More Republican Party Fracturing

[Norman Bernstein]

Are we enjoying the GOP clusterf#$k? If ever there was a justification for schadenfreude, this is it.

[George Jung]

To a point - but, recognizing that we occupy the left side of the ship that's going down.

[David G]

Are we enjoying the GOP clusterf#$k? If ever there was a justification for schadenfreude, this is it.

A little bit... yes. While schadenfreude is a bit of a dead-end, it certainly smells sweet in small doses.

But I'm mostly trying to anticipate what further costs their dysfunction might impose on the nation - to our economy and to our society. And what sort of 'silver-lining' benefits might be plucked from the mess.

As you might have gathered by now... my mission is to realize the potential of our Republic. Which means, these days, reversing the gains the monied interests have made toward perverting it into some sort of New Feudalism. All of my donations - both time and money - are aimed in that direction. Since I have too little of each... I try and maximize the impact by being strategic. Which means understanding (or trying to) what is going on.

I regard that mission as critical to the health of our democracy, our country, and the world really. I backed into it in stumbling fashion at age 16, when I realized what a foul, misguided, horrific endeavor the Vietnam War was. Been working on it - in various forms - ever since, as resources allow.

[TomF]

What I'm loving is that even the FOX and other RWW media have to show this sh$t show as a fully Republican sh$t show. The contrast between the Dems and Reps couldn't be more stark, this only-twice-in-the-life-of-the-Republic failure, once a century ago and the only other time in the buildup to the Civil War, just keeps getting worse. And can't be offloaded onto the Dems.

[Joe (SoCal)]

Do you think we will have a congress by 1/6/23 or those that we’re responsible for the insurrection will continue to block the speaker vote ?

[TomF]

Journalist Seth Abramson argues that what we're seeing on the House floor is the continuation of the insurrection, by other means.

https://post.news/article/2Js458Yi38QvfIxwd5M7zPS40nD

[Garret]

Appropriately enough, the last time (133 votes!) ended up electing a Know-Nothing. History does rhyme...

https://history.house.gov/Historical...n-its-history/

[Rich Jones]

What I'm loving is that even the FOX and other RWW media have to show this sh$t show as a fully Republican sh$t show. The contrast between the Dems and Reps couldn't be more stark, this only-twice-in-the-life-of-the-Republic failure, once a century ago and the only other time in the buildup to the Civil War, just keeps getting worse. And can't be offloaded onto the Dems.

It's all the Dems fault!!!
They had the audacity to stop the red wave this past November.
The red wave would have eliminated any power that the MAGA nutters now have
and McCarthy would now be Speaker.
The Dems are ruining everything for poor Kevin.

[Art Haberland]

It would only take a few votes to put Hakeem Jeffries as Speaker.

[Landrith]

One of the biggest reasons I am a Republican is exactly this House Speaker drama. I never want to be in a top down political party. Like Reagan said, it is the party of the Big Tent. Newt Gingrich could coexist with Ron Paul. I don't want a pre planned unified slate, or a party where someone at the crypt's door could cause all the real leaders to concede before the presidential primary is decided by the party voters.

I don't want the party machine making the trains run on time. Ever!

[JayInOz]

? I don't understand. A group of corrupt, inept, narcissistic, back biting fools unable to unite to perform a simple task, the entire performance being viewed with disbelief and dismay by the rest of the world. You are not ashamed of or embarrassed for your party? And who are these real leaders you speak of? Where are they? JayInOz

[Landrith]

? I don't understand. A group of corrupt, inept, narcissistic, back biting fools unable to unite to perform a simple task, the entire performance being viewed with disbelief and dismay by the rest of the world. You are not ashamed of or embarrassed for your party? And who are these real leaders you speak of? Where are they? JayInOz

You have to remember, we are the conservative right party, not your feared European Fascist Left party. No laws is good laws. More freedom and less rules. Oh, and stop spending tax money or my oatmeal will cost $5 a packet and I will starve.

[David G]

One of the biggest reasons I am a Republican is exactly this House Speaker drama. I never want to be in a top down political party. Like Reagan said, it is the party of the Big Tent. Newt Gingrich could coexist with Ron Paul. I don't want a pre planned unified slate, or a party where someone at the crypt's door could cause all the real leaders to concede before the presidential primary is decided by the party voters.

I don't want the party machine making the trains run on time. Ever!

Vast ignorance, proudly proclaimed. Impressive!!

[Nicholas Carey]

One of the biggest reasons I am a Republican is exactly this House Speaker drama. I never want to be in a top down political party. Like Reagan said, it is the party of the Big Tent. Newt Gingrich could coexist with Ron Paul. I don't want a pre planned unified slate, or a party where someone at the crypt's door could cause all the real leaders to concede before the presidential primary is decided by the party voters.

Not any more. In Trump's GQP, anybody insufficiently nutter, or anybody who doesn't toe the party line is drummed/primaried out (viz, Liz Cheney, et al.)

I don't want the party machine making the trains run on time. Ever!

Seemingly, not a problem you have to worry about. Certainly not in the last 6 or 8 years.

[elf]

Like Reagan said, it is the party of the Big Tent. Newt Gingrich could coexist with Ron Paul.

Big tent, eh?

Looks big enough for a rainfly to cover a newborn kitten to me.

[gypsie]

One of the biggest reasons I am a Republican is exactly this House Speaker drama. I never want to be in a top down political party. Like Reagan said, it is the party of the Big Tent. Newt Gingrich could coexist with Ron Paul. I don't want a pre planned unified slate, or a party where someone at the crypt's door could cause all the real leaders to concede before the presidential primary is decided by the party voters.

I don't want the party machine making the trains run on time. Ever!

I think the hallmark of a mature, confident, stable political party is to be able to express clearly to the electorate what they stand for. The GOP public mayhem means that even inside their party they don't have the processes to sort through the chafe and make the necessary compromises so as to present a picture of stability and reliability.
How is bipartisanship possible with a team who can't agree not only to execute a set piece game plan, but even what game they're playing.

The party machine doesn't get trains running on time. But it does clearly state, in a unified mature voice, that trains running on time is a priority, and we agree that this team of talented individuals are the ones to do it.
Having confidence in a group because they can't agree on simple things is not commendable.

[L.W. Baxter]

One of the biggest reasons I am a Republican is exactly this House Speaker drama. I never want to be in a top down political party. Like Reagan said, it is the party of the Big Tent. Newt Gingrich could coexist with Ron Paul. I don't want a pre planned unified slate, or a party where someone at the crypt's door could cause all the real leaders to concede before the presidential primary is decided by the party voters.

I don't want the party machine making the trains run on time. Ever!

party machine?

these are just people, elected by other people. figuratively speaking, they were, in fact, elected to “make the trains run on time”.

what makes “the trains run on time”, if not people.

[elf]

I don't want the party machine making the trains run on time. Ever!

Thus far making the trains run on time hasn't been a priority of that party at all. In fact the entire focus has been on destroying the trains almost entirely.

I doubt you're even interested in having trains run on time at all. If you were, you'd realize that it can't be done without a committment to financing trains for some other purpose than profit.

[Keith Wilson]

No laws is good laws. More freedom and less rules.

Ladies and gentlemen, here we have a strong candidate for the most ridiculous statement in a bilge post, possibly ever (and there's lots of competition). One can certainly have oppressive laws, or stupid laws, or too many petty bureaucratic laws, but the libertarian ideal is as absurd as the argument that since food can make you fat, and some of it is unhealthy, some poisonous, you should stop eating altogether. The rule of law is as essential to civilized society as food. There are all too many examples of what happens when the rule of law breaks down. 'No laws is good laws', my *ss.

[LeeG]

One of the biggest reasons I am a Republican is exactly this House Speaker drama. I never want to be in a top down political party. Like Reagan said, it is the party of the Big Tent. Newt Gingrich could coexist with Ron Paul. I don't want a pre planned unified slate, or a party where someone at the crypt's door could cause all the real leaders to concede before the presidential primary is decided by the party voters.

I don't want the party machine making the trains run on time. Ever!

not sarcasm?

[Garret]

not sarcasm?

I don't think it was - though maybe? How anyone can call what's usually the "lockstep or you're done" party "big tent" is beyond me. Besides, "big tent" implies a willingness to share & that's certainly not a Rep. trait!

[TomF]

Let's be clear: the current Republican House caucus not only couldn't do anything to priorize getting trains to run on time, they'd be arguing that modern trains are "woke," and are confused about their own pronouns. That thanks to Biden and AOC, locomotives are refusing to come out of the railyards, preferring to dress up like cats and piss dirty diesel fuel into sandboxes.

And all that "repealing laws and regulations" stuff? What, you'd like no standards for the gauge of railroad track? No required maintenance schedules, or safety standards for railbeds or rolling stock? Instead preferring a return to the "good old days" of the various tragedies which prompted those standards to be enacted in the first place?

Get a grip.

[Landrith]

I don't think it was - though maybe? How anyone can call what's usually the "lockstep or you're done" party "big tent" is beyond me. Besides, "big tent" implies a willingness to share & that's certainly not a Rep. trait!

I have to keep coming back to the Bilge. Only the Leftists here really get me.

[TomF]

I have to keep coming back to the Bilge. Only the Leftists here really get me.

With all the respect I can muster, Landrith, you keep speaking in oxymorons. "Leftist Fascists," allegations that the current GOP internal revolt proves they're a "big tent," etc.

We get you, even those of us who aren't "Leftists." You apparently don't "get" you.

[Landrith]

How long has the consensus been in the Bilge that the European Mid Twentieth Century corporate syndicalists (and a few Roosevelt cabinet members) are the Right? 20 years? I have always disagreed (to me they all just Socialists), but I recognize the majority position here.

So I don't actually put "Leftist" and "Fascist" together as parts of the same term in polite Bilge conversation. And when you all go blocking members and advocating censoring posts in Social Media, I don't actually or directly point it out for what it is.

Government is best when it supports a Free and open marketplace of ideas, one of several civil libertarian ideas that those two best buddies Scalia and RBG were always in unison about.

[L.W. Baxter]

this fight over house leadership has nothing to do with an open marketplace of ideas.

[Landrith]

this fight over house leadership has nothing to do with an open marketplace of ideas.

It does when there are two basic party stereo types, Democrats are the party of governing and the Republicans are the party of laissez faire business. The gang of 20 are Yeoman small business friends trying to keep the Big Pharma/Big Tech/ Big War oligarch tool from seamlessly replacing Pelosi.

[L.W. Baxter]

It does when there are two basis party stereo types, Democrats are the party of governing and the Republicans are the party of laissez faire business. The gang of 20 are Yeoman small business friends trying to keep the Big Pharma/Big Tech/ Big War oligarch tool from seamlessly replacing Pelosi.

right. so 200+ republican representatives, elected by their constituents around the country, are oligarch tools. you said it, not me.

my elected representative is suzanne bonamici. she is nobody's tool.

[Keith Wilson]

God help us, he actually believes this stuff.

[Landrith]

We all think there needs to be more bipartisan consensus. What that really means is Congress Reps breaking with their party bloc on lots of issues. Trust me when I type something you know to be true. The Democrats are more disciplined than the Republicans. We in the GOP are like herding cats. So this failure to install a strong GOP speaker and begin passing the donor class's agenda may instinctively be bad politics to Democrats, but it is the beginning of a much better world.

[L.W. Baxter]

We all think there needs to be more bipartisan consensus. What that really means is Congress Reps breaking with their party bloc on lots of issues. Trust me when I type something you know to be true. The Democrats are more disciplined than the Republicans. We are like herding cats. So this failure to install a strong GOP speaker and begin passing the donor class's agenda may instinctively be bad politics to Democrats, but it is the beginning of a much better world.

nnnnope.

not even close.

[TomF]

Interesting, Landrith. And I agree that it may be sloppiness to equate "Conservatism" with "the Right." Whether mid-20thC versions, or the German extremist group which was recently foiled in their attempt at a coup ... which was interested in attempting to restore some version of a German monarchy.

There are a whole range of ideologies which get lumped together as "the Right." People cleaving to various strands of libertarianism (some of whom have for years stood for election to the Federal and other governments) have sympathies with various other folks claiming to be "sovereign citizens." Whose gig is founded on rejecting the legitimacy of the very same governments. Some Rightists cleave to a particular iteration of a Constitution - with some Amendments, prior to others, with this interpretation of wording, rejecting various rulings of the Supreme Courts, etc. And various other Rightists support big corporations, while others hate big corporations and love small business. Some seek a "free market of ideas," while others take steps to ban books and roll back Academic freedom. Some Rightists are devoted to preserving the individual right to practice religion (and to have no religion), while others openly call for theocracies - whether Christian (Boebert!), or Islamic, or Hindu, or etc.

It's a serious hodgepodge. Or if you'd rather, it's a "big tent."

If you think that Gaetz is a champion of the little guy against Big Business, you haven't read anything of his personal or family history. If you think Roy is a champion of the Constitution in demanding that the House holds the globe's economy hostage despite the Constitutional powers of the Senate, Executive, and Judiciary ... you haven't read your Constitution either. If you think Boebert's angling for the little guy - you haven't heard what she's actually said on camera about her demands.

These people are seeking to "conserve" nothing, nor even return as reactionaries to some fictional earlier point in America's history. There's nothing "Conservative" about this trope of the Right. What they're doing is trying to build personal power, personal brands. Even the ones (like MTG) who've decided their interest rests with McCarthy rather than the rebels are couching their grievance in terms of not having their personal wish lists (committee assignments etc.) met, rather than anything to do with the wellbeing of the nation.

And let's not forget - the majority of even the McCarthyites aren't "Conservatives" either. They didn't vote for the rule of law - they obstructed it. They didn't vote for personal accountability for Trump's criminality - they drove their former GOP colleagues who did pursue accountability out of office. They didn't vote for financial stability and prudence - they've to a person voted against the very things which have brought the American deficit down by historic amounts under Biden's tenure, and which prompted job growth at unprecedented levels.

So yeah, today's Right isn't conservative. It isn't even reactionary. It's gleefully anarchistic.

[L.W. Baxter]

there won't be any "passing the donor class's agenda" even with a strong republican speaker.

but a republican party united under an accountable grown up could manage the bare minimum of the governing alloted the house.

[LeeG]

Manufracture! That’s what the rww are doing.

[TomF]

They don't want to do even the bare minimum of governing allotted the House. They want to impede the governing allotted to the House, Senate, and Executive.

By creating sufficient chaos and proving that democratic governance models can't cope with determined anarchists, the ones among them with a brain seek to provide the necessary oomph to have the general population concede to an authoritarian model instead. The ones without brains are just being useful idiots.

It's not like the architects - the Bannon, Stone etc. types - have been cagey about this intention. It's been entirely in the open.