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Thread: More Republican Party Fracturing

  1. #736
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    I'm confused. AFAIK, the only assertion I made was that some people think differently than most here & that ignoring them won't make them go away. That's not true?

    I (repeating myself) do NOT agree with them. However, I do believe the Dems need to make an attempt to engage them & try to point out how the Dems can better serve them than the folks they are currently voting for. Is this a bad idea?
    Your concept is good, but, I believe, the problem is those people are mostly FOX viewers and/or right wing radio listeners and get fed facts that are not true.
    "Banning books and not guns seems backwards. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

  2. #737
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Propaganda is another word for lies.
    Not really. The best propaganda consists of carefully-chosen truths, artfully arranged to produce the desired result.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  3. #738
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    First step is getting on TV (& not MSNBC, etc.) to explain the lies spread by the right. Pelosi saying they're lies won't do it. Calm, regular folks need to be seen explaining what's being done. It also needs to be done in short, easily digestible episodes.
    Question: do those who live in the poorest states KNOW they live in the poorest states?
    "Banning books and not guns seems backwards. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

  4. #739
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Sorry, although the current political divide in the US can be approximated very well as rural-urban, it has very, very little to do with 'resting in the rustic' or whether Hillary Clinton cared about rural folks, much less Diocletian. It also long predates Trump.
    "Rural" is what it's all about for Garret's guy. And Garret says reach out to him. To do that, at some point, you have to get with what he means by "rural".

    You just don't want to hear about Thoreau.
    If Russia wins, there will be no Ukraine; if Ukraine wins, there will be a new Russia.

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  5. #740
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    First step is getting on TV (& not MSNBC, etc.) to explain the lies spread by the right. Pelosi saying they're lies won't do it. Calm, regular folks need to be seen explaining what's being done. It also needs to be done in short, easily digestible episodes.
    I think such a campaign might be useful.

    But it would be best if driven by the following understanding --

    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  6. #741
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    "Rural" is what it's all about for Garret's guy. And Garret says reach out to him. To do that, at some point, you have to get with what he means by "rural".

    You just don't want to hear about Thoreau.
    Ha - you'd get a blank look at the name Thoreau most likely - or maybe get asked if "he was that guy that used to own the store down in Hancock". There are many types of rural & I include small towns in that. This guy lives in a town pop. 800 or 1,000 about 40 miles from our capital (which is 5K - so not a big city). I haven't been to his place, but from his description it's about 3-4 miles from a paved road.

    Others I've talked to live in similar towns - though some are bigger. Outside of VT, I've had similar conversations in a 5K pop. bible belt Illinois town surrounded by corns & soybeans, a 1K town in Indiana in the middle of miles of farmland, and an ex-coal mining town on the Ohio-West Virginia border.

    None of these people are the rabid Trumpers with F** * Biden flags & the like - they are just regular working folks.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  7. #742
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Ha - you'd get a blank look at the name Thoreau most likely - or maybe get asked if "he was that guy that used to own the store down in Hancock". There are many types of rural & I include small towns in that. This guy lives in a town pop. 800 or 1,000 about 40 miles from our capital (which is 5K - so not a big city). I haven't been to his place, but from his description it's about 3-4 miles from a paved road.

    Others I've talked to live in similar towns - though some are bigger. Outside of VT, I've had similar conversations in a 5K pop. bible belt Illinois town surrounded by corns & soybeans, a 1K town in Indiana in the middle of miles of farmland, and an ex-coal mining town on the Ohio-West Virginia border.

    None of these people are the rabid Trumpers with F** * Biden flags & the like - they are just regular working folks.
    So it comes down to, are they still for Trump, and why? The guy was bound to be a disaster, why didn't they know it? Why did they believe he was better for rural people?

    . . . it's about 3-4 miles from a paved road.
    That indicates a philosphy. What it is?
    If Russia wins, there will be no Ukraine; if Ukraine wins, there will be a new Russia.

    -- Dmytro Kuleba, Foreign Minister of Ukraine

  8. #743
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Will stuff like this cause more fracturing of the GOP ??

    One can only hope . . .

    https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/92122-1

  9. #744
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    So it comes down to, are they still for Trump, and why? The guy was bound to be a disaster, why didn't they know it? Why did they believe he was better for rural people?
    This guy isn't - can't speak for the others as I haven't talked to them. Why didn't they know? Because the mainstream media did not make it clear enough when he ran. They pretty much gave him a pass. Unless one spent time digging, one wouldn't have known.


    That indicates a philosophy. What it is?
    That they prefer private lives without neighbors jammed up against them? That's about as philosophical as it gets for these folks. Well - me too. My nearest neighbor is about 1/4 mile & I can see their house in the winter - too close for me.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  10. #745
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    From somewhere they got the idea that Hillary was anti-rural and Trump was pro-rural.
    If Russia wins, there will be no Ukraine; if Ukraine wins, there will be a new Russia.

    -- Dmytro Kuleba, Foreign Minister of Ukraine

  11. #746
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Or...

    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  12. #747
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    From somewhere they got the idea that Hillary was anti-rural and Trump was pro-rural.
    From New York City, obviously

  13. #748
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    I'm still trying to figure out why a born with a silver spoon in his mouth wealthy Manhattan native would be considered a better representative of "rural America" than a woman from an upper middle class family raised in the suburbs of Chicago.
    He’s not a better representative of rural America. He’s a better representative of America’s fractures and hypocrisy. He is a better representative of America’s misuse of power. Trump is the bumper sticker. Eff the gov’t.

  14. #749
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Trump is the bumper sticker. Eff the gov’t.
    pwn the libs
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  15. #750
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    He’s not a better representative of rural America. He’s a better representative of America’s fractures and hypocrisy..
    Nope, he is a better tool of our corporate overlords.

    HRC was/is a corporatist tool as well, but a bit less so.

  16. #751
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    From somewhere they got the idea that Hillary was anti-rural and Trump was pro-rural.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    From New York City, obviously

    The zip code that receives more farm subsidies than any other is that that compromise Manhattan's upper east side.

    [pro tip: not a lot of agriculture goes on in Manhattan]

    So, yes, TFG does support "rural Americans" -- just not the ones you think.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  17. #752
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    It really does seem to be boiling down to an activist, ignorant, tribal tRumpKult on one hand... and a disjointed, confused, but increasingly outraged - and building - Anti-tRump movement on the other. Here's another example of the latter ---


    Ex-GOP strategist slams Trump for 'assassination instructions' against McConnell: 'It's beyond the pale. Every Republican ought to be able to say so.'

    https://www.businessinsider.nl/ex-go...ble-to-say-so/
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  18. #753
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Along with praising Ginni Thomas in a speech at another of his rallies it seems like TFG is just cracking up. As much as I dislike McConnel and his wife, the blatant racism is way, way out of line even for TFG.
    Its really time for the mainstream GOP to start calling him out and condemning this BS.

  19. #754
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Despite the Rasputin-like staying power of this thread I have seen it as wholly inaccurate. However I must regrettably agree with David G at this point. Trump's Presidential announcement will sow seeds discord and internal fighting. I suspect his candidacy will set the GOP back a decade or longer. I will concede this one. But don't ever quote me - I will deny it and insist my account was hacked.

  20. #755
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    I suspect his candidacy will set the GOP back a decade or longer.
    From your keyboard to God's ears. That would be an excellent thing for the country, and better yet if the Republicans could be persuaded to abandon Trumpism and reactionary religion, and find their way to something approaching responsible conservatism. On the latter, I'm won't be betting large sums.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  21. #756
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by willin woodworks View Post
    Along with praising Ginni Thomas in a speech at another of his rallies it seems like TFG is just cracking up. As much as I dislike McConnel and his wife, the blatant racism is way, way out of line even for TFG.
    Its really time for the mainstream GOP to start calling him out and condemning this BS.
    You are assuming that they are not closet racists.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  22. #757
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    Despite the Rasputin-like staying power of this thread I have seen it as wholly inaccurate. However I must regrettably agree with David G at this point. Trump's Presidential announcement will sow seeds discord and internal fighting. I suspect his candidacy will set the GOP back a decade or longer. I will concede this one. But don't ever quote me - I will deny it and insist my account was hacked.
    Kudos!! You may have been slow on the uptake, of course, but you are not alone regarding this issue. Or perhaps just reflexively disagreeable toward any hypothesis of mine due to pique from being bluntly corrected on other matters so often. But, again, you wouldn't be alone in such an emotional reaction<G>

    But I regard this epiphany of yours as a potential breakthru. Again, kudos!!!
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  23. #758
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    You are assuming that they are not closet racists.
    Which is a problem... and an error. The fact is, the Republican party - by knowingly and deliberately CHOOSING racism, with The Southern Strategy, has become the de facto party of racists. Some overt, some slippery. But racism is now a feature, not a bug, within the R party.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  24. #759
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Kudos!! You may have been slow on the uptake, of course, but you are not alone regarding this issue. Or perhaps just reflexively disagreeable toward any hypothesis of mine due to pique from being bluntly corrected on other matters so often. But, again, you wouldn't be alone in such an emotional reaction<G>

    But I regard this epiphany of yours as a potential breakthru. Again, kudos!!!
    I have no problem with stating I was wrong if that is the case. My change was related to recent news more than a revision of my thinking from earlier posts. There is no emotionality to it. At least not on my side of the debate.

  25. #760
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    I'm hoping the midterms weakened Trump enough that Republicans will finally have the courage to do some fracturing, instead of returning to slavishly kissing Trump's bum.

  26. #761
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    I have no problem with stating I was wrong if that is the case. My change was related to recent news more than a revision of my thinking from earlier posts. There is no emotionality to it. At least not on my side of the debate.
    When you say 'no emotionality'... I cringe. Because what I hear is, 'I have no clue about human, or my own, psychology'.

    As regards correcting yourself if you feel it appropriate - just the other day... always trying to be helpful... I encouraged my sweetie to make a habit of embracing her mistakes. I think she appreciated the advice, as she immediately hugged me...
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  27. #762
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    I'm hoping the midterms weakened Trump enough that Republicans will finally have the courage to do some fracturing, instead of returning to slavishly kissing Trump's bum.
    The small cadre of such R's is growing, it seems. Are they brave, calculating, or just fed up? Dunno. Probably some in each category?
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  28. #763
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    When you say 'no emotionality'... I cringe. Because what I hear is, 'I have no clue about human, or my own, psychology'.

    As regards correcting yourself if you feel it appropriate - just the other day... always trying to be helpful... I encouraged my sweetie to make a habit of embracing her mistakes. I think she appreciated the advice, as she immediately hugged me...
    Hahahaha

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