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Thread: Shoulder plane

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Quote Originally Posted by p.i. Stazzer-newt View Post
    $275 usd

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    No 1 son gave me the rough casting for a prezzy for home completion.
    Attachment 72669
    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    I would argue with 'main' as a modifier there. I'd call that path 'idiosyncratic'. Not bad or unworkable... just unusual. Off the beaten path.

    But interesting. Where'd he find the casting? Was it a good one? How'd he know?
    As it was a prezzy I did not ask. Google may be our friend here. Do you think it to be a good casting?
    If I can do that anyone can although i did use a machine shop to true up the sole and mill the sides parallel.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  3. #38
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    That's a good-looking plane there, Nick.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    But interesting. Where'd he find the casting? Was it a good one? How'd he know?
    multiple partys have sold kits or castings, every so often they show up on eBay or the like. From what Iíve seen, in the end not cheaper than buying.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    I have a Stanley No 90 and would never dream of parting with it.I don't have much need for a longer shoulder plane,but if I needed such a beast an older Record or Clifton would probably be on the list.
    I also have a Stanley 90. One of the most useful tools I have. Very good ergonomics, works great.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    I need a better one. I donít use one often, but occasionally I need to clean up a rabet or other inside corner, and I reach for the only one I have which just frustrates me no matter how well I try to set it up. The Veritas is nice but itís $200 and probably overkill for what I need. But I definitely need something better than this.

    Attachment 72644
    Hi Ron

    You may wish to examine the Clifton line of shoulder planes. They are well crafted and last a lifetime. Instead of thinking of your investment as a one time charge, consider that the cost is amortized over decades of use.

    $200 plane over 20 years is $10/year. Doesn't sound so bad now, does it?

    Get yourself some real quality. Clifton is that. I can heartily recommend them.

    Brad

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    It’s too bad I just sold these three veritas planes on the Canadian woodworking forum. I find that at half price veritas stuff sells fast.4CEC0F52-63AC-46E3-88E4-713EAB062DA0.jpg

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Depends what you're trying to do...

    That Stanley 75 is a standard angle bevel down bullnose rebate. Its not low angle if you're planing end grain. They have a poor reputation at the best of times. As do most of recent Stanley shoulder planes. A standard angle old 78 (the Record 778 has the best microadjuster) have a better reputation and with the fence more use in boatbuilding. Loads of them about £30 UK price. The older Woden and preceeding that WS from Birmingham have solid tool steel blades. They stay sharp for ages. For really getting into corners some people saw the front piece off and have a 'standard angle chisel plane'.

    If it's big rebates well there's standard angle rebate block planes, plus the bigger bench carriage planes: the 10 1/2 (4 size) a narrow 10 1/4 if your lucky, and 10 (5 sized) among others.

    If your are actually planing wide end grain tenon shoulders, and need a low angle bevel up shoulder plane, then the Vertitas does have a very good reputation, otherwise a Quangsheng or Woodriver copy of the Preston which became Record shoulder planes are cheaper. A quality used Record from 1900-1950 era will fetch about the same money. The one with fine adjustment on the mouth makes sense to me: the Record 073 or the 311 if you want the nose off and clear. There's a few original Preston's about and Clifton do expensive ones. If you really tidying up shoulders a sharp paring chisel is ultra low angle, and a fine Marples or Sorby paring chisel with a nice London best handle and a beautifull balance with solid cast tool steel blade would be £25 and is a joy to use. You can use a hand router to level of tenon's easily if you're doing that. I bought the Lie Nielson 71 closed mouth (same price as an old Stanley but comes complete, flat and sharp) and it makes me feel like a woodworking God. Damm it's good. Alot of functionality with a hand router plane, far more than the shoulder plane. Depends what you're doing though. If you're trying to use a shoulder plane for ploughing dado's, you'd get a lot of joy with a proper plough plane: a 43 or a 50.

    A £80 quangsheng low angle block rebate would also be a pretty usefull tool for small boat plywood lapped construction end grain and plank rebates if you don't need the bullnose feature.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 11-12-2020 at 08:34 AM.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    I have one of these as well. It has been perfectly satisfactory, gets the job done in rapidly curving rabbets. For anything else I prefer a bigger rabbet plane. Getting two hands on it and more weight mean you can get a lot more work done quickly.





    My preferred plane is like this, but with a little knicking blade for clean shoulders across the grain. I think it was $7 at a garage sale.


    I could be wrong and hesitate to wax pedantic but I believe the 78 is a fillister plane, no?

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Quote Originally Posted by willin woodworks View Post
    I could be wrong and hesitate to wax pedantic but I believe the 78 is a fillister plane, no?
    Yes I believe it is, though one could argue that without the fence or depth stop it's just a regular old rabbet plane. Either way, it works for me!

    I think if I was spending Ron's money, I might go for the Veritas. I like their other planes that I own.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Have a look at Rod Cosman's YouTube channel - here's a link to his piece on shoulder planes. I have few old ones that I use quite a bit.....MUST BE VERY SHARP!! (I always say that about planes though!).
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qqWSKwgCxk

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Ron

    Its the shoulder plane you reach for that counts. I've got at few.

    Plane.jpg


    I never reach for the Record 77, middle. Why? Dunno. Its a quality plane but I have choices and preferences! The bed seems a bit on the short side.

    I usually don't reach for the Record 73, upper left corner. Why? Big and heavy. It is a beast and will take care of it all, but its just not comfortable. Absolutely a do-all. Configurable to nearly any task, including bull nose by removing the throat adjustment piece.

    I usually don't reach for the Clifton 420, top right. Why? Similar to the Record 73, its big and heavy. Not as heavy as the 73, but also not adjustable.

    I almost always reach for the Clifton 410, middle right. Why? Light weight, comfortable in the hand. Can use it all day, accurate!

    I usually don't reach for the Clifton 400, bottom right. Why? This is a very small plane. Used only for specialized work.

    When the need for a bull nose comes up, its a toss up between the Preston and the Lie Nielson, depending on the width of the cut required. Substitute a sharp chisel for a bull nose plane, as these are very specialized and really just luxury.

    And that Stanley piece of scrap metal, middle left? Paperweight. The shoulder is entirely too small to be a reference. The blade is at a really steep angle.

    ---------------

    If I was forced to pick one, it would be the Clifton 410. A very close second would be the Record 73, because of the rich feature set; at the expense of user fatigue.

    Brad

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    This rabbit hole has led me to this:

    https://www.lie-nielsen.com/products...plane-w-nicker.

    rabbet-block-sil-iso.jpg

    This ticks so many boxes. Anyone use one? I haven't see this design before (but maybe I haven't been looking). A little pricey for me at the moment, but one of these days I might treat myself...

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    I'm unusually lucky as I've inherited 5 generations of hand tools from both sides of my family and have rarely purchased a "new" tool. I have helped a son and a nephew and apprentices fill out their tool kits from Ebay. Block planes, smoothers and rabbet planes can be had for a fraction of new tool prices if you're willing to spend a little time tuning and fiddling.
    Old Stanley, Sargent, Millers Falls and Union Tools are available all the time and are so much better than what is on the market today. A 50's or 60's vintage Stanley 93 for $100
    is as good a shoulder plane as you can buy.
    Be patient, target what you want and need and there is a goldmine of tools at your fingertips. Good old American Ahrn...

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    That's almost identical to the Sargent 507, less the nickers. Do not ever drop that, the Sargents are notorious for breaking at the arch.

    Get yourself a Stanley 140. Blade runs to the edge of the block plane on one side and the blade is at a skew angle! No fragile arches to break.

    Brad

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    I bought this Stanley 75 paperweight for the sole purpose of cleaning up and fairing the curve along the strake edges.
    I wanted something with a short sole so it would work in the concave sections of each run.
    IMG-3271.jpg
    The strakes are only 4mm ply.
    Handles the abuse.
    Keep the blade sharp.
    Does the job.
    Stanley 75.jpg
    Plan to make a cushion for the pushin'.
    Last edited by Mike1902; 11-12-2020 at 07:46 PM.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1902 View Post
    I wanted something with a short sole so it would work in the concave
    The strakes are only 4mm
    Hi Mike

    I'm glad it works for you.

    The Clifton 400 has a shorter sole to fit in the concave
    20201112_205232.jpg
    It has a taller shoulder so easier to keep square
    And the sole is narrower
    20201112_205252.jpg


    Brad

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Blake Surfboard View Post
    Hi Mike

    I'm glad it works for you.

    The Clifton 400 has a shorter sole to fit in the concave
    20201112_205232.jpg
    It has a taller shoulder so easier to keep square
    And the sole is narrower
    20201112_205252.jpg


    Brad
    Hi Brad,
    Yes, that is definitely a way cooler and more practical plane for the job.
    That Stanley is rubbish really, but it's serving it's purpose.
    Cheers,
    Mike.

    Just to note the exposed edge of the upper strake does not lie square to the plane of the strake below it...in most areas on this dinghy.
    Last edited by Mike1902; 11-12-2020 at 09:44 PM.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Everyone I work with carries a stanley 78 or the equivalent. We also use stanley 75s when the fillisters won't fit. In addition I also have a proper stanley shoulder plane. The shoulder plane works much better for careful trimming but simply isn't tough enough for the job site conditions of shipwright work. The blade is fairly fragile as it is is designed for trimming shoulder end grain, but it is a joy to use. It's sorta horses for courses, for general boat work I would highly recommend one of the stanley or record fillisters, they are an all around work horse. But if you have the money and are willing to get a more specialised tool the proper shoulder plane is nice to have. Personally the shoulder plane is a luxury, the fillisters is essential.

    Nicholas

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1902 View Post
    Hi Brad,
    Yes, that is definitely a way cooler and more practical plane for the job.
    That Stanley is rubbish really, but it's serving it's purpose.
    Cheers,
    Mike.
    Hi Mike

    Perhaps I was a bit rash in my assessment. In my shop, I have alternatives to the Stanley which are more suited to purpose than the Stanley. This obviously does not mean that it therefore becomes a paperweight in anyone else's shop. Just mine. I poorly expressed myself. I have no desire to denigrate tools that others find acceptable.

    Here's a snapshot of the Clifton 410 in action.
    textgram_1599078030.jpg
    What I'm doing is squaring the inside edge of the deck so that it will meet the other squared off deck along the centerline
    textgram_1599077716.jpg
    So the shoulder of the plane is referenced to the central batten with the blade cutting the deck. The decks wrap around the frames (ribs as Tom calls them).

    Brad

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Double post

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Quote Originally Posted by lukes View Post
    This rabbit hole has led me to this:

    https://www.lie-nielsen.com/products...plane-w-nicker.

    rabbet-block-sil-iso.jpg

    This ticks so many boxes. Anyone use one? I haven't see this design before (but maybe I haven't been looking). A little pricey for me at the moment, but one of these days I might treat myself...

    US Lie Nielson prices are more manageable your side of the pond. You have to factor that you can sell a Lie Nielson for 2/3rds the new price on ebay the next day,or keep and use it and get your money back or more in 10-20 years, and have the pleasure of ownership. If you keep and use it, Lie Nielson stuff is free to use! You'll have more fun with it than 0.0001% bank interest. The fit and finish is top notch as you'd expect and the company stands by its products.

    The quangsheng copies (the Lie Nielson are Stanley copies) aren't quite the same quality but are supposed to be pretty good. I find it a bit unpalatable though. For the bench rebate planes, the UK castings from Stanley and Record are thicker and heavier, so for more delicate rebate arches that crack when dropped, I went for those over the 1900-30's light USA Bailey/ Stanley planes which have lighter thinner castings (I prefer these for boat work). The Quangsheng doesn't have a nicker but it's £80 instead of £180 for the Lie Nielson.



    Neither has an adjustable mouth, and a low angle block plane without one is always a bit *hit. Dictum's spec version of the Quansheng rebate low angle block does have an adjustable mouth, the only one I've seen to do so, but no nicker. It has a polished metal top rather than bronze but it's £65 and I think pretty usefull...



    https://www.dictum.com/en/dictum-pla...4-blade-703408

    I've mentioned it before that the Veritas skew low angle block planes with a fence, nickers, a left and a right for port and starboard plank ends would be the absolute tools for small boat plywood plank rebates and end grain. With standard rebate planes the blade is at the wrong angle for the cross grain plies. Each is not cheap at £210 each for an amateur builder. Veritas stuff works perfect though. The Stanley 140 is only one way they didn't do a reciprocal one that we'd need. The Veritas are worth alot secondhand though so cost of ownership would be OK, like the Lie Nieslon's. Skew anything is +£100.



    There was a skew version of the 78 but they're pretty rare and the tool collectors are in on them. Usually +£100 the price of a 78. Standard 78/778's solid in mass numbers for a reason, they're cheap, robust and clearly were good enough for most stuff our Grandpa's did.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 11-13-2020 at 05:03 AM.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Grizzly Tools.com
    Shop Fox bullnose & chisel plane
    Stock # 3750
    About 50 bills
    They ship
    Last edited by goodbasil; 11-13-2020 at 05:38 PM.
    basil

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Yeah, no. That block plane is gonna last about long as it takes you to read this message.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Quote Originally Posted by willin woodworks View Post
    Yeah, no. That block plane is gonna last about long as it takes you to read this message.
    That grizzly is a decent plane, not much worse in quality than the vintage Stanley #92 I owned. Really.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    FWIW, Lie Nielson plane bodies are advertised as being made of ductile cast iron, which is not as brittle as the garden variety cast iron. This should translate into a plane body less likely to crack when dropped onto concrete. I've never had the opportunity of testing this claim, but I have dropped a Record shoulder plane and it broke like a dry cookie.

    Jim

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Quote Originally Posted by goodbasil View Post
    Grizzly Tools.com
    Shop Fox bullnose & chisel plane
    Stock # 3750
    About 50 bills
    They ship
    Excellent. I’ve always had good luck with Grizzly tools. (This one is now listed as #3752 and $85). There is a LOT of great info and experience in this thread. But my personal need is very modest, I just don’t use a shoulder plane a lot. I really like the Veritas, but I just can’t justify $220 for that extra quality that would be lost on me anyway.

    And forget the shipping, I always look for an excuse to drive up Chuckanut Drive to Bellingham and visit the Grizzly showroom. (Plus there is a great Porsche dealer next door, and I want to test drive a Macan. )

    Sidebar:
    Its a running joke that every time we drive to Bellingham to save money on something, it usually costs us a lot more. Needed a hydraulic steering pump and found it was $30 cheaper in Bellingham than in Seattle. But on the way up Chuckanut Drive, we stopped at a little art gallery and she bought a $300 vase. Going to Grizzly to buy an $85 plane and there is a Porsche dealer next door might prove interesting.)
    Last edited by ron ll; 11-14-2020 at 11:13 AM.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    And remember Grizzly is closed on Saturday and Sunday.
    basil

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Quote Originally Posted by goodbasil View Post
    And remember Grizzly is closed on Saturday and Sunday.
    Yes, thanks. Been bitten by that before.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    I just took a look on ebay, there are a half dozen for under $20
    search>stanley 78

    here's one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Sta...cAAOSwdmJfp~c~

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    A lot of those Stanley/Record 78's are missing parts and the sellers don't even know it.
    basil

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Yes, but I have never used the fence or the spur.
    well, maybe once until I learned my lesson. Now I clamp a wood fence where I want to cut, and that pesky spur will just mess up a good shoulder, which is why they are missing.
    All thats needed for most of them is a decent cap and iron.
    (a shoulder plane is pretty specialized, and takes a fine cut, i.e. slow)

    Here's another, no fence, but still has the spur, it looks ok
    buy it now $40
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanley-No-...4AAOSwO-JfpEX-
    Last edited by Canoeyawl; 11-14-2020 at 03:42 PM.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Shoulder plane

    Nick Shade talking about his rebate and rebate edge planes in strip plank construction....


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