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Thread: Politics VS Political Science

  1. #1
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    Default Politics VS Political Science

    It would seem the consensus among Political Scientists that Donald F Trump is attempting an authoritarian breakthrough.

    He has nothing to lose by attempting this coup, and everything to gain.

    Politicians, on the other hand, seem pretty evenly divided as to whether or not that is a good thing.

    Climate science denial is one thing, but this?
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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    Self interest rules.

    I am amazed that America under the evident King-like rule of a dangerous and malicious leader has such a vulnerable system that cannot truncate his powers.

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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Self interest rules.

    I am amazed that America under the evident King-like rule of a dangerous and malicious leader has such a vulnerable system that cannot truncate his powers.
    It can.

    But the mechanism have been eroded by decades of Acton Dictum drift. People with the mentality of gangsters in places where we need responsible civil servants, and institutions compromised and corroded. It's fixable.
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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    The political scientists are right to be concerned, and publicly drawing parallels.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Self interest rules.

    I am amazed that America under the evident King-like rule of a dangerous and malicious leader has such a vulnerable system that cannot truncate his powers.
    In general, political scientists think systems like ours are more vulnerable to such leaders than parliamentary systems.

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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    ......effective checks and balances? What I've been banging on about for decades as the essential safeguard of democracy, and here it is at the crossroads for all to witness. If the USA get through this Trump attempt, and i think they will, they had better put their house in order in this regard before the next presidential election otherwise it's all over red rover.
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    The fact that he is trying can no longer surprise me.

    The question is whether he is capable of doing it? It seems the system is doing its job and stopping him.

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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    The fact that he is trying can no longer surprise me.

    The question is whether he is capable of doing it? It seems the system is doing its job and stopping him.
    That's a relief.

    Can you point me to specific evidence of this?

    I mean, he's almost completely dismantled the Pentagon, and given pretty much all civil servants their two weeks' notice.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    You might want to pick up a copy of the current 'Economist'. The theme is -- How resilient is America’s democracy?
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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    It would seem the consensus among Political Scientists that Donald F Trump is attempting an authoritarian breakthrough.

    He has nothing to lose by attempting this coup, and everything to gain.

    Politicians, on the other hand, seem pretty evenly divided as to whether or not that is a good thing.

    Climate science denial is one thing, but this?
    eh?

    so did i miss some big news today?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallam View Post
    ......effective checks and balances? What I've been banging on about for decades as the essential safeguard of democracy, and here it is at the crossroads for all to witness. If the USA get through this Trump attempt, and i think they will, they had better put their house in order in this regard before the next presidential election otherwise it's all over red rover.
    It's far more likely that the Republicans will use the uncertainty they've caused as an excuse to put more roadblocks in the way of voting.

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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    Political science is a classic oxymoron.
    Rick

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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    eh?

    so did i miss some big news today?
    Yes, indeed.
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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    Trump is trying but failing because he is an idiot.

    Sooner or later, someone who is not an idiot will try and succeed. Maybe in 100 years, maybe in 8. Then, if the US survives, it will fix the stupid stuff in its constitution that makes this even possible.

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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Trump is trying but failing because he is an idiot.

    Sooner or later, someone who is not an idiot will try and succeed. Maybe in 100 years, maybe in 8. Then, if the US survives, it will fix the stupid stuff in its constitution that makes this even possible.
    If ever there has been an employee who needed to be frog marched to the front door and hurled out into traffic, it's this moron.

    However, instead of being told to clean out his desk under the watchful supervision of humorless, steely-eyed men in bad suits, he is free to wander the halls, destroying whatever gets in his way FOR TWO FREAKING MONTHS!!!!
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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    Yep. I don't think any other country has this long lame-duck period. It goes back to the days when the new president had to ride his horse back home to sort out his affairs, apparently. But today, why doesn't he have to leave pretty much immediately? It just seems crazy!
    Rick

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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    Is Canada taking notes? Or do y'awl figure it can't happen there, eh?

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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    It's not the lame duck period. It's the fact that you don't simply add the votes and whoever has the most is president, like everywhere else.

    What Trump is doing is only possible because of this Rube Goldberg system. Get rid of it.

    BTW, if the transition was shorter, then the incoming prez would have even less time to "transition" than with Trump holding back on cooperating. You all made such a big deal about that, making it sound like the full two and half months of lame-duckness (lame-duckery?) is necessary.

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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    That's a relief.

    Can you point me to specific evidence of this?

    I mean, he's almost completely dismantled the Pentagon, and given pretty much all civil servants their two weeks' notice.
    Sarcasm? Well, let's see. His attempts in the courts have been universally rebuffed. That's the quasi-legal approach down the drain. The recounts have gone in Biden's favor. That leaves the military and his minions. I don't think he can dig deep enough into the ranks to find leaders or troops that will support him if he tries to stay in power. His minions are a very bad, but very serious joke. They will create chaos and harm people, but in the end I don't think enough Trump voters will take action.

    Trump is a bad joke and he is about to get the punch line.

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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    In general, political scientists think systems like ours are more vulnerable to such leaders than parliamentary systems.
    Did I just hear Osbornes head explode?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Trump is trying but failing because he is an idiot.

    Sooner or later, someone who is not an idiot will try and succeed. Maybe in 100 years, maybe in 8. Then, if the US survives, it will fix the stupid stuff in its constitution that makes this even possible.
    there is no constitution ever written anywhere, or that can ever be formulated, that makes autocracy "impossible". autocracy is anti-constitutional. it's that simple.

    the fault is not with the constitution.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    It's not the lame duck period. It's the fact that you don't simply add the votes and whoever has the most is president, like everywhere else.

    What Trump is doing is only possible because of this Rube Goldberg system. Get rid of it.

    BTW, if the transition was shorter, then the incoming prez would have even less time to "transition" than with Trump holding back on cooperating. You all made such a big deal about that, making it sound like the full two and half months of lame-duckness (lame-duckery?) is necessary.
    so, if trump had wrangled the most popular votes, everything would be fine.

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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Sarcasm? Well, let's see. His attempts in the courts have been universally rebuffed. That's the quasi-legal approach down the drain. The recounts have gone in Biden's favor. That leaves the military and his minions. I don't think he can dig deep enough into the ranks to find leaders or troops that will support him if he tries to stay in power. His minions are a very bad, but very serious joke. They will create chaos and harm people, but in the end I don't think enough Trump voters will take action.

    Trump is a bad joke and he is about to get the punch line.
    Yes, it was sarcasm.

    My apologies, CW.

    I just don't see this ending well for anybody.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallam View Post
    ......effective checks and balances? What I've been banging on about for decades as the essential safeguard of democracy, and here it is at the crossroads for all to witness. If the USA get through this Trump attempt, and i think they will, they had better put their house in order in this regard before the next presidential election otherwise it's all over red rover.
    I suspect something as simple as requiring a presidential candidate to pass an appropriate security check would do it.

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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Yes, it was sarcasm.

    My apologies, CW.

    I just don't see this ending well for anybody.
    No apology needed. I am taking this issue seriously, but I don't think we need to be overly alarmed so far. Is he a menace to the country, to the world, and to our basic freedoms? Oh, yes! Must he be restrained by law? Oh, hell yes! I just don't think he has the power or the backing to take the presidency away from the legally elected Biden. I don't think the military would follow him and I hope and pray I am right. So far, all the signs point to his outstanding failure both as a president, a dictator, and a human being. He has degraded the presidency and that may be his greatest crime, but I don't think he has the backing to hold it past January 20. Maybe I'm just being a Pollyanna, but that's how I see it so far.

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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    there is no constitution ever written anywhere, or that can ever be formulated, that makes autocracy "impossible". autocracy is anti-constitutional. it's that simple.

    the fault is not with the constitution.
    flynn calling for donald to "suspend the constitution".

    get it yet.

    it's not the u.s. constitution to blame if we succumb to autocracy. no people anywhere are immune to this.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Politics VS Political Science

    I'm almost getting it!
    But I had such high hopes for POS Trump and his band of marauders to do right...well, it's just difficult for me to accept that My Beloved President has become a Treasonous Traitorous Userper.
    It hurts...sob...give me a moment to collect myself...sniff...

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