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Thread: Learning to Deal With Tides

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    I'm kind of hoping to have some control over how exciting, though!

    Tom
    That’s your first lesson on dealing with tidal changes.

    There are lots off apps that Are useful for keeping track of tidal changes at whatever location are you are in to traveling to.
    Besides tides, you also also have to learn about dealing with currents, swells, wave heights, wind, wind direction and the interactions between them that greatly control the excitement you cite above.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Tom, Obviously you are not going to learn all you need to know from notes in a forum.

    A trip to the bookshelf: guides:
    Dorcas Miller, Kayaking the Maine Coast
    Johnson and Smith: The Sea Kayakers Guide to Mount Desert
    Paign: A Seakayakers guide to Mount Desert Island
    Daugherty: Best Sea kayaking guide to New England published by the Appalachian Mountain Club

    For Navigation:
    If you can find a copy, Leonard Eyges, The Practical Pilot: Coastal Navigation by Eye, Intuition and Common Sense
    David Burch: Fundamentals of Kayak Navigation, now it looks like in its 4th edition. Pretty encyclopedic
    Ferrero, Sea Kayak Navigation I don't have a copy but ok reviews and probably a little lighter than the Burch.

    The Small Craft Nav-Aid I reviewed in Small Boat Magazine https://smallboatsmonthly.com/articl...-boat-nav-aid/ is the only plotting tool that you will need since you are not doing big boat stuff. A hand held back packing compass is useful for bearings. If you don't have a compass on your boat one of the removable kayak ones may work.

    I mentioned waterproof charts: there are two companies that publish them: the Waterproof Chart company that has them from Casco to MDI, and Maptech that covers the coast. Maptech's Waterproof Chart book is most valuable, not good for a kayak but great for an open boat. A friend has made an portable "table" for is with a few shock cord strings to hold the book. And NOAA charts are on line and printable. You can print sections as I recall and make up your own waterproof chart book.

    I note that the Small Reach Regatta is planned for July 7. A really great way to start your trip might be to join us then push on afterwards. The folks at Atlantic Boat where we launch are amenable to you leaving a vehicle and trailer there. Lots of us have based trips to the east and west from it.

    The SRR gear list is useful. As far as Anchor Buddies are concerned I have one, I use it some for day hikes but would not leave my boat unattended on it. You do need to pick your spot. And we do have fog which is the biggest reason to think about a hand held GPS. The current information is sketchy enough so it is hard to predict how much you might be thrown off, and navigating when tacking can be a challenge.
    Last edited by Ben Fuller; 01-11-2021 at 11:10 AM.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    I see recommendations for the duckworks beach rollers, which I've been tempted to try myself. Every time I think about buying them I wonder if I couldn't just find a cylindrical fender that would do the same job and also be useful when docked. Any thoughts?

    Tom, I haven't sailed Maine, so take my advice with an ocean of salt. For local trips on Tomales Bay I've been happy with a system SBM calls Tsimshian anchoring.

    James

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    I want to emphatically second Ben's recommendation for "The Practical Pilot: Coastal Navigation by Eye, Intuition and Common Sense" by Leonard Eyges. Especially for oar and sail cruising you need to be able to fully integrate chart, observation, understanding of tides and currents and wave formation, often on the fly with but a brief glance through the fog . . .

    I was teaching many of those methods for years but Eyges was far more organized, had small angle tricks I've now incorporated, really improving my eye, and his explanation of diurnal tides corrected my all too common misunderstanding.

    Piloting by eye matters as sooner or later your battery will run down, the GPS will fall overboard, or sun spots will ruin the system. Even if you bring along a GPS, do your bearings and DED reckoning before you look and the GPS. (It's called DED, not dead, reckoning because it's DEDuced.)

    No place more wonderful than the Maine coast in August.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Tom, I hope you go cruising in Maine, because I would love to read your account!

    I've been boating in Maine in the summer all my life. I'm not sure if these have been mentioned, but the Cruising Guide to the Maine Coast has a wealth of information about the waters including currents/tides, land and islands, and about supplying oneself as needed. It's geared to larger sailboat cruising. I am not familiar with the kayaking oriented titles mentioned above, I have to imagine they also cover these topics and are probably more in line with your sail and oar approach.

    The usual wind in summer along the coast is a light to moderate sea breeze from the southwest that sets up in the afternoon. Very often there is little wind in the morning.

    Each section of the coast has its own flavor. I have spent most of my time in the waters between Cape Small and Muscongus Bay, centered on Boothbay. Each body of water has its own pattern of wind and currents, and these can interact to create quite choppy conditions in the right combination.

    There will be fog. A radar reflector is an excellent idea. Trust your compass, the fog can be very disorienting. I totally get the philosophical bias against a GPS but it can be a godsend when you find yourself suddenly surrounded by fog. In the part of the coast I know best, it can be bright and sunny close to the mainland, with thick fog a half mile out on the water.

    I'm not sure it's been mentioned, but lobster fishing gear is all over the place. The brightly colored buoys are visible enough, but they can end up underwater at high tide, and at least in the Boothbay region, strings of traps are popular, with several traps rigged in a string with a colored buoy on each end. There are often small, hard to see "toggle" buoys in between offering up a nice bit of warp to snag a centerboard or rudder on. Different rigging methods are used in different waters, based on local conditions, preferences, etc.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Quote Originally Posted by pez_leon View Post
    For local trips on Tomales Bay I've been happy with a system SBM calls Tsimshian anchoring.

    James
    I saw this method too but you are the only local who has used it AFAIK. The two problems I see compared to clothesline are that 1) it is an out and done system, not easy to adjust the distance or quickly retrieve and re-deploy the boat, and 2) the anchor has to be dragged the full distance back to shore each time, so some risk of snagging it and a forced swim. Not many rocks in Tomales, so I assume it has always worked for you? Maine I think has rocks.

    Tom - Are you planning to sleep on the boat or ashore? That is the key decision as to how you will anchor.

    One more comment I did not see yet - now you will have wind and current pushing the boat at anchor. That just adds another dimension which could have the boat turning circles during the night.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Tom, if you have a membership to Off Center Harbor, I think there may be some videos about camp cruising the Maine Coast in a Caledonia Yawl.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Might not be so applicable to Maine, but in thick mist it’s not so much wondering where you are as where everyone else is. One technique for small boats is to head where the big boats can’t go, into very shallow water, and follow the shallow depth contour alongshore. You’ll probably be inside fishing gear too. Traditionally done with a lead line, but an inbuilt fishfinder tells you which direction to sail just on depth. The shallow contour is easy to see on your chart colouring. The newest fishfinders also do realtime charting as you pass over it. Probably less usefull between all the tiny islands though.

    Even as ‘a local’ in the Solent, or because I am, I know that dinghy cruising at Springs isn’t worth the agro and chop. I’d only go off at neaps, when everything is easier and less intense. Especially during neap neaps when there is a fraction of water moving. So I’d try to time your visit with neaps.

    Maine lobstering seems pretty intense, you might be needing nav lights if moving around in the dusk or coming in late.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 01-11-2021 at 02:08 PM.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Maine I think has rocks.
    Understated...

    Maine is rocks and when there are no "rocks" present it is ledge, or bedrock, gneiss generally.
    Which is harder than the hinges of hell with razor sharp edges


  10. #45
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Quote Originally Posted by rgthom View Post
    1) it is an out and done system, not easy to adjust the distance or quickly retrieve and re-deploy the boat,
    True. Recently I was sitting ashore at a crackling fire after a great day on the water, drink in hand, contemplating sundown on my beautifully anchored boat, when I realized that my sleeping bag was still in the hold. Worse yet: I had made the exact same mistake on the previous trip.

    Quote Originally Posted by rgthom View Post
    2) the anchor has to be dragged the full distance back to shore each time, so some risk of snagging it and a forced swim.
    Also true. Of course, the anchor is retrieved by the crown, where it is pretty easy to haul in. (I rigged a tripping bar for my Danforth-style with a stainless steel bolt) In sandy areas it works a treat. I would not use this system where I suspected snags.


    Maybe I do need to look into a clothesline setup....

    James

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Quote Originally Posted by David W Pratt View Post
    My first step would be to buy a copy of Eldridge.
    ++1

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    James,

    You can't beat the anchor buddy/surgical tubing for ease or utility. You row ashore, tie off a long bow line to a tree, row back out and drop the anchor and trip line from the transom, row back in against the elastic and tie off wherever you want the boat to spend the night then haul yourself in with the bowline, jump out at the beach and watch the boat get sucked back out to where it will be stretched between the tree and the anchor.

    Left something in the boat? Just haul it in an tie it off while you look for whatever it is then release it and watch it reposition itself perfectly, like magic. The trick is gauging how far out you want it to be. Surgical tubing will stretch to about 3 times it's length. Get too much, you can cleat it to the right length at the transom. After a couple of uses you get an eye for it.

    I've never had the tubing break while mooring, only while retrieving when the anchor was very well set. That's what the trip line is for. Just haul with it.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    You can do the anchor buddy with just 1 trip to shore. Set up anchor - chain - (maybe a length of rode) - anchor buddy - long rode. Drop anchor 100 to 150 feet off shore. Row in, paying out the line. You are not rowing against the pull of the surgical tubing, avoiding potential embarrassing moments stepping ashore (DAMHIKT). Once ashore, pull in against the stretch, tie off to a cleat on the boat, and pay out the line until the boat is far enough out. Tie off the shore side to a tree or sand stake.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    A lot of appealing Maine coves girded by rock have upper reaches so silted that the mud is of seemingly infinite depth. If I was planning to dry out I'd first inspect for rocks to be sure that the boat could settle safely and then, at low tide I'd donn my schlapmutts, which are a bit like a plywood snowshoes and named for the sound they make as we slurp through the muck.

    Beach rollers versus fenders? I used fenders with my dory Leeward for years before proper rollers were available. The problem with fenders is that they don't deflate and roll up easily, take up a lot of space in the boat, and are both too big for a small boat's fender and too small for easy rolling over soft sand or shingle.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    As to potable water on the Maine Coast, you will need to carry it.
    Small Boat Monthly, April 2017 shows a nice bottle.
    Wash your dishes in salt water, then a quick rinse with fresh - saves water.
    There are enough small harbors that with a little planning you can freshen up your ice and refill your water every few days. The guide books can help with info re which services can be found where.
    Cruising east of Mt. Dessert Island means services will be at a greater distance and more aimed at commercial fishermen.

    As to Ben Fuller's notes re paper charts, consider looking at the Frugal Navigator site https://commemify.com/
    He sells "Small Craft Charts". These are printed on both sides and set up to be folded. They come in a sturdy zip lock bag. I am a fan of these.

    Less expensive are the published Chart Books. I am less a fan of these, but my buddy swears by them. They are certainly adequate.

    Don't worry too much re lobster pots. In a small boat they are a smaller problem than in a large boat. If you catch one, simply pulling up your dagger board or center board or rudder will usually clear the offending line. By their nature, the stick protruding from their tops (at least most of their tops) points in the down wind or down current direction showing you which way to pass.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    This was my work sponsored parking spot for about a month back in March 2010. A full cycle of tides where das boot needed to be floating clear at all times. This is the view SE just outside the entrance to Cortes Bay. The clothesline moor is run on a continuous line through a big shackle on the anchor buoy, anchor being set below the low tide mark to reduce drying out in the prevailing SE breeze and led to above the high tide mark. This required about 200' of line plus the anchor rode to handle the full range of tide in that spot, which was a little unforgiving regarding drying out.

    If you were to camp ashore for a few days while exploring the area in lightship mode this might work for you also. With a good pair of high boots it's like having your own private dock! Sounds like another great trip for you; I have very much enjoyed your forays on previous threads. / Jim

    DSC03909.jpg

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Wow! Thanks so much for all the responses--once again, the generosity of this forum can't be beat. Lots and lots of useful information. I really appreciate everyone who has taken time to share their knowledge here, and will be reading and re-reading many times.

    Tom
    Last edited by WI-Tom; 01-13-2021 at 10:40 PM.
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

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  18. #53
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank K. View Post
    As to Ben Fuller's notes re paper charts, consider looking at the Frugal Navigator site https://commemify.com/
    He sells "Small Craft Charts". These are printed on both sides and set up to be folded. They come in a sturdy zip lock bag. I am a fan of these.
    Frank,

    thanks for the link. These small craft charts look very similar to what I use on Georgian Bay.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    For Navigation:
    If you can find a copy, Leonard Eyges, The Practical Pilot: Coastal Navigation by Eye, Intuition and Common Sense
    David Burch: Fundamentals of Kayak Navigation, now it looks like in its 4th edition. Pretty encyclopedic
    Ferrero, Sea Kayak Navigation I don't have a copy but ok reviews and probably a little lighter than the Burch.

    The Small Craft Nav-Aid I reviewed in Small Boat Magazine https://smallboatsmonthly.com/articl...-boat-nav-aid/ is the only plotting tool that you will need since you are not doing big boat stuff. A hand held back packing compass is useful for bearings. If you don't have a compass on your boat one of the removable kayak ones may work.
    Ben,

    thanks. I've read David Burch's "Emergency Navigation" (improvised angle measurements, kamals, etc.) and will check out the other titles you mention. Somehow I missed the NavAid review when SB published it, so thanks for that as well.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

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  20. #55
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    I want to emphatically second Ben's recommendation for "The Practical Pilot: Coastal Navigation by Eye, Intuition and Common Sense" by Leonard Eyges. Especially for oar and sail cruising you need to be able to fully integrate chart, observation, understanding of tides and currents and wave formation, often on the fly with but a brief glance through the fog . . .

    I was teaching many of those methods for years but Eyges was far more organized, had small angle tricks I've now incorporated, really improving my eye, and his explanation of diurnal tides corrected my all too common misunderstanding.

    Piloting by eye matters as sooner or later your battery will run down, the GPS will fall overboard, or sun spots will ruin the system. Even if you bring along a GPS, do your bearings and DED reckoning before you look and the GPS. (It's called DED, not dead, reckoning because it's DEDuced.)

    No place more wonderful than the Maine coast in August.
    I'll be very interested to see how my piloting holds up once tidal currents become a factor. It's very simple on the Great Lakes, eyeball stuff for the most part with an occasional compass bearing, but I suspect I'll have to be a bit more careful with my ded reckoning on the coast. I'm looking forward to being pushed a bit in the navigation skills department.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

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  21. #56
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    Tom,

    Off the bat...things going through my head in no particular order...i havn't sailed in maine but do sail on very tidal water in the Solent (it runs upto 5-6 knots each way). Regarding tidal sailing, and the Solent is more extreme han most I think...

    1. Is it neaps or springs. Additionally with planetary affects you also have extra neaps and extra springs at periodic times. This affects total water height or not up the beach or mudflats but also the sheer volume of water moving and the current speeds and then knock on effect of that on wind over tide conditions etc. You can either work this all out of make use of sophisticated tidal predictions and graphs that are available.

    2. If you're doing any beaching you obviously don't want to be beaching at peak springs and subsequent tides being lower.

    3. You're looking at using the tidal currents to increase your speed over the ground. That might be as much as a 5-6 knot extra push giving you 10 knots! You might have to time leaving a dock at slack or whenever to make sure you're in the escalator at the right time and place. The currents are strongest in the deeper water and less at the edges. It also turns at the edges first and you can back eddies at the edges which yoou have to use going counterflow. Look at your chart and see where the water flows - where the water flowed before the sea levels rose before the sea levels rose after the thawing in the last ice age is where the water is still moving mainly - the shallower areas at the side - what was once the river banks - is where its slacker.

    4. The tidal current can be move out of an area and into another when it should technically be dropping making it rise again or have a long high water stand. Physical affects of topogrpahy does this. Even into rivers the tide can be leaving at the beach end and trying to come in at the sea end in the Solent when its funneling in on an ebb.

    5. The tide current with the wind makes it flatter. Wind against tide creates unpeasant chop that you want to avoid.

    6. Uopwind in a good blow at 6 knots boat speed your VMG is much lower maybe 4 knots. You can't make way against a 4 knot tide in a small boat unless you're right out at the edges where the current is less. Beware low winds...downwind moving at 1 knot you may be in 1 knot current and have no pressure on the sails and then no steerage. Same to windward, you might be sailing then fall off and the current takes you downwind at the the same speed as the wind and you've got no steerage. You can in a sail and oar boat obviously crack the oars out and get moving.

    7. The tidal movement will make accleration zones around a promontory where the current is whipping past. The wind does the same thing. If you're in wind againt tide it will be especially bad in this local region. You'll also get pressure waves - surface chop - where there is alot of water movement especially outside river entrances where its often shallower. Water conditions are worse here always.

    8. The clean water in a river will be colder, the water leaving warmer. It sometimes affects the fishing. Te fish tend to sit where the back eddies around a promotory so they don't have to expend energy. The shoreline fish tend to come in on a rising tide and nibble at whats on the beach as it gets covered.

    9. Some places the water gets squeezed are termed tidal gates and you can't sail a boat easily against the contra flow especially a small boat. Conditions will also be rough and the water eddies so much it spins the boats round a bit. These have to be timed very carefuly for sack and preferably neaps. You get back eddies and contraflows in some big tidal gates and have to look at the water carefully - sometimes you'll see a water line between two different moving bodies of water.

    10. You might have to time a day so that you're able to actually get in the river entrance on the flood otherwise the tide might take you down there but you can't get in because of a very strong ebb through the river entrance. PLaces with a large inner harbour and a narrow entrance are like this.

    Some places have more or less tidal currents but you'll sometimes look at the wind speed and direction, the currents and the time available and there's really only one place you can go safely or sometimes none at all! Its all a question of timing and figuring out predicted boat speed in the conditions and working backwards to figuring out the best and only time to leave.

    11. Consider the weather. High pressure will reduce water heights and movement. Low pressure the opposite. Also low pressures can push water ahead of them creating more water flow and very high tides, though you shouldn't be out in that in a small boat.

    12. You really have to figure the cross tide over the time you're moving if you going accross the current any distance or at least know on basic dead reckoning what angle to be pointing your boat at. This gets more critical the slower you're going and the faster the current. You may need to sit down with some vectors drawn to know what direction you need to point at (plus add your compass deviation card and local declination to be fully accurate). It will be usuefull to know rough boats speeds you get on different points. Add to this the affect of apparent wind on the sails due to current. A GPS cross track error can indicate how far sideways off a straightline your on. You should curve it though as you run through a tidal stream. Its good to know your boat speed and vmg. It's unlikely you'll have actual speed through the water without an impeller log but that can allow you to actually work out current speeds.

    13. The current is its moving at say 5 knots and it's taking you into the wind of 15 knots plus your doing 5 knots throught the water, you now looking at 25 knots apparent wind speed with wind over tide conditons...back onto a run at 5 knots and you've got 5 knots on the sails. So you need to consider apparent wind speeds for you're sail plan.

    14. Most people day sailing or out in powerboats are generally more around either side of high water. At low water slack you generally get the place to yourself.

    On the subject of Maine...never been there but would love to. I believe mist is an issue - I'd want a radar relfector if I didn't have tin foil in the mast. Basic foghorn. I think I'd also carry a decent strobe. Both for the boat and on my lifejacket over a drysuit. I've been in thick fog a few times and it's pretty awfull. Maybe orange spar ends. The lobster boats I'm sure will have radar but they need to be able to see you in time at the speeds they run at which is high I believe. Also run an anchor light. Watch for lobster pots, usually off the main streams in the Solent but I don't know how well flagged buoyed they are in Maine. Probably half arsed like most fisherman.

    I wrote up a day sailing sheet once incorporating all the factors for consideration so I had it all pre thought in case I had to bailout on a day when things weren'y going to plan and I had the info written down in case I forgot. I'll dig it out for you if you want. A few years ago it was looking like everyone was going to have to carry a passage plan even for short distances but it seemed to fall off the radar.

    Re anchoring on the windward side of a river bank you refloat earlier but the anchor is bedded in mud falling away and is less secure in high winds (not really a factor in a small boat though with low windage). On the leeward river bank the opposite. Also consider scope with large tidal ranges and you'll need some decent big fenders and long mooring ropes if you're going into harbours with alot of tidal range. As far as possible check what's under you - some harbours have old jetty warfs and unpleasant rock and metal spikes still in the ground from years past that you don't want to dry out on.\

    Being sail and oar - rowing straight upwind at 4-5 knots is eqivalent to a 40ft'er on full chat tacking to windward. That ability could get you out of a problem now and again. If yiour tacking upwind on the edges out of a stream, its likely the wind angle makes ones side better - a longer alongshore tack. This is the better side to head for, and its better to have to the boat set up for this alongshore tack with boom position (for luggers etc) or weight. For getting home in the Solent against tide its better local boats here are good on port tack for instance. Tidal areas favour boats that can point high. You've got a long waterline for a small boat which with plenty of speed will also cut exposure times to cross tide compared to a smaller dinghy.
    This post alone is well worth the price of admission! Thanks so much. Trust a Solent sailor to know a bit about tides, I guess.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

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  22. #57
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Quote Originally Posted by rgthom View Post
    Tides are much too scary Tom, stay on your lakes



    Sorry, couldn't resist.
    No worries! I appreciate the cautionary advice. All I have to deal with where I sail is a little lake chop now and again:





    Tom
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    www.tompamperin.com

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    A few people have suggested radar reflectors. What do you use for that?

    And what about fog sound signals?

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    You should carry at least the minimum required by the Coastguard - both for safety and because they may "board" you and check - I've been stopped by both US and Canadian Coastguards (and passed inspection.) See https://www.boatsafe.com/us-coast-gu...ational-boats/ or Google US Boating Required Equipment. I don't believe radar reflectors are listed, but you should carry one, I bought mine right after that foggy crossing I mentioned earlier. Get one that takes apart for storage and get the biggest one you can store, efficiency increased geometrically (or something) with size. Browse some cruising sites and do some thinking about what might be useful. Don't go crazy adding stuff to the list but if it can be easily carried and won't break the bank, why not?

    You'll find you become comfortable very quickly, you will gain experience starting on day one so pick a nice day to start and a reasonable destination. Leave the really hard stuff to at least day three when you're an old hand.

    Jamie

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Radar reflectors: If your budget can stand it one of the tubular ones is the best on a little boat. Can live on the auxilary halyard which you can rig through the head of your sail.

    Fog horns: people like the canisters and they are fine until they aren't. I also carry one of the horizontal flute type, small compact and doesn't rust. And I have a really loud whistle on my pfd.

    Speaking of PFD's I use a kayaking type that has lots of pockets but I also carry a waist pack which if you end up with a long calm rowing day you will appreciate.I find rowing with the inflatable work vest style hard because my hands sometimes get close to my chest on the end of the stroke and things foul up.

    Water: kayaking we used to figure a gallon a day. Sailing maybe not so much. And Maine Islands are seriously LNT so you need some kind of crapper.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Not Maine, but i enjoyed it.

    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  27. #62
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    Apr 2005
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  28. #63
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    Charleston, SC USA
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Lake sailing is boring compared to sailing or sea kayaking on the coastal and open ocean waters. Re radar reflectors. A necessity. An effective one can be made of crumpled tin foil in a 2-3” pvc tube and affixed to the top of the mast.

    Another lesson. Stay out of shipping channels in harbors. If a container ship is sounding it’s horn, it’s too late to get out of the way. When you must cross, it’s like crossing a street in first grade. Wait until you don’t see anything coming in the distance then cross at a right angle.
    A ship you see is traveling faster than is apparent to than you perceive right on the the water. The Coast Guard takes a dim view of picking up debris and bodies from the water. That if the ship’s captain even realizes he ran over you.

    Also if a ship is passing wait until it is a 1/2 mile past you before crossing its wake. Those ships pull one hell of a wake. The water is normal for the conditions then all of a sudden all hell breaks loose and 6’ waves are surfacing from the deep all around you.

    Enjoy the learning experience Wi-Tom. It’s like skiing the black slopes vs the green slopes.

  29. #64
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    Aug 2016
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    Queens, NY
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    281

    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    battery powered flare might be a good option for the coast guard required visual distress signal

    https://www.sailmagazine.com/diy/ele...s-for-cruisers

  30. #65
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    Apr 2005
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    Hills of Vermont, USA
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    38,081

    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Quote Originally Posted by Arlc View Post
    Lake sailing is boring compared to sailing or sea kayaking on the coastal and open ocean waters. Re radar reflectors. A necessity. An effective one can be made of crumpled tin foil in a 2-3” pvc tube and affixed to the top of the mast.

    Another lesson. Stay out of shipping channels in harbors. If a container ship is sounding it’s horn, it’s too late to get out of the way. When you must cross, it’s like crossing a street in first grade. Wait until you don’t see anything coming in the distance then cross at a right angle.
    A ship you see is traveling faster than is apparent to than you perceive right on the the water. The Coast Guard takes a dim view of picking up debris and bodies from the water. That if the ship’s captain even realizes he ran over you.

    Also if a ship is passing wait until it is a 1/2 mile past you before crossing its wake. Those ships pull one hell of a wake. The water is normal for the conditions then all of a sudden all hell breaks loose and 6’ waves are surfacing from the deep all around you.

    Enjoy the learning experience Wi-Tom. It’s like skiing the black slopes vs the green slopes.
    It does depend on the lake. He's been sailing on the Great Lakes & they can get some serious weather, seas, and ship traffic. Edmund Fitzgerald?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  31. #66
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    Apr 2010
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    Fairfield, CA
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    If we are now discussing traffic, a site I like for planning is MarineTraffic. Use the density plots for an area to see where the boats all go, and find the spots where they do not. If you pay for an upgrade, you can plot each type of traffic separately. Plotting just the big cargo vessels shows the shipping lanes, ferries shows the ferry routes, etc. It uses AIS data, so small fishing boats, jetskis and the like are not included.


  32. #67
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
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    Cushing, Maine
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    4,068

    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Quote Originally Posted by rgthom View Post
    If we are now discussing traffic, a site I like for planning is MarineTraffic. Use the density plots for an area to see where the boats all go, and find the spots where they do not. If you pay for an upgrade, you can plot each type of traffic separately. Plotting just the big cargo vessels shows the shipping lanes, ferries shows the ferry routes, etc. It uses AIS data, so small fishing boats, jetskis and the like are not included.

    This is pretty cool. Taking it apart: the high density traffic on the west side of Pen Bay would be merchant vessels up and down to Searsport. Ferries in and out of Rockand and Lincolnville. Larger fishing vessels into Rockland. Then the rest of the red would be fancy AIS carrying yachts, as well as the Maine windjammer fleet. The general green patterns would be yachts and lobsterboats with AIS, but mostly yachts. Cruise shipa would contribute to some of the red, especially around MDI. The only real lanes are the PenBay ferries and the large merchant vessels up to Searsport, and these are on the Pen Bay chart.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  33. #68
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    Dec 2015
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    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Well from that it appears nobody has ever been to Surry Maine. I thought it must be a complete s**t hole. So I took a look. It appears to be sail and oar jihadi gold up there and you're clearly going to get the place to yourself...

    The most civilised little dock I've ever seen. These must be nice people.


    And it's got dockside food!



    And a bench for quiet contemplation of that sheerline and mast rake.



    Ahh ha! I see the kryptonite of big powerboaters and keel boats. So eat fast, or bring some long mooring rope and eat really slow! If you're starting to stink that weed should mask it.

    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 01-13-2021 at 06:25 AM.

  34. #69
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    140

    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    One observation I haven't seem mentioned yet. When the tide is running astern at a faster rate than you're sailing, you will lose steerage. Often happens when you enter narrow passages or races. Your craft is rowable, but be ready to drop sail and get out the oars if need be. Happened to me once in the south race at Shelter Island. Of course my inboard was not reliable and I entered the race running at 2-3 knots under sail and quickly started being pushed by a 5-6 knot tide, lost all steerage, couldn't even round up. Ferry was crossing and it got uncomfortably close. I learned that lesson young and have never forgotten.

  35. #70
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    Charleston, SC USA
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    200

    Default Re: Learning to Deal With Tides

    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    One observation I haven't seem mentioned yet. When the tide is running astern at a faster rate than you're sailing, you will lose steerage. Often happens when you enter narrow passages or races. Your craft is rowable, but be ready to drop sail and get out the oars if need be. Happened to me once in the south race at Shelter Island. Of course my inboard was not reliable and I entered the race running at 2-3 knots under sail and quickly started being pushed by a 5-6 knot tide, lost all steerage, couldn't even round up. Ferry was crossing and it got uncomfortably close. I learned that lesson young and have never forgotten.
    Add when the tide is running astern and the wind is from opposite direction, it builds really nasty, steep choppy waves with small swell periods. Wherever you go WI-Tom, I’d try to hook up with a local for a couple of days to gain some local knowledge even if you have to pay a guide before you go out on your own. It would be well worth the $$. After all, you don’t know what you don’t know. It’s analogous to real estate, “local knowledge, local knowledge, local knowledge”.

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