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Thread: Havens,Herreshoffs 12s forestay

  1. #1
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    Default Havens,Herreshoffs 12s forestay

    The plans call for a shackle to the stem head.
    is this universally followed or are turnbuckles used.?
    Are there any particular tips using shackles,apart from getting the length of he forestay correct.which seems critical.
    Does the jib sit better?
    Curious as I have never had a boat without the ability to adjust the forestay.
    I just mention that I do realize that tightening the shrouds will adjust the forestay but I may not want to affect the mast.
    Doughdish attach the shackle first but I have read that it was the shrouds attached first and the mast pushed to attach the shackle.
    Apart from saving on a bronze turnbuckle is the shackle better?

    Frobisher

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Havens,Herreshoffs 12s forestay

    Is there a class rule that dictates the use of specific hardware?If not,use whatever will hold the mast up and can be easily sourced.Deadeyes are probably a bit too bulky btw.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Havens,Herreshoffs 12s forestay

    I'd say that the class is so well established and known that the mast rake is known. Also that it's a forgiving hull shape tolerant of some rig variation plus or minus a small amount.
    So it's one less piece of hardware to buy, is unnecessary given the shroud placement and yes the jib sits a lot neater, especially when you drop it . Plus no hang up when you set it.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Havens,Herreshoffs 12s forestay

    Most dingies that I've sailed use the jib halyard to tension the luff.

    When sailing, the forestay is slack. With no jib, the forestay holds up the stick.
    Schooner sailors love to get blown offshore!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Havens,Herreshoffs 12s forestay

    My dinghy is similar to a Haven, but unballasted.

    The shrouds are fixed length to adjustable shroud plates. The forestay ends about 3 inches sort of the bow fitting with a metal eye. A captive pin shackle through the bow fitting, to which is spliced a short piece of grey dyneema. About three wraps up and down between the shackle and eye and the forestay is tensioned before sailing. Its sufficient for a small boat, and one that needs the mast lowering to move it home. Rake still adjustable.

    Seperately my jib gp78 dyneema halyard ends with captive pin shackle for the jib eye.

    personally i like a taut jib straight jib luff without it sagging off, and a tight forestay i think helps. My boat certainly points very high. My jib is just hanked on, so it sits lower than if it was on a roller. Less weight and more efficient. Its got a wite luff. Better performance but a springy sail when down.

    When buying shrouds they’re pretty cheap, i think mine were about 20 each. You can get super duper shrouds which are marginally slimmer for the same strength that costs more but lowers windage. Compacted strand its called, think it was about 1mm thinner pro rata but needs special end fittings. I just went normal. I think all three were thevsame length. The gap to the bow fitting taken care of by mast rake. Can’t quite temember when i measured it a few years ago. If one broke, i could move one atound in a pinch, as the forestay is semi redundant
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 11-08-2020 at 12:33 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Havens,Herreshoffs 12s forestay

    On my Somes Sound I tension the shrouds and the forestay with a pair of deadeyes. This works just fine. But truth be told, once the dyneema shrouds and forestay quit stretching I haven't had to adjust the tension of any since. The last adjustment was in 2016 sometime. I just insert or remove the clevis pin keepers by yanking a bit on the rigging to relieve the tension. Obviously, the rig isn't under a great strain. So I suppose I don't need adjusters at all anywhere. But it would be fiddly to get the exact length required without some adjustment. Having the deadeye arrangement keeps the lowered jib up higher on the forestay but that isn't really any bother.

    Jeff

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Havens,Herreshoffs 12s forestay

    Thanks every one for the information.
    Frobisher

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Havens,Herreshoffs 12s forestay

    For a very long time it has been normal for dinghies in the UK to use shroud adjusters like these to control mast rake.



    The close spacing of the holes allows quite fine adjustment and then the jib is very often set flying and the halyard tension is used to hold the rig tightly in place.Obviously it is a light and simple solution that may not be suitable for something as heavy as a 12.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Havens,Herreshoffs 12s forestay

    Most boats I sail do not have turnbuckles on their fore stays. The usual arrangement is a swagged jaw on the cable with toggle to the chain plate, Small alteration in rake can be made by changing the length of the toggle. It takes some care to get the forestay length right, but it is something that really never has to change and makes getting the rake right every time you stand the mast up a no brainier.
    Eliminating the turnbuckle has the further advantage of permitting you to stop the lowered jib closer to the deck, which is helpful for sail changes or just staying organized with the jib lowered.
    it also permits a tidier sail cover and a better looking moored boat.
    I am kind of a stickler, and was taught that one should remove the jib from a 12 1/2 when leaving it on the mooring. I think it is better for the sail, reduces the windage when the boat is moored, which in turn reduces the strain on the ground tackle, and is one less thing to go wrong when it blows highway speeds unexpectedly in the middle of the night. Also attractive little boats can be considered lawn ornaments, particularly if you can see them from you home. They should improve the view, so something that enhances their appearance when not in use should be a consideration.

    Trigonometry suggests that it is easier to pull the mast forward against the shrouds than to pull the mast aft against the forestay, cosine of the angle and all that. However I always use he forestay to establish the rake and tension the shrouds to achieve rig tension.
    SHC

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Havens,Herreshoffs 12s forestay

    Thanks for the input.I take the point about the turnbuckle.It doesn't really look right either.
    swaged jaw seem a bit too modern but hard splice with shackle are the same thing.
    I will measure when I have mast in situ with dummy rigging.As you say once its set up no need to alter it.
    Frobisher

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