More Republican Party Fracturing

[LeeG]

It’s a Yippyredneck movement.

[TomF]

Gaetz has just now voted for Donald Trump to become Speaker.

https://mobile.twitter.com/therecoun...58104967524355

[L.W. Baxter]

They don't want to do even the bare minimum of governing allotted the House. They want to impede the governing allotted to the House, Senate, and Executive.

By creating sufficient chaos and proving that democratic governance models can't cope with determined anarchists, the ones among them with a brain seek to provide the necessary oomph to have the general population concede to an authoritarian model instead. The ones without brains are just being useful idiots.

It's not like the architects - the Bannon, Stone etc. types - have been cagey about this intention. It's been entirely in the open.

agreed. nothing about the free marketplace of ideas. zip. zero. zilch.

and as for who is in service to "oligarchs", well, that would be those sabotaging democracy.

[LeeG]

Gaetz has just now voted for Donald Trump to become Speaker.

https://mobile.twitter.com/therecoun...58104967524355

He needs a red ball for his nos.

[LeeG]

It’s a Freedom Fracas.

[Landrith]

What if a fringe group staged a sit in at the Capitol and that group just happened to be the majority party in the House of Representatives? This is definitely an Abbie Hoffman moment! Makes me proud to be a Republican.

[David G]

God help us, he actually believes this stuff.

Yes, and he always has.

So much misanthropic misguided silliness... and SO boldly stated. Pathetic.

[gypsie]

What if a fringe group staged a sit in at the Capitol and that group just happened to be the majority party in the House of Representatives? This is definitely an Abbie Hoffman moment! Makes me proud to be a Republican.

The Hoffman analogy, please explain. I cannot see any comparison. The GOP have all the power to sort this out. They, as a block, are choosing to be dysfunctional.

It begs the question, is there anything they'd do to not make you proud?

[Landrith]

The Hoffman analogy, please explain. I cannot see any comparison. The GOP have all the power to sort this out. They, as a block, are choosing to be dysfunctional.

It begs the question, is there anything they'd do to not make you proud?

I was inspired by and agreed with LeeG in #876 "It’s a Yippyredneck movement." In Abbie Hoffman's Yippie days, the establishment was getting its public treasury access through the war budget under President Johnson after killing the Kennedy's. Lets just agree on Sissy Spacek's version of History for our purposes here. In the Bilge it was always a lone gunman. The party machine was threatened by the young dissent and cracked everybody's skulls in the streets outside of the Democratic Convention including Abbie Hoffman's Yippies.. 50 Years Ago: Antiwar Protesters Brutally Attacked in Police Riots at 1968 Democratic Convention Democracy Now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XzdltsTfvE

That is the Party Discipline our fellow bilge mates are instinctively faulting the Republicans for not having.

[David G]

Here's another Republican who's also proud of the Republican's performance. He's spinning so hard he's in danger of drilling down to magma. No idea whether he actually BELIEVES his own bs... but he has the look of one who's capable of massive self-deception --

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/gop-r...b0cbfd55e5d6b0

In Gallagher’s eyes, though, the chaos did not reflect poorly on the Republican Party. Instead, he suggested fault lay with the media documenting the turmoil and Democrats waiting for Republicans to organize themselves so members can be seated and the House can begin its work.



Rep. Mike Gallagher (R-Wis.) rallied Republicans around their dysfunction.VIA ASSOCIATED PRESS

“You might tweet out some more popcorn emojis. I get it. You might write your headlines,” Gallagher said from the floor. “But what I see right now is energy ― a tremendous amount of energy in this Republican caucus who want to do the work of the people.”

Republican and Democratic majorities had, for a century, been able to elect a leader in just one round; the last time the chamber needed to hold multiple rounds was in 1923. While reports prior to the first vote indicated the race for House speaker would be tight, few predicted that it would take so much effort.

One member of Congress, Rep. Ted Lieu (D-Calif.), had posted a photo of himself holding a full bag of popcorn outside his office on Tuesday morning with the caption, “About to go to the House Floor.”

Gallagher said he knew the process “looks messy.”

“But democracy is messy,” he said, prompting a standing ovation from conservatives.

“Democracy is messy by design. By design. And that’s a feature ― not a bug ― of our system,” he said.

Yet even former President Donald Trump seemed to acknowledge that the discord Americans have watched play out is not a good look for Republicans. In a Truth Social post, Trump urged his party: “REPUBLICANS, DO NOT TURN A GREAT TRIUMPH INTO A GIANT & EMBARRASSING DEFEAT.”

[Keith Wilson]

Gallagher reminds me of the incurably optimistic kid who received a pile of horsesh!t for Christmas, and was all excited because his pony surely must be around somewhere.

[Bobcat]

Gallagher is doing his best: it's hard to make chicken salad out of chicken sh!t

The GOP's incompetence and extremism are on full display

[Landrith]

The tragedy of Rep. Kevin McCarthy is that unlike Republican George Santos, McCarthy really did all the things he claims...

[johnw]

Interesting, Landrith. And I agree that it may be sloppiness to equate "Conservatism" with "the Right." Whether mid-20thC versions, or the German extremist group which was recently foiled in their attempt at a coup ... which was interested in attempting to restore some version of a German monarchy.

There are a whole range of ideologies which get lumped together as "the Right." People cleaving to various strands of libertarianism (some of whom have for years stood for election to the Federal and other governments) have sympathies with various other folks claiming to be "sovereign citizens." Whose gig is founded on rejecting the legitimacy of the very same governments. Some Rightists cleave to a particular iteration of a Constitution - with some Amendments, prior to others, with this interpretation of wording, rejecting various rulings of the Supreme Courts, etc. And various other Rightists support big corporations, while others hate big corporations and love small business. Some seek a "free market of ideas," while others take steps to ban books and roll back Academic freedom. Some Rightists are devoted to preserving the individual right to practice religion (and to have no religion), while others openly call for theocracies - whether Christian (Boebert!), or Islamic, or Hindu, or etc.

It's a serious hodgepodge. Or if you'd rather, it's a "big tent."

If you think that Gaetz is a champion of the little guy against Big Business, you haven't read anything of his personal or family history. If you think Roy is a champion of the Constitution in demanding that the House holds the globe's economy hostage despite the Constitutional powers of the Senate, Executive, and Judiciary ... you haven't read your Constitution either. If you think Boebert's angling for the little guy - you haven't heard what she's actually said on camera about her demands.

These people are seeking to "conserve" nothing, nor even return as reactionaries to some fictional earlier point in America's history. There's nothing "Conservative" about this trope of the Right. What they're doing is trying to build personal power, personal brands. Even the ones (like MTG) who've decided their interest rests with McCarthy rather than the rebels are couching their grievance in terms of not having their personal wish lists (committee assignments etc.) met, rather than anything to do with the wellbeing of the nation.

And let's not forget - the majority of even the McCarthyites aren't "Conservatives" either. They didn't vote for the rule of law - they obstructed it. They didn't vote for personal accountability for Trump's criminality - they drove their former GOP colleagues who did pursue accountability out of office. They didn't vote for financial stability and prudence - they've to a person voted against the very things which have brought the American deficit down by historic amounts under Biden's tenure, and which prompted job growth at unprecedented levels.

So yeah, today's Right isn't conservative. It isn't even reactionary. It's gleefully anarchistic.

The terms left and right come from the French legislature, which seated advocates of the king on the right and anti-monarchists on the left. The right still wants a sovereign embodied in a strong man who cannot be brought down by the votes of those who do not represent the people who hold the wealth. This authoritarian tendency dovetails nicely with organic conservatism, which Burke essentially said is the ancestral wisdom of the people embodied in its customs and prejudices. Efforts to define conservatism in terms of policy run up against the fact that the current conservative movement is essentially policy free.

[Landrith]

Foot loose, Speakerless, and Policy Free!

Stolen from Twitter:

A list of horrible things to occur if the House cannot elect a Speaker:

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[sandtown]

Gallagher is doing his best: it's hard to make chicken salad out of chicken sh!t

The GOP's incompetence and extremism are on full display

Lets look at the bright side - as long as the House is paralyzed, they cannot string up Doc Fauci.

[Landrith]

The Republicans failing to vote for Rep. Kevin McCarthy correlate strongly with the Republicans that did not vote for more funding of Ukraine...

[TomF]

Yeah. And among them, Gaetz has made the demand that he wants to be chair of the subcommittee which would consider funding approval for Ukraine going forwards.

Note, we're talking about 10% of the Republican caucus, dictating on one of the most significant foreign policy concerns of our lifetimes, in defiance of the remaining 90% of their own party's House caucus, of the Senate caucus of their own party, the Dems of both House and Senate, and the President.

Those representatives are also predominantly from heavily gerrymandered districts, who wouldn't be elected had the boundaries been drawn more honestly - so they're not even representing the views of a fair proportion of their own state's citizens' views.

You want to see "tyranny?" This is one version of what it looks like.

[David G]

Yeah. And among them, Gaetz has made the demand that he wants to be chair of the subcommittee which would consider funding approval for Ukraine going forwards.

Note, we're talking about 10% of the Republican caucus, dictating on one of the most significant foreign policy concerns of our lifetimes, in defiance of the remaining 90% of their own party's House caucus, of the Senate caucus of their own party, the Dems of both House and Senate, and the President.

Those representatives are also predominantly from heavily gerrymandered districts, who wouldn't be elected had the boundaries been drawn more honestly - so they're not even representing the views of a fair proportion of their own state's citizens' views.

You want to see "tyranny?" This is one version of what it looks like.

^^^^

[Chip-skiff]

The rats are attacking the weasels.



The good part is that they're too busy to kill any chickens.

[Nicholas Carey]

Robert Reich understands things:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...00044503686647

Friends,

As House Republicans convulse over electing their next Speaker, the civil war in the Republican Party has come into the open. But it's not particularly civil and it's not exactly a war. It's the mindless hostility of a political party that's lost any legitimate reason for being.

As of last night (Wednesday), it looks as though Kevin McCarthy has failed a sixth consecutive vote for speaker as deadlocked Republicans slogged through another day without a leader or sworn members.

The Republican MAGA extremists are demanding a rule allowing them to oust McCarthy at any time, should he fail to bow to their demands in the future; another that would allow them to use spending bills to defund particular programs and fire or reduce the pay of federal officials; and a pledge to hold votes on a balanced budget, term limits, and more border security.

I have no idea what will happen or who ultimately will be selected Speaker, but for all practical purposes the Republican Party is dead as a governing institution.

A half century ago, the Republican Party stood for limited government. Its position was not always coherent or logical (it overlooked corporate power and resisted civil rights), but at least had a certain consistency: the GOP could always be relied on to seek lower taxes and oppose Democratic attempts to enlarge the scope of the federal power.

This was, and still is, the position of the establishment Republican Party of the two George Bush's, of its wealthy libertarian funders, and of its Davos-jetting corporate executive donor base. But it has little to do with the real GOP of today.

In the 1990s, Newt Gingrich and Fox News's Roger Ailes ushered the Republican Party into cultural conservatism -- against abortion, contraception, immigration, voting rights, gay marriage, LBGTQ rights, and, eventually, against teaching America's history of racism, trans-gender rights, and, during the pandemic, even against masks. At the same time, the GOP was for police cracking down on crime (especially committed by Black people), teaching religion with public money, for retailers discriminating against LGBTQ people, and for immigration authorities hunting down and deporting undocumented residents.

Gingrich and Ailes smelled the redolent possibilities of cultural conservatism, sensed the power of evangelicals and the anger of rural white America, saw votes in a Republican base that hewed to "traditional values" and, of course, racism.

But this cultural conservatism was so inconsistent with limited government -- in effect, calling on government to intrude in the some of the most intimate aspects of personal life -- that the Party line became confused, its message garbled, its purpose unclear. It thereby opened itself to a third and far angrier phase, centering on resentment and authoritarianism.

The foundation for this third phase had been laid for decades as white Americans without college degrees, mostly hourly-wage workers, experienced a steady drop in income and security. Not only had upward mobility been blocked, but about half their children wouldn’t live as well as they lived. The middle class was shrinking. Good-paying union jobs were disappearing.

Enter Donald Trump, the con-artist with a monstrous talent for exploiting resentment in service of his ego. Trump turned the Republican Party into a white working-class cauldron of bitterness, xenophobia, racism, anti-intellectualism, and anti-science paranoia, while turning himself into the leader of a near religious cult bent on destroying anything in his way -- including American democracy.

A political party is nothing more than a shell -- fundraising machinery, state and local apparatus, and elected officials, along with a dedicated base of volunteers and activists. That base gives fuels a party, giving it purpose and meaning.

Today's Republican base is fueling hate. It is the epicenter of an emerging anti-democracy movement.

What we are seeing played out today in the contest for the speakership of the Republican House involves all of these parts of the current GOP -- what remains of the small-government establishment, the still-fulminating cultural warriors, and the hate-filled authoritarians -- now engaged in hopeless, hapless combat with each other, and with the aspirations and ideals of the rest of America.

The Republican Party will continue in some form. It takes more than nihilistic mindlessness to destroy a party in a winner-take-all system such as we have in the United States.

But the Republican Party in this third phase no longer has a legitimate role to play in our system of self-government. It is over.

[sandtown]

Dan Kildee, US Rep from Meeeeeeeechigan . . . .

"They're the majority and they can't even manage a peaceful transition to themselves."

[robm]

Could this be an opportunity for the Democrats to work with a Republican in some form of compromise? I suggest that if McCarthy gets appointed by enough Democrats voting for him, he might owe them something? This would be a better situation than if he submits to the GOP crazies who won't vote for him unless they can control him (and everything else) completely. I wouldn't trust him further than I could throw him, but at least he would owe favours to a more reasonable group in Congress.

[David G]

Heather McGhee is an economist, organizer, researcher, activist and long-time head of the think-tank Demos.

She recently released a book called 'The Sum of Us' which distills her understanding of the roots of our present dysfunctions. Why, she asks, are we in the U.S. struggling... while there's a whole cadre of countries who are doing better - by most any relevant metric you care to devise. She traces, convincingly, the root of the problem back to our uniquely toxic 'original sin' of racism. And our ongoing embarrassment and denial about it. And how our torqueing our attitudes and policies in a vain attempt to excuse, minimize, dismiss, or avoid that history haunts us to this day.

Haunts us because we allow ourselves to be sold a 'zero-sum' narrative in public policy. The notion that doing something for the least of us, the most vulnerable, will hurt the rest of us. That addressing the ways that POC are overly impacted by our economic choices will somehow pull down whites. Or the middle class. It doesn't, and that's been proven. But it results in bad policy - that not only inordinately impacts the already disadvantaged, it's Bad Policy and so it deleteriously impacts all of us. In so many ways. Her analysis explains, and places in context, everything from R fracturing, to school board unrest, to election conspiracies, to the whiny faux grievances of the RWW's, to the nutsy movement to ban books, to rising student debt, to obviously unqualified KnowNothings being nominated for office, and more.

Discover what she means by the Solidarity Dividend, and how attainable she sees it to be.

I'd call it required reading for anyone interested in promoting a recover from the decades-long downward spiral that 'conservatives' have steered us into. Many agree... a diverse mob including Robert Reich. And Kirkus Reviews, David Axelrod, Chicago Tribune, Oprah, NY Times, Cecile Richards, Booklist, et.al.

If you don't want to read the whole book... I'd suggest, nay - implore, that you borrow a copy and read at least the Introduction and the Afterword.

[sandtown]

I'd call it required reading .

It is indeed a very good book, though my endorsement around here prolly won't help much.

And as she writes, it is not just "zero sum thinking" that causes problems, but also the attitude that if black folks might get a benefit, lets just abolish it for everyone . . .

[Nicholas Carey]

Could this be an opportunity for the Democrats to work with a Republican in some form of compromise? I suggest that if McCarthy gets appointed by enough Democrats voting for him, he might owe them something? This would be a better situation than if he submits to the GOP crazies who won't vote for him unless they can control him (and everything else) completely. I wouldn't trust him further than I could throw him, but at least he would owe favours to a more reasonable group in Congress.

Working across the aisle would be completely antithetical to the GQP manta. Never happen.

[JayInOz]

The family of Brian Sicknick- the policeman killed on January 6th- have launched legal action against trump for wrongful death. This one may very well have legs, and it may well get to court this year. Please please please....

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

A party that can’t even agree on a Speaker are not going to agree on a Budget.

[StevenBauer]

The Republicans failing to vote for Rep. Kevin McCarthy correlate strongly with the Republicans that did not vote for more funding of Ukraine...

Yeah. And among them, Gaetz has made the demand that he wants to be chair of the subcommittee which would consider funding approval for Ukraine going forwards.

Note, we're talking about 10% of the Republican caucus, dictating on one of the most significant foreign policy concerns of our lifetimes, in defiance of the remaining 90% of their own party's House caucus, of the Senate caucus of their own party, the Dems of both House and Senate, and the President.

Those representatives are also predominantly from heavily gerrymandered districts, who wouldn't be elected had the boundaries been drawn more honestly - so they're not even representing the views of a fair proportion of their own state's citizens' views.

You want to see "tyranny?" This is one version of what it looks like.

It’s time the media calls these twenty by their real name - the Sedition Caucus.

[David G]

'Bitter Divide' -- Izzat anything like 'fracturing', you reckon?


Republicans confront bitter divide; no clear path forward


Frustrated Republicans from state capitals to Capitol Hill to the luxury Southern California hotel where RNC members gathered this week are at odds over how to reverse six years of election disappointments. And while there are many strong feelings, there is no consensus even among the fighting factions about the people, policies or political tactics they should embrace.

On one side: a growing number of elected officials eager to move beyond the divisive politics and personality of former President Donald Trump despite having no clear alternative. And on the other: the GOP’s vocal “Make America Great Again” wing, which has no cohesive agenda yet is quick to attack the status quo in both parties.

“It will be extraordinarily difficult, if not near impossible, for Ronna McDaniel to put the pieces back together,” said Republican fundraiser Caroline Wren, a leading voice in the coalition of far-right activists, conservative media leaders and local elected officials across the country who fought and failed to defeat McDaniel. “These people are not just going to forget.”

https://apnews.com/article/politics-...64e1f7e3a094e5

[gypsie]

^The result of decades of building a 'base' made up of one issue voters.
If they back pedal on nut-whackery they scare away voters.

In Australia, where voting is compulsory, this would result in a plethora of political parties for all kinds of niche interests. There might even be a Woodenboat party
In the US it just means people don;t vote.
If the GOP lose 5% of their open-carry and force-kids-to-have-rapist-baby voters, thats enough to spell doom.

How to be relevant to the majority while continuing to attract the nut-whackers...?

[Landrith]

The seditious caucus caved in the end for concessions that preserve our radical fringe goals. I think that is the closest to Australian or UK parliamentary success you can get in the USA. I thought you guys would admire the democracy of it all. The Democrats would not tolerate a coalition. They govern from the top down. Make the trains run on time....

[MushCreek]

Despite a lifetime of voting fairly conservative, the R's have pretty much lost me now. I can't believe that mainline R's are lining up in support of Trump. Were they off of the planet during his four years in office?

[John Smith]

Despite a lifetime of voting fairly conservative, the R's have pretty much lost me now. I can't believe that mainline R's are lining up in support of Trump. Were they off of the planet during his four years in office?

This is not my dad's GOP. Much as so many still love Reagan, it was under his presidency that the party began moving, IMO, in the direction that got it here.

Reagan convinced people he could cut revenue by 30%, cut spending by 10%, and magically balance the budget. He threw more money at defense than they could spend. Remember the $400 hammers? I read an article that said the pentagon could not spend the money it was given, so the computers divided the extra money equally among all purchases. This wouldn't be noticed in a plane, a tank, or such, but in toilet seats, hammers, and screwdrivers it was quite noticeable.

Then the GOP House speakers operated under a rule that if a majority of Republican house members didn't support a bill, it would not get a floor vote.

Along comes Trump who wins the primary, I believe, for two reasons. One is the media couldn't stop giving him air time. Second, the non Trump vote was spread out among 16 other primary candidates.

Meanwhile through all these years lying became accepted as free speech.

[Nicholas Carey]

This is not my dad's GOP. Much as so many still love Reagan, it was under his presidency that the party began moving, IMO, in the direction that got it here.

Reagan convinced people he could cut revenue by 30%, cut spending by 10%, and magically balance the budget.

And did just 1 of the 3 legs (cut tax revenues). Spending increased dramatically, largely due to Defense spending increases. Reagan's administration added more to the national debt than did all the prior presidential administrations combine.

Part of that fault is on the Democratic Party. When Teagan was elected, they rolled over and gave him everything he as,Ed for, despite their having solid majorities in both Houses.

And not one Democratic ever called him on the lie that was his campaign promise.

Then the GOP House speakers operated under a rule that if a majority of Republican house members didn't support a bill, it would not get a floor vote.

This isn't even a rule. It's simply a policy that GQP Speakers have used since the 1990s to limit what bill get to the floor of the House. It's dubbed "The Hastert Rule", after Dennis Hastert, even though it was Newt Gingrich who invented it and put it to use after his Contract ON America.