're OK here. Weather is nothing to brag on but nowhere near as bad as Texas has been. I hope you've kept electricity and water!

God bless

[Sam F]

Yes, Sam..the pope did not go far enough by any stretch in dealing with this>In a 2001 apology, John Paul II called sexual abuse within the Church "a profound contradiction of the teaching and witness of Jesus Christ".
...

Then you must not be too fond of Francis either.

[Sam F]

Yep. I would think Pope Francis is there by way of Gods will.

You might be a bit off there George J.
Francis may well be a punishment.

Please read this if you're curious about Bergoglio's shortcomings from an orthodox Catholic perspective:
https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion...-but-not-peter

[Keith Wilson]

'Orthodox Catholic perspective', claiming that the current Pope is not really legitimate, rather a sort of impostor? 'Orthodox Catholic' is an - um - interesting choice of words to describe that idea.

[TomF]

But the authoritative practices codified by the Magisterium over centuries were how Francis became pope, that selection expressing what the orthodox have always considered to be the best shot at understanding the will of God in the matter.

It doesn't matter if you (or various others) disagree with him, Sam. No more than it matters how you agreed or disagreed with any individual among his predecessors.

Either Pope Francis is Pope, and has the authority of St. Peter, the infallibility when speaking ex cathedra etc, or his predecessors didn't either. Maybe God is doing a new thing, through Francis, eh? Not like there isn't Biblical precedent for God doing such.

[Peerie Maa]

Sam F follows his own personal cult of Catholicism, for example unlike the Vatican he denies evolution. I have often wondered what his confessor makes of him.

'Orthodox Catholic perspective', claiming that the current Pope is not really legitimate, rather a sort of impostor? 'Orthodox Catholic' is an - um - interesting choice of words to describe that idea.

I'll See your and raise you

[Tom Montgomery]

.
"It doesn't matter if you (or various others) disagree with him, Sam. No more than it matters how you agreed or disagreed with any individual among his predecessors.

Either Pope Francis is Pope, and has the authority of St. Peter, the infallibility when speaking ex cathedra etc, or his predecessors didn't either. Maybe God is doing a new thing, through Francis, eh? Not like there isn't Biblical precedent for God doing such."

^
Oh my, Tom F. What a concept.

[Peerie Maa]

Frank! Paging Frank!

[Tom Montgomery]

^
NOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooo!!!

[CK 17]

I wonder who’s more popie in the eyes of conservative Catholics, trump or the Pope...

[skuthorp]

Meanwhile, in the theatre that is religion...