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Thread: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    That scientist? Absolutely. And I wish all nuclear weapons proliferators can be dealt with in the same way.

    Don’t you? And if not, why not?
    You mean people who have actually been prolific in the production of nuclear weapons?

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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    And the US used to be a land of native people. Are you seriously proposing that Iran will take over Saudi Arabia and subjugate Wahhabism and the House of Saud under Iranian rule?

    It goes beyond Mecca. Iran has always played Second Fiddle to the Saudis ever since Britain pulled out of the Middle East. They were Persia, now they are nothing in many people's eyes. Becoming a Nuclear Nation would change all that, it would change the entire power dynamic in the area. Israel and the Saudis cannot afford that.
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    You mean people who have actually been prolific in the production of nuclear weapons employed by rogue nations who disregard the non-proliferation treaties?
    Context is important.
    Not that I agree with assassination, just as I don't agree with rogue presidents destroying treaties that had put a break on said nuclear proliferation.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  4. #39
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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    It goes beyond Mecca. Iran has always played Second Fiddle to the Saudis ever since Britain pulled out of the Middle East. They were Persia, now they are nothing in many people's eyes. Becoming a Nuclear Nation would change all that, it would change the entire power dynamic in the area. Israel and the Saudis cannot afford that.
    Nor can any of their neighbours as far out as Pakistan.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  5. #40
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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Context is important.
    Not that I agree with assassination, just as I don't agree with rogue presidents destroying treaties that had put a break on said nuclear proliferation.
    Is there a reason you changed what I wrote?

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Interesting that this happens the day after an innocent Australian academic held in prison in Iran for over two years, is flown out of the country by an agreement negotiated by Australian officials and intelligence. After her release it was revealed her husband was an Israeli. It was basically a prisoner swap as 3 Iranians convicted of a failed bombing attempt in Thailand were released in exchange.

    Kylie Moore-Gilbert arrives in Australia after being released from Iranian prison - ABC News

    She was sentenced to 10 yrs prison on what. are considered trumped up espionage charges.

    At the least it seems they waited until this exchange was finalised. Perhaps though the timing is also a payback message?



    Kylie Moore-Gilbert specialises in Arab Gulf states at the University of Melbourne's Asia Institute.(University Of Melbourne)



    Dr Moore-Gilbert said in her statement she was departing Iran "with bittersweet feelings" and "as a friend with friendly intentions", despite spending more than 800 days in prison.

    "I have nothing but respect, love and admiration for the great nation of Iran and its warm-hearted, generous and brave people," she said.
    "It is with bittersweet feelings that I depart your country, despite the injustices which I have been subjected to.
    "I came to Iran as a friend and with friendly intentions, and depart Iran with those sentiments not only still intact, but strengthened."
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  7. #42
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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Is there a reason you changed what I wrote?
    Yes, it was incomplete. There is no need to do anything about nuclear scientists who are not engaged in designing new weapons of mass destruction.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  8. #43
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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Yes, it was incomplete. There is no need to do anything about nuclear scientists who are not engaged in designing new weapons of mass destruction.
    Please use your own words and not rewrite mine.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Please use your own words and not rewrite mine.
    As if you have never seen that done before?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  10. #45
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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    That scientist? Absolutely. And I wish all nuclear weapons proliferators can be dealt with in the same way.

    Donít you? And if not, why not?
    I remember your remark (which I agreed with) regarding murderers from the IRA. It seems that your attitude to murderers has become selective depending on which side they are on.
    I would rather have doubt than be certain and wrong.
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  11. #46
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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    For the life of me, I cannot find ANY reference online (which makes me wonder if my memory is failing), but during the '00s if I recall, an Iranian nuclear scientist was killed under similar circumstance, and then some time later, a USA nuclear scientist, young, female, was killed with seemingly no other motive. I thought it happened in Texas or the southwest. Does anyone else have recollection or find a reference? There's plenty of references of past Iranians killed, but not the American. Maybe I imagined it. Or maybe the 'web has been scrubbed clean. But if true, my point would be, these things do have consequences.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    As if you have never seen that done before?
    it is poor form.
    Steve Martinsen

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    As if you have never seen that done before?
    Sure, sometimes in fun, sometimes not. Maybe my short term memory is getting relaxed and it confuses me.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    So, I've just skimmed this post. Does it not occur to anyone that Netanyahu and Trump might be trying to make it harder for Biden to reenter the Iranian Nuclear Accord? The Israeli's seem the likely assassins', but we can surmise that Trump was notified or perhaps even asked for it to take place. No mystery to me. I'll add that these type of actions are what lead to Embassy bombings etc.

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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Further info on Israel's involvement in the release of the Australian prisoner which i think confirms my take on it that the assassination is related to how Iran used her capture as a means of hostage diplomacy. Her release required the participation of Israel. The three Iranian prisoners released from Thailand prison had attempted an assassination of Israeli diplomats in Bangkok. My bet is along the lines of Iran thought it had won a little battle by getting their boys back but once the exchange had taken place Mossad sent a message by assassinating Iran's nuclear scientist that this is it price of playing hostage diplomacy. Iran has been sent a message that a price will be extracted for the release of those who targeted Israeli diplomats in the failed terrorist bombing attempt.

    More details in this article:

    How Australia negotiated the release of Kylie Moore-Gilbert from Iran

    [........The complicated plan was kept a highly guarded secret and would not be easy to pull off. Australia needed to convince Thailand to release three Iranians - Saeid Moradi, Mohammad Kharzei and Masoud Sedaghat Zadeh - who were jailed over their role in a 2012 bomb plot targeting Israeli diplomats in Bangkok. Although the three set out to do serious harm, they botched their mission; Moradi lost his legs when a bomb he attempted to throw at police detonated at his feet.
    While the Thailand deal was always a focus, The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age can reveal there were also alternative prisoner-swap arrangements that were floated that involved Iranian prisoners in other countries. Every possible deal – including the Thailand option – required the participation of Israel......]
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question.

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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    For the life of me, I cannot find ANY reference online (which makes me wonder if my memory is failing), but during the '00s if I recall, an Iranian nuclear scientist was killed under similar circumstance, and then some time later, a USA nuclear scientist, young, female, was killed with seemingly no other motive. I thought it happened in Texas or the southwest. Does anyone else have recollection or find a reference? There's plenty of references of past Iranians killed, but not the American. Maybe I imagined it. Or maybe the 'web has been scrubbed clean. But if true, my point would be, these things do have consequences.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assa...ear_scientists
    Is this the woman?
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ad-son-walmart

    Pete

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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    But they are home teams, not OS adventurers in purtsuit of political office in their home territory, no matter how many lives it costs.

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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    And the US used to be a land of native people. Are you seriously proposing that Iran will take over Saudi Arabia and subjugate Wahhabism and the House of Saud under Iranian rule?
    This week? - No, Next week? - no - but in an hundred years who knows.

    Long term the House of Saud looks like a fragile and unstable thing which - absent the support of the west, would be swallowed whole by some larger entity.

    As I said earlier
    The space where Mecca exists has been held my many different rulers - from many different lands - How many can you name?
    How many can you name?
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    That scientist? Absolutely. And I wish all nuclear weapons proliferators can be dealt with in the same way.

    Donít you? And if not, why not?
    I had to think about that question for a while. You know my feelings on nuclear weapons.

    My answer is no. Perhaps if it could be arranged for the leaders of proliferating countries to be assassinated I would be for it - their successors would be highly encouraged to not continue. But the scientists are just doing what in their country is considered a patriotic duty, and if you kill them they are replaced - nothing stops.

    And let's not forget, the worst proliferator at the moment - and arguably ever - is the United States. It is modernizing its nuclear arsenal, seeking to maintain a viable first-use policy, including tactical strikes. No other country is doing that, and it is setting off a new nuclear arms race. So I ask you, Andrew: do you support the assassination of the top American nuclear scientists?

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Iran's president has blamed Israel for the killing of a top nuclear scientist on Friday, and said it would not slow down the country's nuclear programme.
    Hassan Rouhani also said Iran would retaliate over Mohsen Fakhrizadeh's killing at a time of its choosing.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-55111064
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  21. #56
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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    The assassination of Mohsen Fakhrizadeh, the architect of Iran’s military nuclear program, is a new height in the maximum pressure campaign led by the Trump administration and the Netanyahu government against Iran.

    Israel didn’t take responsibility for the assassination, but the New York Times reported it was Israeli agents who killed Fakhrizade, citing intelligence officials.
    Israeli officials briefed several media outlets in Israel that without Fakhrizade it will be hard for Iran to continue its nuclear program.

    Between the lines: The killing of Fakhrizadeh comes as part of what seems as an effort by the Trump administration and the Netanyahu government to use the time left until President-elect Joe Biden assumes office for more pressure on Iran.
    The Trump administration hasn’t concealed its ambition to make it harder for Biden to renew talks with Iran and rejoin the 2015 nuclear deal. Sanctions, covert operations and threats for military strike are part of this effort.
    The trilateral meeting between Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman in Saudi Arabia on Sunday was also part of the effort to raise the pressure on Iran and send a message to the Biden administration.


    https://www.axios.com/fakhrizadeh-as...8c29cb838.html
    Structures uninformed by geometry tend towards the ramshackle.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    I had to think about that question for a while. You know my feelings on nuclear weapons.

    My answer is no. Perhaps if it could be arranged for the leaders of proliferating countries to be assassinated I would be for it - their successors would be highly encouraged to not continue. But the scientists are just doing what in their country is considered a patriotic duty, and if you kill them they are replaced - nothing stops.

    And let's not forget, the worst proliferator at the moment - and arguably ever - is the United States. It is modernizing its nuclear arsenal, seeking to maintain a viable first-use policy, including tactical strikes. No other country is doing that, and it is setting off a new nuclear arms race. So I ask you, Andrew: do you support the assassination of the top American nuclear scientists?
    No need, in a couple of months time the US will cease being a rogue state.
    As to replacing a top expert and carrying on, how many top ranking nuclear experts do you think are loose in the wild?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    ...
    As to replacing a top expert and carrying on, how many top ranking nuclear experts do you think are loose in the wild?
    Dunno - how many has Trump fired?
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    You mean people who have actually been prolific in the production of nuclear weapons?
    No. You know perfectly well what I mean.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    As to replacing a top expert and carrying on, how many top ranking nuclear experts do you think are loose in the wild?
    Quite a few, it appears:

    Fakhrizadeh is sometimes described as Iran’s Robert Oppenheimer, the scientist at the center of America’s pioneering nuclear-weapons project in the 1940s. But his assassination is unlikely to make a material difference to the Iranian nuclear program, which is thought to have hundreds of scientists and sufficient institutional knowledge to carry on without Fakhrizadeh.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...s?srnd=premium

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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    No. You know perfectly well what I mean.
    I don’t see how assassinating scientists enables non-proliferation as much as it becomes a way for two parties to continue conflicts. It’s not like the technology can be owned by anyone.

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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    I donít see how assassinating scientists enables non-proliferation as much as it becomes a way for two parties to continue conflicts. Itís not like the technology can be owned by anyone.
    "all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others".......

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    Default Re: Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    No need, in a couple of months time the US will cease being a rogue state.
    As to replacing a top expert and carrying on, how many top ranking nuclear experts do you think are loose in the wild?
    They share a border with Pakistan, and seem to be on moderately good terms with each other. Pakistan has the knowhow, and if they were ever motivated to share anything, it would be beyond easy to do it completely under the radar.
    US/Pakistani relations is one thing that the Trump administration actually seems to have improved, which hopefully makes that scenario less likely.
    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order...akistan-reset/


    Pete

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