First loss of the season

[mmd]

Reports of an inshore scallop boat sunk off Digby overnight. Search is on-going for survivors. Westerly gales with freezing spray for the past twelve hours doesn't bode well. Visibility is low due to snow flurries. The boat is likely a 50-foot boat based on a big lobster boat hull, carrying four to six crew.

Nasty time of year to be trying to make a living out on the water.

In other local marine-disaster news, a lobster boat ran aground on Yarmouth Bar last night while returning to port. This is probably a source of embarrassment rather than life-threatening, but hopefully the boat isn't damaged too much. The winds have been westerly for the past few days, and this places the Bar in the lee of Cape Forchu, so likely not much wave action on the boat. It is high tide right now, and the sixteen-foot tide will lift any boat that isn't completely porous, so I expect that she is safe on the slip at the Bar by now.

[AlanMc]

that doesn't sound good at all. all i can do is tip my hat to those boat crews, i don't have what it takes to do what they do.

[mmd]

Just learned from a friend who knows people on the boat that there were eight men on board, most young and most with young families. It is never a good time to suffer a loss at sea, but ten days before Christmas? My heart goes out to the wives who have to tell their children that Daddy is not coming home and that Christmas is likely cancelled this year.

[isla]

Just learned from a friend who knows people on the boat that there were eight men on board, most young and most with young families. It is never a good time to suffer a loss at sea, but ten days before Christmas? My heart goes out to the wives who have to tell their children that Daddy is not coming home and that Christmas is likely cancelled this year.

Ditto that.

[CWSmith]

It is worth reminding all of us that the people who work to bring us that lovely seafood are pursuing a dangerous career. I gather there is little hope for them at this time? I pray for their families.

[Steve McMahon]

Damn. I just saw the story on the news. Was it a Digby boat mmd? The Bay of Fundy can be cruel.

[mmd]

CWSmith: Conditions at the moment are 35 knot winds, 6-to-10-foot waves (waves in the Bay of Fundy are short and steep), freezing spray, with air temp just below freezing and falling, and poor visibility due to snow in the air. The odds are pretty bad for anybody in the water.

Steve: Yes, a scallop boat out of Digby. I don't know which one, yet. Search & Rescue announced that "Debris was spotted from the air at 0822 AST and subsequent reports found 2 lift rafts washed ashore. No one was onboard." Names not released yet.

[TomF]

Oh good lord. That's awful news, Michael. My heart goes out to them all.

[CWSmith]

CWSmith: Conditions at the moment are 35 knot winds, 6-to-10-foot waves (waves in the Bay of Fundy are short and steep), freezing spray, with air temp just below freezing and falling, and poor visibility due to snow in the air. The odds are pretty bad for anybody in the water.

So, they likely rolled on one of those waves, or what do you think happened?

[David G]

Can't tell you how much I hate to hear news like this. It happens on our coast as well. I've been part of search parties. I even helped pull one of my childhood best buddies body out of the Columbia. And it's hugely saddening no matter who or where.

[mmd]

So, they likely rolled on one of those waves, or what do you think happened?

I have no information that I can base a speculation upon. The fact that there was no radio (or even cellphone) communication from the boat prior to CCG Rescue Centre receiving an EPIRB signal indicates that whatever happened, happened fast. There are so many possibilities. The EPIRB signal was received at around 0530h, when it was still dark and the wind was howling.

[Steve McMahon]

Michael would have a lot more knowledge, but from what I know about scallop dragging in the Bay of Fundy in small boats there is the constant concern of the rakes getting snagged on something on the bottom. When this happens in a cross sea in a gale things can go south very fast. I know a number of scallop fisherman from a bit further up the bay in Harbourville. The winter fishery is very risky.

[Steve McMahon]

FV Chief William Saulis

[Steve McMahon]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...outh-1.5841891

[mmd]

Well, at least we now have the name of the boat and captain. The news story says six people aboard, my source - a fisherman who fishes out of Digby and knows some of the crew - says eight, and the Transport Canada registry says the boat is set up for seven crew. That is the way that it goes when information is coming in dribs and drabs when there is an emergency. I hope that Global News is more accurate than my source.

The boat is owned by a Native Peoples band. I hope that Chief Sack does not try to make political hay with this disaster.

[Flying Orca]

Here's a friend with a relevant song:

[Ian McColgin]

These things hit the community hard. At 0100 23 November the EPIRP from Emmy Rose, Portland, transmitted from about twenty miles northeast of Provincetown with four souls aboard. Her life raft was found upright and sound but no one aboard. They were headed home. Whatever happened happened fast.

[mmd]

That is (was) an interesting boat, Ian. I take it that it 'came from away' and was modified from her original intended use to fish in a different manner than first intended. A discussion on that practice might not be a bad idea, given that we have in this thread pictures of two boats converted from their original purpose to a fishery for which they were not designed (and one, I believe, that fishes far from her origins), and both lost at sea suddenly. Anybody want to play with this one?

[SKIP KILPATRICK]

Very sad news!

My heart goes out to the families and friends of the lost men!

[Ian McColgin]

In his book "The Perfect Storm" Sebastian Junger speculated that Robert Brown (vessel owner of Andrea Gail and according to Capt Linda Greenlaw "the most hated man in the East Coast fishery) had ordered gear changes that dangerously compromised stability. Junger backed away from those speculations but they appear plausible.

Point is: I would pay attention to evidence based thoughts from someone like Michael. I would not pay much heed to my speculations except to note that in my time fishing, tugging, and salvage work I only once saw a captain take a serious look at stability figures. Lots of seat of the pants stuff out there.

[Bob (oh, THAT Bob)]

Terrible news.

I don't know a thing about commercial fishing.

One would think that with modern, more accurate, weather forecasting and real-time data, things would be safer, but I guess forecasts are not perfect (though amazingly good, given the immense complexities of the dynamics involved) and boats go out for days or weeks or more, driven by economic need, and can easily get caught out in conditions that weren't forecast and they didn't expect.

Not to sideline the discussion, but in the past month I have been reading about Capsize Screening Formula, focusing mostly on sailing keelboats, where a wide beam relative to displacement makes things worse, in that a wave from abeam has more moment to overturn the boat, as I understand it. Not condemning any designers, you folks gotta design to the rules and market, I just wonder about the effect of the disproportionately wide beam on some fishing boats that the rules seem to favor.

As much as is possible from perhaps scant evidence, I hope a detailed investigation is able to yield something constructive that can be applied going forward.

[mmd]

One would think that with modern, more accurate, weather forecasting and real-time data, things would be safer, but I guess forecasts are not perfect (though amazingly good, given the immense complexities of the dynamics involved) and boats go out for days or weeks or more, driven by economic need, and can easily get caught out in conditions that weren't forecast and they didn't expect.

Things certainly are safer than 'back in the day' - my uncle was lost at sea when a storm hit the schooner he was fishing on without warning. That was in 1937, and marine weather forecasting was hit and miss - mostly miss. But better boats, better weather forecasting, and better equipment cannot stop a fisherman from going out in sketchy conditions. Bravado, greed, ignorance all play a part.

Not to sideline the discussion, but in the past month I have been reading about Capsize Screening Formula, focusing mostly on sailing keelboats, where a wide beam relative to displacement makes things worse, in that a wave from abeam has more moment to overturn the boat, as I understand it. Not condemning any designers, you folks gotta design to the rules and market, I just wonder about the effect of the disproportionately wide beam on some fishing boats that the rules seem to favor.

I have been railing on for some years now about the trend in the local lobster boats of getting immensely wide. This will not end well, IMHO.

As much as is possible from perhaps scant evidence, I hope a detailed investigation is able to yield something constructive that can be applied going forward.

Once the boat is on the bottom, it is very hard to determine structural fault. If everyone aboard perishes, the causes - structural, operational, or human - can only be speculated upon.

[Bob (oh, THAT Bob)]

^ Thanks mmd, your thoughts are always helpful.

With no evidence, I'm hoping at least, in the larger picture, that sea/wave/wind conditions present at the time, are modeled against vessels and operating conditions (loads, etc) involved. That may be the best that can be hoped for. But we're lucky to have the technology to do that.

[RFNK]

Very sorry to hear this!

[Gerarddm]

Very ugly news, my heart goes out to family and friends.

In the 70s when I was in Newport a lobster boat named the Zubenelgezubi ( sp? ) went out in late Nov or early Dec IIRC, got caught in a late season bad storm, last radio contact was that they were axing away ice and heading in. Lost with all hands, probably a top heavy rollover. 7 people, I think.

[Bob (oh, THAT Bob)]

Tell me, does there already exist, or should there be, someone on land who monitors boat positions relative to weather, to be able to say something like, "Bad weather conditions of <XXX> heading your direction, and between you and port; Do not head home, recommend head due south 180 true immediately to best avoid weather. Please advise on speed and how far south you can travel before needing to turn home based on fuel supply."

[Steve McMahon]

Not looking good. Every asset looking but so far nothing but some debris and empty life rafts washed ashore. I have a number of friends from ground search teams and fire departments involved that have been searching the shores in support. Military SAR, Coast Guard, other fishing boats, ground teams, RCMP, Fisheries etc... a very big effort. As always also a huge community support to help these agencies have places to warm up and get fed.

[willmarsh3]

I'm very sorry to hear this. I hope that by some miracle they are found alive.

I was wondering what sort of foul weather gear these poeple have on when fishing and how long would it protect against hypothermia after falling in the cold water?

[Steve McMahon]

I'm very sorry to hear this. I hope that by some miracle they are found alive.

I was wondering what sort of foul weather gear these poeple have on when fishing and how long would it protect against hypothermia after falling in the cold water?

They would have immersion suits that would protect them. Unfortunately it is likely that most of the crew would have been below in their bunks as they headed in with a full load after a night of dragging. No time to even get on deck let alone don the immersion suits if they got nailed by a big wave in a gale. Note from the picture all the rigging for the drags aloft, imagine that suddenly collecting ice from freezing spray while in big seas and a gale when fully loaded. Again, Michael would have a lot more technical insight than me, but I do have some experience with those waters and the people that fish them.

[Jim Bow]

Wasn't Andrea Gail lengthened without a naval architect being queried? Or maybe I'm thinking about one of our local crab boat losses..

[Spin_Drift]

Heartbreaking. So very sorry they ...

[Nicholas Carey]

They would have immersion suits that would protect them. Unfortunately it is likely that most of the crew would have been below in their bunks as they headed in with a full load after a night of dragging. No time to even get on deck let alone don the immersion suits if they got nailed by a big wave in a gale. Note from the picture all the rigging for the drags aloft, imagine that suddenly collecting ice from freezing spray while in big seas and a gale when fully loaded. Again, Michael would have a lot more technical insight than me, but I do have some experience with those waters and the people that fish them.

That's how our crabbers go down in the Gulf of Alaska. Heavy load of crabs. Huge stack of 400 pound crab pots on deck. Freezing spray and snow. The pots acts as ice collectors.

Big gust or wave and over she goes.

Season's short, so they stay out as long as they possibly can.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...med-crab-boat/



http://www.alaskacruisehandbook.com/arrivingdutch.html

[Steve McMahon]

They recovered one body yesterday. The search is ongoing. Pretty bad conditions from what understand.

[mmd]

It has been pretty ugly on the water in The Bay for almost a week now, Steve. Gale force, or just below, westerlies since last Wednesday evening. Lobstermen are earning their catch this year. Unfortunately, catch rates are down, and so is the dock price.

In my OP, I mentioned that a boat had also gone aground coming into Yarmouth harbour. I finished that bit of info with the opinion that it was probably floated off by the rising tide. I was wrong:

FV Guess aground at Yarmouth Bar 2020.jpg

[Peerie Maa]

^ Thats gonna need new stern gear.