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Thread: Coup attempt

  1. #1
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    Default Coup attempt

    The GOP coup attempt is underway, and unless the rational part of the country marches, donates, and raises unholy hell, Republicans will stop at NOTHING to thwart the majority will of the American people.

    Already right wind pundits like Mark Levin are calling for Republican legislators to "do their duty" and thwart the Electoral College function. You see it in small signs like head of the GSA, a bimbo Trump appointee, refusing to sign off on a transition statement so that Biden's team can begin the important work of getting a new government up and in place in the wings ready to go. Also, Yertle has not said even a perfunctory congratulatory word. The lame duck president plans a whole series of COVID superspreader campaign rallies to try to get Republican states to reverse the election results.

    These are very dangerous times, and if you think otherwise, you must be a Republican 'useful idiot'.
    Gerard>
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    That ship sailed and the GOP wasn’t on it!

    Sorry boys! Try again in 4 years!
    Skip

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    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    That ship sailed and the GOP wasn’t on it!
    At least one of the Fox News anchors may be joining the other rats jumping off the ship.


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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    Agreed Skip. What they call voter fraud the rest of the world calls democracy. trump's looking more like a petty, vindictive, childish fool every day and his loyal butt kissers are stepping out into the sunlight to be seen and remembered. Not the best career move JayInOz

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    Anarchy
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    I have every confidence that regardless of donald taking his bat and ball and going home, the normal processes will apply and the transition will occurr mostly as normal in the end.
    However if nothing else the weaknesses in the system have been glaringly obvious and will hopefully now
    be tided up.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Anarchy
    Nonsense.

    It can't happen here.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    ^ Exactly.

    and all the other times people said "he can't do that.." - and did - mean nothing to the rest of you?

    We are so far from 'out of the woods' it ain't funny! The only block to trump's actions is the Senate.. and they support him.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    Trump is toast. That doesn't mean we shouldn't watch, listen, and fight if needed, but he will soon be an ugly footnote in history.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    Gerarddm is right. Here it comes.

    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and other Republicans on Monday backed President Trump’s efforts to contest his loss to President-elect Joe Biden, despite the lack of evidence of significant fraud and sharp rebukes from election officials who defended the integrity of the vote.
    McConnell (R-Ky.) said from the floor of the Senate that the president is “100 percent within his right” to pursue recounts and litigation. McConnell did not repeat Trump’s baseless assertions that fraud had cost him the election, but he said he had met with Attorney General William P. Barr earlier in the day and supports the president’s right to investigate all claims of wrongdoing.
    “We have the tools and institutions we need to address any concerns,” McConnell said. “The president has every right to look into allegations and request recounts under the law.”
    Separately, Barr on Monday gave federal prosecutors a green light to pursue allegations of voting irregularities in certain cases before results are certified. The memo appeared to reverse previous Justice Department guidance that prosecutors generally should not take overt steps in cases involving alleged voter fraud until results are in and official.
    Meanwhile, other GOP officials also rushed to bolster Trump’s case, including the two U.S. senators from Georgia, who demanded the resignation of Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, a fellow Republican, after his office said there was no evidence of widespread fraud in the state.
    And the Republican attorneys general of about a dozen states threw their support behind a legal effort pending before the U.S. Supreme Court to throw out mail ballots in Pennsylvania that were received after Election Day — a small number of votes that state officials said would not be enough to change the outcome.
    And then there’s this sickening nihilistic bit:

    “What is the downside for humoring him for this little bit of time? No one seriously thinks the results will change,” said one senior Republican official. “He went golfing this weekend. It’s not like he’s plotting how to prevent Joe Biden from taking power on Jan. 20. He’s tweeting about filing some lawsuits, those lawsuits will fail, then he’ll tweet some more about how the election was stolen, and then he’ll leave.”
    Still, Trump’s rhetoric has inflamed some of his supporters around the country, who have gathered in small “Stop the Steal” protests and declared that they do not have faith in the results.


    https://apple.news/AtveCeMG6S92bM1tj4Sg9Fw

    His praetorian guard are indulging him. Whether they succeed or not, they’re debasing the last American institution left unstained. After a weekend of silence, action. I am alarmed.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    If it was up to me, I'd also encourage Trump to chase the voter fraud issue down as many rabbit holes as possible. There are a lot more dangerous things he could be doing.
    Rick

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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    Perhaps. Except chasing down voter fraud is fuel for more dangerous things.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    I'm fearing it's a case of "let's see how far we can push this thing" We will go as far as we can by any means available. It will certainly be testing the waters for the next push and they will get a bit further each time until it's nothing but a scorched earth political landscape in their wake. I now believe that the terminology of scorched earth policy is a suitable description and the irresponsibility of those contributing to this particular political climate are guilty of crimes against the state. If any of this gets to the Supreme Court and the Judges act in a manner complicit to Trumps trajectory then Democracy is terminal in the USA.
    If this passes with Trump out, moves have to be made to roadblock the any similar tactics before the next election.
    Last edited by Hallam; 11-10-2020 at 05:42 AM.
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    Comes the day when the Electoral College is supposed to vote, what might happen if some GOP States haven't yet "certified" the elections in their states? Might Electors in those states vote for Trump instead of Biden?

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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    I just can't see it gaining any real traction. The sort of people likely to freak out about it will always find something to howl about anyway. Letting them all blow off steam on this nonsense seems like a pretty good strategy to me . Just guessing, from a long way away, of course!
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Scheuer View Post
    Comes the day when the Electoral College is supposed to vote, what might happen if some GOP States haven't yet "certified" the elections in their states? Might Electors in those states vote for Trump instead of Biden?
    The 'faithless elector' phenomenon looks like more of a potential issue, to me. But I understand there's no precedent for them actually voting for the opposing party? The ones I've read about voted for other candidates from their own party.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    Who the hell are the electors anyway? How are they chosen? By whom?

    Very opaque, this whole elector thing in the US.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    When are Trump's court proceedings scheduled to happen? It might be like Trump's tax audits; Which he says he will be pleased to share with us, just as soon as they are done auditing them. If the voting irregularities suits haven't been heard by Jan 20, Trump may sue to stop the inauguration. Then he might fire Barr and appoint Jared Attorney General.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    I think they're chosen by each party. In some states, the party holds an election to choose them. It happens well before the presidential election. So, Nevada, for example, would have selected 6 Dem electors and 6 Rep electors some months ago. Now the 6 Dem electors will go to the meeting in December to cast their 6 votes for Biden.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    So a Trump coup would require a bunch of people hand-picked by Biden's party to turn coats. Doesn't seem likely.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    The GOP coup attempt is underway, and unless the rational part of the country marches, donates, and raises unholy hell, Republicans will stop at NOTHING to thwart the majority will of the American people.

    Already right wind pundits like Mark Levin are calling for Republican legislators to "do their duty" and thwart the Electoral College function. You see it in small signs like head of the GSA, a bimbo Trump appointee, refusing to sign off on a transition statement so that Biden's team can begin the important work of getting a new government up and in place in the wings ready to go. Also, Yertle has not said even a perfunctory congratulatory word. The lame duck president plans a whole series of COVID superspreader campaign rallies to try to get Republican states to reverse the election results.

    These are very dangerous times, and if you think otherwise, you must be a Republican 'useful idiot'.
    He's got nothing.

    It's all a grift to fleece GOP supporters of MORE money to cover costs.

    There'll be no recount in Minnesota as it will cost the GOP a $1 million bond and then actual costs.

    There'll be no recount in Georgia as it will also cost the GOP MORE cold hard cash.

    There are still campaign debts to pay, all via the promise of some spurious "Legal Defence Fund."

    This WILL all come out and this WILL bankrupt the GOP and the Grifting Obese Purloiners WILL be ground into a paste by it.

    Stacy Abrams WILL flip the two Georgia senate runoffs and the Democratic Party WILL control both houses.

    Mark Levin can pound sand. Yertle will drop off the twig from some haemorrhage before the next 12 months are done... Maybe fingers crossed on that last one!

    But it's all one big SCAM!!
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  22. #22
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    Pence has announced, “He is going on vacation!”.

    Smart, distance, distance, distance.... run, do not walk to the nearest exit!
    Skip

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    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    So - the ballot for president is the exact same piece of paper as the ballot for senator, representative, mayor, and dogcatcher. If there are any illegal ballots, aren't all races - including all senators - suspect?

    How can you have an illegal ballot for president without it also being illegal for the other races?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    If this is a 'coup attempt', it has to be the lamest, most incompetent coup attempt in the history of the planet, at least so far.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    So - the ballot for president is the exact same piece of paper as the ballot for senator, representative, mayor, and dogcatcher. If there are any illegal ballots, aren't all races - including all senators - suspect?

    How can you have an illegal ballot for president without it also being illegal for the other races?
    This.
    I read somewhere that newly elected GOP Representatives are blowing cold on the fraud/recount issue.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    If this is a 'coup attempt', it has to be the lamest, most incompetent coup attempt in the history of the planet, at least so far.
    So, "on brand."
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    At least so far Keith. I put nothing past these people. His rallies will happen again to show some muscle and keep his loyal backers in government behind him. Don't think it can't happen here. I'd say it's low probability but not and impossibility. Most of the media are treating those going along for the ride as just mollifying/humoring him, I'm not so sure. There's a ton at stake here for everyone, not just Democrats.
    If he ever drinks the brew of 10 tanna leaves, he will become a monster the likes of which the world has never seen



  28. #28
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    If this is a 'coup attempt', it has to be the lamest, most incompetent coup attempt in the history of the planet, at least so far.
    I’ve decided to never again underestimate Trump or the huge damage a tiny drip can cause.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    Trump is attempting a coup.

    His enablers know it won't work, but they like the idea of a Democratic president seen as illegitimate by half the nation. It makes it easier for the swamp turtle to obstruct everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    If it was up to me, I'd also encourage Trump to chase the voter fraud issue down as many rabbit holes as possible. There are a lot more dangerous things he could be doing.
    At best, it delays the transition, the transfer of necessary authority, monies for hiring of staff, shuts Biden out of briefings and puts in questioner delays the remaining requirements for an effective transition. This alone is reason for concern. The worst case scenario is of course a full blown and successful coup. In between those two options lie a range of dangerous behaviors and results. The guy who should be shut out of this isn't Biden. It's Trump the Usurper, and it is very serious indeed.

    In answer to George's question about who selects the electors from each state, it is essentially done by the state government, led by the state's governor. The danger is that any Trump allies (a renegade governor, for instance) in such a government could simply appoint Trump electors. That's all it takes. It's not a protected right that the electors must go along with the popular will. In fact, that's sort of the point of the whole thing, which was designed to keep the slave states in slaves.

    It's as serious as a heart attack, but even more preventable assuming integrity is built into the system. And it is infuriating in the extreme. Seems like we don't necessarily have integrity codified in law.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    I’ve decided to never again underestimate Trump or the huge damage a tiny drip can cause.
    and yet, there are a few people who haven't quite caught on to this..

    Keith.. others.. - an update.. in the case of the malevolent, never presume ignorance - it's no different than 'not choosing a side'.

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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    The GOP coup attempt is underway, and unless the rational part of the country ..., donates,
    One rational thing a person with that opinion could do is sell all of his assets and donate them.

    I have never asked anyone to donate to a cause that I was not willing to donate everything for. But there are a lot of rich Democrats, Bloomberg for example, who have enough money to fully fund the cause.
    Life is complex.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    One rational thing a person with that opinion could do is sell all of his assets and donate them.
    Do explain how selling all of one's assets is a rational thing to do.
    Gerard>
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    In answer to George's question about who selects the electors from each state, it is essentially done by the state government, led by the state's governor.
    I don’t think that’s correct. The party’s pick their electors before the election, then upon certification of results the winning party’s electors are chosen by the state. In Minnesota 2 Republican electors sued to have “late” mailin votes not be counted.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Coup attempt

    Again, so far. While it probably won't work, it may do quite a lot of damage. (Source)

    Why Trump and Republicans Are Plotting to Undermine Democracy
    By Jonathan Chait

    In the late 1990s, I was sitting in an off-the-record lunch with a very high-ranking member of the Republican Party’s congressional leadership. The purpose of these meetings was to give journalists a chance to hear the candid views of influential people, peeling back the spin and polish of their public talking points. Sometimes the guests presented themselves as more sane than they appeared on television. Other times, they revealed themselves to be even crazier. This was one of the latter occasions.

    One of our writers asked the guest a question premised on the most recent election results. Bill Clinton had beaten Bob Dole by more than 8 million votes. But the guest rejected the premise of the question. He insisted that Clinton’s margin reflected mass-scale voter fraud, and the true intentions of the voting public could never be known.

    If you want to understand why nearly the entire Republican Party is standing by Donald Trump’s deranged claims that Joe Biden stole the election, this belief is a good place to begin. The party is playing the same extraordinarily dangerous game it has played with Trump since he emerged onto the national stage: placating his bizarre lies in hopes they can be turned to their own benefit. They don’t expect Trump’s legal challenges to produce a victory. They do, however, sympathize with his position and believe they have every right to exploit it.

    Republicans Think Democrats Always Cheat

    The Republican strategy has several sources of motivation, but the most important is a widely shared belief that Democrats in large cities — i.e., racial minorities — engage in systematic vote fraud, election after election. “We win because of our ideas, we lose elections because they cheat us,” insisted Senator Lindsey Graham on Fox News last night. The Bush administration pursued phantasmal vote fraud allegations, firing prosecutors for failing to uncover evidence of the schemes Republicans insisted were happening under their noses. In 2008, even a Republican as civic-minded as John McCain accused ACORN, a voter-registration group, of “maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy.”

    The persistent failure to produce evidence of mass-scale vote fraud has not discouraged Republicans from believing in its existence. The failure to expose it merely proves how well-hidden the conspiracy is. Republicans may despair of their chances of proving Trump’s vote-fraud charges in open court, but many of them believe his wild lies reflect a deeper truth.

    Republicans Blame Democrats for Trump’s Scandals

    Second, they believe Trump’s refusal to accept the election results is fair play because Democrats did it to him. “Let’s not have any lectures about how the president should immediately, cheerfully accept preliminary election results from the same characters who just spent four years refusing to accept the validity of the last election,” proclaimed Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

    What on earth is McConnell talking about? Hillary Clinton, after all, graciously accepted the results of the election the morning after, once her razor-thin defeat had become clear. McConnell obviously does not have the election result itself in mind. Instead he seems to be referring to the broader pattern of resistance to Trump during his term.

    Republicans blame the four-year stream of misconduct and outright criminality not on Trump but on the reporters and investigators who uncovered it. Trump faced “a political insurgency that refused in practice, if not in formal fact, to accept the outcome of an election its candidate had lost,” Wall Street Journal columnist and recent editor Gerard Baker rants in his column today. “The members of this resistance spent four years using every lever at their disposal—bureaucracy, law enforcement, Congress, news media—to thwart, disrupt and try to bring down the duly elected president.”

    Clinton may have technically accepted the election result very quickly, and the Obama administration may have technically offered full cooperation with the transition. But in reality, Trump’s opponents proceeded to expose massive corruption and wrongdoing — and the blame for this rests not on Trump but on them.

    A version of this argument comes from Trump defender Byron York, who sniffs, “Why should they be surprised when Trump says the other side cheated? After all, they said the same thing four years ago after the 2016 election.” York is referring to the investigation by Robert Mueller, a Republican, who was appointed by Rod Rosenstein, a Republican, to pursue narrow criminal cases initiated by James Comey, also a Republican. The investigation was somewhat thwarted because the aides most directly involved in Trump’s collusion with Russia, Roger Stone and Paul Manafort, withheld cooperation in the apparent expectation of a pardon. But much of the evidence was either sitting in plain sight — for one thing, Trump asked Russia to hack Clinton’s emails on live television, a request Russia immediately obliged — so if we define Trump’s solicitation of Russian email theft as “cheating,” then the charge is indisputable.

    But Republicans experienced the Mueller investigation and other Trump scandals as a humiliation that they equate with Democratic refusal to accept his presidency. Indeed, many of his loyalists predicted that Democrats would refuse to accept Trump’s reelection:

    (Link to deranged Tweet)

    Having internalized their conviction that Democrats effectively refused to concede the 2016 election, and would surely do so formally in 2020, they can now rationalize Trump’s outright refusal to do so as delicious revenge.

    Wild Fraud Claims Are Now “the Process”

    Third, they have rationalized Trump’s conspiracy-mongering as a simple and uncontroversial call to follow the rules. Ben Shapiro elucidated the party line, “The legal process must play out,” as if the normal way elections are resolved is to have attorneys appear in the parking lot of a landscaping company hurling bizarre charges.

    Ginning up no-hope lawsuits to throw out tens of thousands of votes in multiple states was obviously never part of “the process” of American presidential elections until now. Trump’s supporters rationalize it as a necessary step to assure his fans that the election was fair. “Under the contentious circumstances of this election, the traditional media’s decision to declare a victor before the official process had run its course has diminished the confidence of Trump voters in the announced result,” argues Andy Puzder, rejected Labor Secretary nominee and author of The Capitalist Comeback: The Trump Boom and the Left’s Plot to Stop It. “Even if the declaration of a Biden victory is found to be accurate, the call was premature, and it will make the effort to unify our nation far more difficult.”

    Note the circular logic: The election is “contentious” because Trump has made it contentious, and the media declared a victory before “the process ran its course” because Trump refused to accept the outcome as other candidates have, and therefore his supporters need and deserve special reassurance.

    Puzder points to 2012 as an election that proceeded without any such suspicion: “In 2012, many Republicans felt disappointed when Mitt Romney lost to President Obama. Very few felt cheated.”

    In fact, one Republican who did feel cheated by the 2012 result was Donald Trump. The famous birther had a public meltdown on Election Night, labeling the outcome a “sham” and calling for a march on Washington to carry out a “revolution”:



    This is “the process” for how American candidates respond to clear defeat. It’s Trump’s process for denying defeat. But when he accused Ted Cruz of stealing the 2016 Iowa caucus, Republicans oddly did not see the need for a process to play out to assure Trump’s fans the result was fair.

    Continued . . .
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 11-10-2020 at 12:35 PM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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