More Republican Party Fracturing

[John Smith]

I'm confused. AFAIK, the only assertion I made was that some people think differently than most here & that ignoring them won't make them go away. That's not true?

I (repeating myself) do NOT agree with them. However, I do believe the Dems need to make an attempt to engage them & try to point out how the Dems can better serve them than the folks they are currently voting for. Is this a bad idea?

Your concept is good, but, I believe, the problem is those people are mostly FOX viewers and/or right wing radio listeners and get fed facts that are not true.

[Keith Wilson]

Propaganda is another word for lies.

Not really. The best propaganda consists of carefully-chosen truths, artfully arranged to produce the desired result.

[John Smith]

First step is getting on TV (& not MSNBC, etc.) to explain the lies spread by the right. Pelosi saying they're lies won't do it. Calm, regular folks need to be seen explaining what's being done. It also needs to be done in short, easily digestible episodes.

Question: do those who live in the poorest states KNOW they live in the poorest states?

[Osborne Russell]

Sorry, although the current political divide in the US can be approximated very well as rural-urban, it has very, very little to do with 'resting in the rustic' or whether Hillary Clinton cared about rural folks, much less Diocletian. It also long predates Trump.

"Rural" is what it's all about for Garret's guy. And Garret says reach out to him. To do that, at some point, you have to get with what he means by "rural".

You just don't want to hear about Thoreau.

[David G]

First step is getting on TV (& not MSNBC, etc.) to explain the lies spread by the right. Pelosi saying they're lies won't do it. Calm, regular folks need to be seen explaining what's being done. It also needs to be done in short, easily digestible episodes.

I think such a campaign might be useful.

But it would be best if driven by the following understanding --

[Garret]

"Rural" is what it's all about for Garret's guy. And Garret says reach out to him. To do that, at some point, you have to get with what he means by "rural".

You just don't want to hear about Thoreau.

Ha - you'd get a blank look at the name Thoreau most likely - or maybe get asked if "he was that guy that used to own the store down in Hancock". There are many types of rural & I include small towns in that. This guy lives in a town pop. 800 or 1,000 about 40 miles from our capital (which is 5K - so not a big city). I haven't been to his place, but from his description it's about 3-4 miles from a paved road.

Others I've talked to live in similar towns - though some are bigger. Outside of VT, I've had similar conversations in a 5K pop. bible belt Illinois town surrounded by corns & soybeans, a 1K town in Indiana in the middle of miles of farmland, and an ex-coal mining town on the Ohio-West Virginia border.

None of these people are the rabid Trumpers with F** * Biden flags & the like - they are just regular working folks.

[Osborne Russell]

Ha - you'd get a blank look at the name Thoreau most likely - or maybe get asked if "he was that guy that used to own the store down in Hancock". There are many types of rural & I include small towns in that. This guy lives in a town pop. 800 or 1,000 about 40 miles from our capital (which is 5K - so not a big city). I haven't been to his place, but from his description it's about 3-4 miles from a paved road.

Others I've talked to live in similar towns - though some are bigger. Outside of VT, I've had similar conversations in a 5K pop. bible belt Illinois town surrounded by corns & soybeans, a 1K town in Indiana in the middle of miles of farmland, and an ex-coal mining town on the Ohio-West Virginia border.

None of these people are the rabid Trumpers with F** * Biden flags & the like - they are just regular working folks.

So it comes down to, are they still for Trump, and why? The guy was bound to be a disaster, why didn't they know it? Why did they believe he was better for rural people?

. . . it's about 3-4 miles from a paved road.

That indicates a philosphy. What it is?

[sandtown]

Will stuff like this cause more fracturing of the GOP ??

One can only hope . . .

https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/92122-1

[Garret]

So it comes down to, are they still for Trump, and why? The guy was bound to be a disaster, why didn't they know it? Why did they believe he was better for rural people?

This guy isn't - can't speak for the others as I haven't talked to them. Why didn't they know? Because the mainstream media did not make it clear enough when he ran. They pretty much gave him a pass. Unless one spent time digging, one wouldn't have known.

That indicates a philosophy. What it is?

That they prefer private lives without neighbors jammed up against them? That's about as philosophical as it gets for these folks. Well - me too. My nearest neighbor is about 1/4 mile & I can see their house in the winter - too close for me.

[Osborne Russell]

From somewhere they got the idea that Hillary was anti-rural and Trump was pro-rural.

[David G]

Or...

[Canoeyawl]

From somewhere they got the idea that Hillary was anti-rural and Trump was pro-rural.

From New York City, obviously

[LeeG]

I'm still trying to figure out why a born with a silver spoon in his mouth wealthy Manhattan native would be considered a better representative of "rural America" than a woman from an upper middle class family raised in the suburbs of Chicago.

He’s not a better representative of rural America. He’s a better representative of America’s fractures and hypocrisy. He is a better representative of America’s misuse of power. Trump is the bumper sticker. Eff the gov’t.

[Paul Pless]

Trump is the bumper sticker. Eff the gov’t.

pwn the libs

[sandtown]

He’s not a better representative of rural America. He’s a better representative of America’s fractures and hypocrisy..

Nope, he is a better tool of our corporate overlords.

HRC was/is a corporatist tool as well, but a bit less so.

[Nicholas Carey]

From somewhere they got the idea that Hillary was anti-rural and Trump was pro-rural.

From New York City, obviously

The zip code that receives more farm subsidies than any other is that that compromise Manhattan's upper east side.

[pro tip: not a lot of agriculture goes on in Manhattan]

So, yes, TFG does support "rural Americans" -- just not the ones you think.

[David G]

It really does seem to be boiling down to an activist, ignorant, tribal tRumpKult on one hand... and a disjointed, confused, but increasingly outraged - and building - Anti-tRump movement on the other. Here's another example of the latter ---


Ex-GOP strategist slams Trump for 'assassination instructions' against McConnell: 'It's beyond the pale. Every Republican ought to be able to say so.'

https://www.businessinsider.nl/ex-go...ble-to-say-so/

[willin woodworks]

Along with praising Ginni Thomas in a speech at another of his rallies it seems like TFG is just cracking up. As much as I dislike McConnel and his wife, the blatant racism is way, way out of line even for TFG.
Its really time for the mainstream GOP to start calling him out and condemning this BS.

[Boatbum]

Despite the Rasputin-like staying power of this thread I have seen it as wholly inaccurate. However I must regrettably agree with David G at this point. Trump's Presidential announcement will sow seeds discord and internal fighting. I suspect his candidacy will set the GOP back a decade or longer. I will concede this one. But don't ever quote me - I will deny it and insist my account was hacked.

[Keith Wilson]

I suspect his candidacy will set the GOP back a decade or longer.

From your keyboard to God's ears. That would be an excellent thing for the country, and better yet if the Republicans could be persuaded to abandon Trumpism and reactionary religion, and find their way to something approaching responsible conservatism. On the latter, I'm won't be betting large sums.

[Peerie Maa]

Along with praising Ginni Thomas in a speech at another of his rallies it seems like TFG is just cracking up. As much as I dislike McConnel and his wife, the blatant racism is way, way out of line even for TFG.
Its really time for the mainstream GOP to start calling him out and condemning this BS.

You are assuming that they are not closet racists.

[David G]

Despite the Rasputin-like staying power of this thread I have seen it as wholly inaccurate. However I must regrettably agree with David G at this point. Trump's Presidential announcement will sow seeds discord and internal fighting. I suspect his candidacy will set the GOP back a decade or longer. I will concede this one. But don't ever quote me - I will deny it and insist my account was hacked.

Kudos!! You may have been slow on the uptake, of course, but you are not alone regarding this issue. Or perhaps just reflexively disagreeable toward any hypothesis of mine due to pique from being bluntly corrected on other matters so often. But, again, you wouldn't be alone in such an emotional reaction<G>

But I regard this epiphany of yours as a potential breakthru. Again, kudos!!!

[David G]

You are assuming that they are not closet racists.

Which is a problem... and an error. The fact is, the Republican party - by knowingly and deliberately CHOOSING racism, with The Southern Strategy, has become the de facto party of racists. Some overt, some slippery. But racism is now a feature, not a bug, within the R party.

[Boatbum]

Kudos!! You may have been slow on the uptake, of course, but you are not alone regarding this issue. Or perhaps just reflexively disagreeable toward any hypothesis of mine due to pique from being bluntly corrected on other matters so often. But, again, you wouldn't be alone in such an emotional reaction<G>

But I regard this epiphany of yours as a potential breakthru. Again, kudos!!!

I have no problem with stating I was wrong if that is the case. My change was related to recent news more than a revision of my thinking from earlier posts. There is no emotionality to it. At least not on my side of the debate.

[johnw]

I'm hoping the midterms weakened Trump enough that Republicans will finally have the courage to do some fracturing, instead of returning to slavishly kissing Trump's bum.

[David G]

I have no problem with stating I was wrong if that is the case. My change was related to recent news more than a revision of my thinking from earlier posts. There is no emotionality to it. At least not on my side of the debate.

When you say 'no emotionality'... I cringe. Because what I hear is, 'I have no clue about human, or my own, psychology'.

As regards correcting yourself if you feel it appropriate - just the other day... always trying to be helpful... I encouraged my sweetie to make a habit of embracing her mistakes. I think she appreciated the advice, as she immediately hugged me...

[David G]

I'm hoping the midterms weakened Trump enough that Republicans will finally have the courage to do some fracturing, instead of returning to slavishly kissing Trump's bum.

The small cadre of such R's is growing, it seems. Are they brave, calculating, or just fed up? Dunno. Probably some in each category?

[Boatbum]

When you say 'no emotionality'... I cringe. Because what I hear is, 'I have no clue about human, or my own, psychology'.

As regards correcting yourself if you feel it appropriate - just the other day... always trying to be helpful... I encouraged my sweetie to make a habit of embracing her mistakes. I think she appreciated the advice, as she immediately hugged me...

Hahahaha

[David G]

The fracturing continues --

Herald-Tribune
'The party's on fire': Florida GOP roiled by far right takeover efforts despite 2022 wins


Yet the 2020 election continues to motivate many on the far right, even in Florida, a state Trump carried by three points over President Joe Biden. Trump's national loss to Biden left many in the GOP frustrated and searching for ways to have influence on the political process.

“The party’s on fire, people want to see change and there’s not change happening, and they look at the party as a way to change," said state Sen. Joe Gruters, R-Sarasota, chairman of the Florida Republican Party.

https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/...n/69711382007/

[johnw]

There are a lot of places the Trumpists are taking over the party apparatus. It's sort of like what happened after the Beer Hall Putsch. You fail at your Beer Belly Putsch, and then you start trying to take over the levers of power though more subtle means.

[Gerarddm]

Other than some fringe conservatives susceptible to reason and facts ( RIP, Jamie ), you will never convert die-hard MAGA types with reason and facts and logic because they simply are not wired that way. I continue to wonder why this is so hard to grasp.

I suppose you can keep trying, but surely there must be some Mad Men types out there working for the Democrats who could craft something that might break through to them on their level? Like that bumper sticker that said 'GM is Alive and bin Laden is Dead". Etc.

[David G]

Republican Squabbling Heats Up Over Spending And Strategy

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kevin...b019c6962a45ce

MTG calls the factions 'the five families'. Nice of her to be so honest about the character of the groups involved and today's R party. But I'd also call them the five shards resulting from the fracturing.

[elf]

Reason and logic make authoritarians uncomfortable.

[David G]

When even the WSJ editorial board is ridiculing the divisions of their allies the R's... you know you're doing something wrong --


Wall Street Journal Editorial Board Scorches 'Dimwit' Republicans Tangled In Power Battle

“Too many House Republicans are too dimwitted to understand the uses of power and how to wield it,” the Journal argued. “They’d rather rage against the machine to no useful effect.”

While House Democrats have effectively managed a “seamless” changeover after the elections, while the Republicans “can’t even find the votes to elect a GOP Speaker, much less agree on budget strategy or much of anything else,” according to the Journal.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wall-...b03e2cc500d6d3

[Landrith]

I love the Bilge where we enjoy the security of some things remaining forever constant. A lone gunman assassinated JFK; CO2 is killing the planet; the party of small government and lower taxes is the Fascist party; and because they are the diverse party of the Big Tent with many different factions and no top down control, the Republicans will never be able to win any elections....