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Thread: Talk to me about row-cruising

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan H View Post
    OK, now...

    What DON'T you like about cruising under oar? No experience is utterly delightful every single second you are doing it. What challenges and unpleasantness do you deal with?
    Hmm... Rowing in strong headwinds, or against currents? With the right mindset, though, that's not terrible either. You just have to be willing to accept a SLOW pace, and don't fight what you can't beat.

    I've never been bothered by blisters--I wonder if they're more of a problem in salt water? I'd expect so.

    Mosquitoes! There have been a few bad evenings at the oars.

    Long open water passages where it's hard to maintain any sense of making progress--that can be mentally challenging. Again, for me the solution is to fully inhabit the moment, rather than trying to dissociate. Keeping your awareness on what you are doing--even (or especially) when it's uncomfortable--makes it interesting and enjoyable, or at least not miserable, for me.

    Not much I don't like, I guess. There are some things that aren't always physically comfortable, but lack of comfort doesn't seem to mean a lot to me when I'm in a boat.

    Tom
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  2. #72
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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    My weights are close to Tom's. If you are happy at 3 kts, not trying to beat another boat, then weight is not that big an issue. I mean that adding 30% more weight won't slow you by 30%, usually not even by very much. The wetted surface and friction increases, but waterline slightly increases also for higher hull speed. I see little difference solo or two aboard, although 3 people put the transom under and that was slower.

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    So what I'm getting here is that the rewards are....

    Intimacy with the environment around you. You're right on the water, you're quiet and unobtrusive, and that means you get to see things that a motor boat or a big sailboat wouldn't.
    The ability to get into little places where bigger boats can't.

    Basically it's a smaller approach to everything.

    Personal requirements
    (not boat requirements)...patience, the ability be happy, going slow, the ability to get into your own head and be mindful

    Challenges, don't like: fighting strong currents or headwinds... on the Delta, powerboats with enormous wakes... unpleasant insects....blisters on your hands.

    I'm with Tom. A little discomfort don't bother me, none. Now, there are limits. I don't need to be MISERABLE.
    Last edited by Alan H; 11-17-2020 at 11:35 PM.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post

    Long open water passages where it's hard to maintain any sense of making progress--that can be mentally challenging. Again, for me the solution is to fully inhabit the moment, rather than trying to dissociate. Keeping your awareness on what you are doing--even (or especially) when it's uncomfortable--makes it interesting and enjoyable, or at least not miserable, for me.
    This really resonates with me - open water is a whole different ball game mentally, without the instant gratification of changing scenery you get on rivers. I think it is why I find Rick's experiments with things like steering sails and electric assistance so fascinating, stuff that could help you relax into the row and settle into a 'flow state' while gliding along.

    I know I am a bit one-note on the Venetian stuff but when I tried it I was just blown away by the rhythm, comfort and the view.

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
    Rowing with crossed oars like in the first photo is insanely tricky (I never got remotely close to success despite several attempts with an excellent teacher) and it might be difficult to get enough spread between the rowlocks in a duck punt. There is another way though, from the other side of the Adriatic - the Batana from Rovinj (which is a sea boat):

    Oh, I know! I actually row the punt a lot, as it’s ergonomics suit me pretty well, if I sit on the floorboards just abaft the thwart.

    With long enough oars to be worth a damn, it’s definitely cross handed, but it becomes second nature; they tell me.

    I have actually rowed the punt facing forward quite a bit.

    I was actually joking about the extensions. But, I am right there with you. That s’ciopon you posted is just about exactly the thing I’ve been dreaming up for around here.

    Somewhat I can pole and row and sleep in, if need be. Somewhat to poke around all the shallow water we got, and maybe find some of the delicious fishes therein.

    That picture with the forward rowing station aft like that... of course, you seem to post LOTS of pictures of boats I like.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    The piece of tech that makes a difference on open water is just a GPS speedo. It can take a long time to see if you are making progress by landmarks, if you can even see land. The GPS shows whether you are going somewhere or just wasting all your energy. On SF Bay I have crossed eddy lines and seen the speed jump, so you know which side to stay on.

    BTW Tom, I'm not sure you are an official Row-Cruiser™ - one who prefers week long trips of 20 miles per day by oar power only. I would say you are a Sail-n-Oar™ type, a sailor who uses oars as auxiliary. (Just kidding, channeling my inner McMullen .)

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post

    That picture with the forward rowing station aft like that... of course, you seem to post LOTS of pictures of boats I like.
    Yes, I love that look too.


  8. #78
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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
    Yes, I love that look too.

    Oh, yes! Yes, yes, yes! Are these flat bottomed “three board” boats, or is the shape more sophisticated? They look like nothing more than really lean skiffs.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Oh, yes! Yes, yes, yes! Are these flat bottomed “three board” boats, or is the shape more sophisticated? They look like nothing more than really lean skiffs.
    Yes that one is - a 'Mascareta', though some varieties have curved sides (all flat-bottomed though). The best places to have a drool are:

    http://www.veniceboats.com/eng-fleet.htm

    and:

    http://www.velaalterzo.com/

    The second link is focused on sailing which is, surprisingly, very much a minority interest on the lagoon. Rowing is king.

    Another area of inspiration might be further east, I believe that 'Sampan' means 'three planks'?
    Last edited by Clarkey; 11-18-2020 at 03:15 PM. Reason: ballsed everything up.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Quote Originally Posted by rgthom View Post
    The piece of tech that makes a difference on open water is just a GPS speedo. It can take a long time to see if you are making progress by landmarks, if you can even see land. The GPS shows whether you are going somewhere or just wasting all your energy. On SF Bay I have crossed eddy lines and seen the speed jump, so you know which side to stay on.

    BTW Tom, I'm not sure you are an official Row-Cruiser™ - one who prefers week long trips of 20 miles per day by oar power only. I would say you are a Sail-n-Oar™ type, a sailor who uses oars as auxiliary. (Just kidding, channeling my inner McMullen .)
    I agree! I plead guilty! Usually when I can sail, I do. So, not a row cruiser at all, and every post I've made to this thread should be regarded with deep suspicion if not outright hostility!

    Tom
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  11. #81
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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
    Yes that one is - a 'Mascareta', though some varieties have curved sides (all flat-bottomed though). The best places to have a drool are:

    http://www.veniceboats.com/eng-fleet.htm

    and:

    http://www.velaalterzo.com/

    The second link is focused on sailing which is, surprisingly, very much a minority interest on the lagoon. Rowing is king.

    Another area of inspiration might be further east, I believe that 'Sampan' means 'three planks'?
    Clarkey,

    thanks so much for your Venice-oriented posts here! A really nice change of pace. It wasn't until my wife convinced me to watch a Rick Steves episode on Venice that I had ANY idea just what the lagoon is like, or how big it is, or how many islands and cities it holds. So interesting to see their very different approach to propulsion.

    Tom
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  12. #82
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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    So, what's the "competition" here? If I decided NOT to go this route, what would I do?

    Well, I used to own a CLC skerry, as I mentioned a few times in the thread. I loved rowing the skerry but I never really took to it as a sailing boat. One day I went out and flipped her over in the Redwood Creek turning basin. This was a controlled environment where I was no more than 150 yards from shore, but in deep water that wouldn't eat the top of the lug yard if she turned turtle. It wasn't hard at all to get her to flop over on her side. I just got into a good, solid 18 knots of wind and hoisted the sail, but before it was up all the way I pushed the rudder over so she went beam-to the wind.BAM.

    She didn't invert...I had a hollow, plugged aluminum mast. She didn't sink, the flotation chambers kept her up. On the other hand, I could not get her to stay upright long enough to get back in the boat. Even with the sail down, the windage of the mast and the lack of stability with the boat full of water meant she went right back over again. I had to take the mast out...it floated... and then she'd stay upright. I got back in, *barely*, but she was so low in the water that I couldn't bucket her out. Every little wave put another two bucketloads of water in the boat. I wound up drifting across the basin and fetching up on the docks on the leeward side. There, I bucketed her out and rowed away.

    That experiment convinced me that this was NOT the boat to take on any extended trip where I would see any sort of open water. I also learned that getting into a small boat when you're wearing an inflatable lifejacket is NOT easy. In fact, that's worth a thread all on it's own. The other thing I learned, which comes into play in this thread, is that I'm pretty convinced that a sailboat is a sailboat and a rowing boat is a rowing boat and that something that tries to evenly balance both, is not a compromise I'm willing to make. Not to say that a rowboat can't have a sail for SOME situations, but in general...no.

    So do I "dinghy cruise"...or "row cruise" with the possibility of maybe hoisting a sail now and then? For the Texas 200, the "dinghy cruise" boat is the way to go. To drift down the Missouri Breaks, take the rowboat. In the Delta, they both work, they're just different. For tackling the Puget Sound Water Trail, either way works, they're just wildly different experiences. If I want to do the R2Ak prelude, the 70/48 then the rowboat is the ticket.


    So right now, if I go the "row cruise" route, I want a boat that is 90% designed for rowing, and gosh, MAYBE I could think about putting up a short mast and a sail if the conditions are just right. The boat has to have enough flotation built into it to enable it to sit high enough, when flooded, to allow it to be bailed out.

    The competition, so to speak is this....

    6f969d86199cb596bc5ac3543f8c22a7.jpg

    which in that photo is being raced, but which can be built with a small cuddy cabin...then called the "Caragogne"

    Last edited by Alan H; 11-20-2020 at 12:33 PM.

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    I have plans...a buddy gave them to me, for a slightly shortened version of the Caravelle / Caragogne. The French boat that's the one design is just a tich longer than 15 feet. I have plans for a 14' 4" version. The boat is beamy and stable, it's build with inside flotation tanks, and I would probably build it with an offset daggerboard instead of the centerline centerboard. That would open up the space in the middle of the boat for sleeping.

    I'm about a year away from the build, so you are all helping me coalesce my thoughts.

    Another pic of the Caragogne..

    dbf76c7ac82fe8043aac5a1dc50413d2.jpg

    it would have oars on it, to do that last two hundred yards into the anchorage or the marina or to the launch ramp when the wind dies, but that is NOT a row-cruiser.

    It's one or the other.
    Last edited by Alan H; 11-18-2020 at 04:15 PM.

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    This is the problem with Row-Cruising™. everyone wants to add a sail. I should not be one to talk, since I'm adding a motor....

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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
    Yes that one is - a 'Mascareta', though some varieties have curved sides (all flat-bottomed though). The best places to have a drool are:

    http://www.veniceboats.com/eng-fleet.htm

    and:

    http://www.velaalterzo.com/

    The second link is focused on sailing which is, surprisingly, very much a minority interest on the lagoon. Rowing is king.

    Another area of inspiration might be further east, I believe that 'Sampan' means 'three planks'?
    3A93D1BA-6317-482C-B5A5-25230900BEB8.jpg

    04B76CF6-3B23-4F3B-B11D-51BF214F7534.jpg

    Can’t find any pictures of my “proper” sampan. They might be in film. I have sort of a thing for three board boats.

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Quote Originally Posted by rgthom View Post
    This is the problem with Row-Cruising™. everyone wants to add a sail. I should not be one to talk, since I'm adding a motor....
    Thus my interest in the kite, when crossing a lot of open water in a dedicated rowing boat. It takes no room to store, it pulls like crazy downwind, it doesn't tip the boat over at all, and when you're done with it...you just put it away in a bag, which takes all of maybe 5 minutes. A Hydra 300 costs about $275-$300 which is a lot less than what you'd spend on rigging, sails, sheets, blocks and so on. AND, when you get to camp if you want to fly a kite for giggles, you can.

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Me too, there is something magical in how three flat boards can be bent into such rakish, swooping shapes. I'd say, looking at your fleet, you are more than ready for something Venetian!

    If you want lines plans I heartily recommend 'Boats of Venice' by Riccardo Pergolis, the most beautiful book I own.

    https://www.amazon.com/Barche-Venezi...5734165&sr=8-1

    It has plans of all the main types (and quite a few more obscure ones) with both Italian and English text.

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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    The kite should work and I look forward to watching you fly it. It does sound busy, taking up both hands to steer the kite and both feet to steer the pedals. Maybe this boat needs windvane steering!

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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Quote Originally Posted by rgthom View Post
    The kite should work and I look forward to watching you fly it. It does sound busy, taking up both hands to steer the kite and both feet to steer the pedals. Maybe this boat needs windvane steering!
    Gut feeling is that Lissa, fitted out with side tanks much like your Walkabout, but leaving enough space in between for yours truly to sleep on floorboards, and with reinforcements to allow a sliding seat system essentially exactly like what you have, would work. I'd add a rudder, set up a rope steering system that would go to pedals, and probably use doorskins to deck over the forward 3 feet of the boat. In other words, a simplified clone of your boat! LOL. Though Walkabout is rather beamier than Lissa, so the side tanks won't be a whole lot of volume.

    The kite/pedals/rudder bit would get built later. Lissa might be a touch easier to row than Walkabout, but then you've been rowing for years and I don't know anything, so we might be something sort of about the same speed, once I figured out at least the basics.

    LOL...a windvane on Lissa! for sure!

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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    I looked into single line kites for a bit - some types can be set up to fly reliably off to one side or other, widening the range of courses that can be held. It is a popular practice for fishing with kites off a beach, referred to 'tacking' the kite. Less of a handful to deploy than a two or more line kite but obviously less performance and manoeuvrability.

  21. #91
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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan H View Post
    The boat has to have enough flotation built into it to enable it to sit high enough, when flooded, to allow it to be bailed out.
    There hasn't been much talk about this so far, but if you are going into big waters, I am convinced that adequate built-in flotation is a must. Did your CLC Skerry have built-in flotation? A wooden boat may not sink, but a wooden boat without flotation, completely full of water, is incredibly unstable, which is what I suspect happened to you.

    On the other hand, with enough flotation, the boat will float high enough after a capsize or knockdown that there will still be somewhat of a righting moment although the boat is half full of water, so you can climb back in a bail her out. Don't ask me how I know this.
    Alex

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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    On the subject of flotation, capsizes, and post-capsize stability:

    One major factor in increasing post-capsize stability, I think, is reducing the free surface area of the water that comes aboard after a capsize. I'd be curious to hear Alex's thought about his Alaska--here are mine:

    I built large buoyancy chambers in the bow (where the Alaska plans show an open anchor well), under each of 3 thwarts, and in the stern. The centerboard case further divides the cockpit between the 2 aft thwarts. My usual gear stowage (2 large duffel-style dry bags lashed in between forward chamber and middle thwart) also greatly reduces the amount of water taken on after capsizing.

    The end result--and I almost could not believe this, but have tested it twice--is that my Alaska is, if anything, MORE stable after capsizing, even though the low sweeping sheerline allows it to take on quite a bit of water.

    As mentioned, I think the division of interior volume into many small compartments is a major cause of this welcome stability. Another is probably the extra beam (thus extra form stability) caused by all the extra weight of water aboard.

    It's a killer good combination for capsize recovery and post-capsize stability. In my capsize tests, I was able to board and bail very easily, and even start sailing immediately, even while the boat was still filled with water.

    I haven't ever heard designers talk specifically about reducing the free surface area by intentional compartmentalization, but it sure seems to work! It does prevent sleeping on the sole, though. But the Alaska's sleeping platform means that's not a problem anyway.

    Tom
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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Tom, reduction of free-surface by internal compartmentalization is a well-established technique in all kinds of vessels, from big ships on down. I first learned about it a zillion years ago as a maritime engineering officer in the navy, in relation to both normal stability and to damage control. The fuel tanks on our frigates had internal baffles to reduce the effect when the tanks were partly empty. The damage control part was the importance of keeping water tight doors and hatches closed, in the event of damage and consequent flooding, among other things.

    So yes, I would say what you have done with your Alaska makes a significant difference. With enough compartments, the addition of water basically just lowers the centre of gravity, which adds stability all on its own. Not sure how much the increased beam accounts for a better stability curve - Alaska's hull shape isn't all that V-shaped. I would have to do the calculations to see how much the hull sinks, and therefore the beam increases, at various added water volumes.
    Alex

    "“I am but mad north-north-west. When the wind is southerly, I know a hawk from a handsaw” " Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2 - Shakespeare

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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    While I hear Alan's concern after having capsized his sailboat, and while my Walkabout does have flotation, I think a row-cruiser on the Delta does not have that much to worry about. Pete Evans was happy to the end of his days rowing all over the Delta and Bay in his open banks dory.


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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    On the subject of flotation, capsizes, and post-capsize stability:

    One major factor in increasing post-capsize stability, I think, is reducing the free surface area of the water that comes aboard after a capsize. I'd be curious to hear Alex's thought about his Alaska--here are mine:

    I built large buoyancy chambers in the bow (where the Alaska plans show an open anchor well), under each of 3 thwarts, and in the stern. The centerboard case further divides the cockpit between the 2 aft thwarts. My usual gear stowage (2 large duffel-style dry bags lashed in between forward chamber and middle thwart) also greatly reduces the amount of water taken on after capsizing.

    The end result--and I almost could not believe this, but have tested it twice--is that my Alaska is, if anything, MORE stable after capsizing, even though the low sweeping sheerline allows it to take on quite a bit of water.

    As mentioned, I think the division of interior volume into many small compartments is a major cause of this welcome stability. Another is probably the extra beam (thus extra form stability) caused by all the extra weight of water aboard.

    It's a killer good combination for capsize recovery and post-capsize stability. In my capsize tests, I was able to board and bail very easily, and even start sailing immediately, even while the boat was still filled with water.

    I haven't ever heard designers talk specifically about reducing the free surface area by intentional compartmentalization, but it sure seems to work! It does prevent sleeping on the sole, though. But the Alaska's sleeping platform means that's not a problem anyway.

    Tom
    This whole topic is very interesting to me. The skerry had flotation tanks in the bow and stern. They were more than enough to keep the boat from sinking, but nowhere near enough to keep it up with enough freeboard to enable bailing the boat out. Getting into the boat at all, would drive the gunwale underwater by a good foot...then I'd slither into the space. The minute I sat up on the thwart, she'd go over again.

    I was envisioning myself in the middle of San Pablo Bay, heading for Vallejo and that happened. No. That's an easy way to have a VERY Bad Day.
    Hm... more compartments, huh?

    I'll be carrying gear in dry bags, for sure, and I also have a couple of dinghy flotation bags. The less structure built into the boat, the better from a flexibility standpoint, but that experience in the Skerry really opened my eyes.
    Last edited by Alan H; 11-18-2020 at 08:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Quote Originally Posted by rgthom View Post
    While I hear Alan's concern after having capsized his sailboat, and while my Walkabout does have flotation, I think a row-cruiser on the Delta does not have that much to worry about. Pete Evans was happy to the end of his days rowing all over the Delta and Bay in his open banks dory.

    What a great photo. Nice morning, there under the Bay Bridge. But look at that dory...that thing is BEEF. Did he put 200 pounds of sandbags on the floor to help with stability?

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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Can you say windage? Pete did not care he just trucked along, sometimes commuting outside the Gate to Bolinas in that thing. It was usually loaded with camp gear, he would sleep with his head on the transom.

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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Quote Originally Posted by AJZimm View Post
    Tom, reduction of free-surface by internal compartmentalization is a well-established technique in all kinds of vessels, from big ships on down.
    I know big ships pay attention to free surface area, especially (obviously) tankers; I was thinking more of small cruising boats, like the typical sail & oar dinghy.

    Makes me wonder--would it be practical to have temporary baffles that could be deployed post-capsize to aid stability? Maybe inflatable dividers? I guess my boat has them built in so I don't need to worry for now.

    I suspect you're right that adding waterline beam isn't a significant part of the added stability in my Alaska post-capsize--maybe a bit?

    Tom
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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Pretty much any floatation/ tied down bags in a boat except ones in the ends will reduce free surface. For max swamped stability side tanks make the most sense. For a row/sail boat if you want to bail it you have to get the board above water, and I kind of like six inches or so of freeboard. For other non sailers, if you thwarts are out of the water when you right it you have a pretty good chance of bailing unless the sea is really big.
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    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Alan you are not looking to build my boat but I'll chime in as a point of comparison. My user boat is still an HV16. I find the prospect of rowing or sailing it almost equally attractive - I say almost because, as simple as it is to put up the rig, it is even more simple to just go rowing. Which I aim to do at least every couple of weeks throughout the year. I get a great deal of satisfaction rowing the boat for many reasons some of which have already been sited - the very intimate connection with the water and environment, the opportunity to be utterly still and merely look and listen. The physical exertion and satisfactory fatigue. Unhindered sky and horizen.

    The 16 is a true round bottom design, with low to moderate deadrise, moderate beam and a distinctive turn of the bilge. This means it is not twitchy and has a reassuring sense of stabililty. More hard core sleek rowing-dedicated designs will be more tender. Other than flat bottom, many of your simple stitch and glue designs will in effect have slack bilges and thus will be more tender and twitchy. I'm not attracted to slack bilges and will trade some reduced wetted surface for a more comfortable feeling on the water. The advantages of light weight has its limitations - once you are out of a dead calm and facing any wind or sea state, weight and momentum can be your friend. A 'board can also be your friend rowing in adverse conditions. I revel, at least for a limited time, in rowing in adverse conditions. Headwind, tailwind, cross sea, no better way to get to know your boat. To cover a little more ground the 16 (just under, LOA) would do better at 17. The model is less burdensome than my 18.

    I have been threatening for a long time to do a row cruise in the san juans without the rig. Then there are those times when thank goodness you have a rig, manna from heaven.

    Being able to sleep aboard is important to me. It's nice to mix it up when there are attractive options over several days aboard or on land. I sleep comfortably on my boat stretched across the aft floorboards. In part this is possible because there is no large aft bouyancy chamber. Bandwagon is cedar on oak, there are no bouyancy chambers at all, fine by me. Happy to employ chambers in a glued ply hull like the 18

    Another point of comparison - I weigh about 165 at 5'9".
    Dude - you weigh 300? How tall...

    You want to row cruise? 15' unless it is quite a burdensome model sounds small for someone your size. In my experience a sustained 3 knots rowing is not realistic in the size boats you have been discussing. I'm not a gym rat, can't see how a gym would prepare you for long days of rowing.

    I remember the first mini cruise and long full day years ago in my little boat. Lotta rowing. My ass was screaming sore, and stayed that way for a while. But really never since.
    E

  31. #101
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    Zbigit
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    2,102

    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Lissa, being rowed by one person...

    Dobler-Lissa-row.jpg

    There isn't a whole lot of internal structure inside the boat. There's a stern "seat"...and flotation compartment that goes from the transom to the last frame. Up in the bow...same thing. This is basically what the skerry had. In Doblers plans, the middle thwart is made to be removable. Plans call for the boat to be made in 1/8th inch plywood, with heavier floorboards. You row from a "seat box", which is literally a wood box, with a padded top. It has feet that slot into holes in the floorboards. You can put "stuff" in the box, it's intended to be storage.

    I really like the looks of the boat for rowing. I could probably drop my skerry rig into Lissa and she'd go just fine, but that's not the point of the boat. ROW cruising.

  32. #102
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Shoreline, Washington
    Posts
    2,390

    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Not a bad looking boat, if she is not too narrow.

  33. #103
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    29,700

    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Another picture of Pete Evans and his Æolus dory


  34. #104
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Zbigit
    Posts
    2,102

    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Hvalsoe View Post
    Alan you are not looking to build my boat but I'll chime in as a point of comparison. My user boat is still an HV16. I find the prospect of rowing or sailing it almost equally attractive - I say almost because, as simple as it is to put up the rig, it is even more simple to just go rowing. Which I aim to do at least every couple of weeks throughout the year. I get a great deal of satisfaction rowing the boat for many reasons some of which have already been sited - the very intimate connection with the water and environment, the opportunity to be utterly still and merely look and listen. The physical exertion and satisfactory fatigue. Unhindered sky and horizen.

    The 16 is a true round bottom design, with low to moderate deadrise, moderate beam and a distinctive turn of the bilge. This means it is not twitchy and has a reassuring sense of stabililty. More hard core sleek rowing-dedicated designs will be more tender. Other than flat bottom, many of your simple stitch and glue designs will in effect have slack bilges and thus will be more tender and twitchy. I'm not attracted to slack bilges and will trade some reduced wetted surface for a more comfortable feeling on the water. The advantages of light weight has its limitations - once you are out of a dead calm and facing any wind or sea state, weight and momentum can be your friend. A 'board can also be your friend rowing in adverse conditions. I revel, at least for a limited time, in rowing in adverse conditions. Headwind, tailwind, cross sea, no better way to get to know your boat. To cover a little more ground the 16 (just under, LOA) would do better at 17. The model is less burdensome than my 18.

    I have been threatening for a long time to do a row cruise in the san juans without the rig. Then there are those times when thank goodness you have a rig, manna from heaven.

    Being able to sleep aboard is important to me. It's nice to mix it up when there are attractive options over several days aboard or on land. I sleep comfortably on my boat stretched across the aft floorboards. In part this is possible because there is no large aft bouyancy chamber. Bandwagon is cedar on oak, there are no bouyancy chambers at all, fine by me. Happy to employ chambers in a glued ply hull like the 18

    Another point of comparison - I weigh about 165 at 5'9".
    Dude - you weigh 300? How tall...

    You want to row cruise? 15' unless it is quite a burdensome model sounds small for someone your size. In my experience a sustained 3 knots rowing is not realistic in the size boats you have been discussing. I'm not a gym rat, can't see how a gym would prepare you for long days of rowing.

    I remember the first mini cruise and long full day years ago in my little boat. Lotta rowing. My ass was screaming sore, and stayed that way for a while. But really never since.
    E
    Your HV 16 is one mighty handsome boat, there's no doubt. And maybe if I decide that row-cruising is going to be The Thing and I build Lissa and find out that I love it, then I might build something like your boat. However, an HV16 is not by any means a 100-hours-and-done boat. Start simple!

    Yes I'm 300 pounds. This is me, in 2018.



    I'm about 6' 2" and while I certainly carry a perfectly adequate spare tire, 8 years of serious weight training for the Highland Games thickened me pretty substantially. I'm retired from the Heavy Athletics now, but still hit the gym a lot. However, all my gym training has been for explosive strength, until recently. That means I trained to be able to exert the maximum amount of strength, and a lot of core torque, for five seconds. Now, my gym workouts used to, and still do, elevate my pulse and breathing levels to cardio levels for the 45-50 minutes I'm in there. This is because I'm not one of those guys who picks up a weight 8 times and then spends the next five minutes looking at their phone. Nowadays I go for walks, a lot n addition to gym time...90 minutes of moderately fast walking on the flat that will get me sweating, but not elevate my heart rate that much. When I backpack with the Mrs. I can go for about 3-4 hours and then I hit the wall. When I hit that wall, I hit it HARD. So for now, rowing all day is probably not in the cards.
    Last edited by Alan H; 11-19-2020 at 04:00 PM.

  35. #105
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    The Garden State
    Posts
    8,588

    Default Re: Talk to me about row-cruising

    yes, I can see why you find the Row Cruiser claustrophobic now. We are about the same height, but you have over 100 pounds on me. I fit neatly into Row Cruiser.
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

    -Dalai Lama

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