Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 36 to 70 of 78

Thread: Beavers are coming back.

  1. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    12,988

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    U R being silly again.
    No I'm not. Other European countries are rewilding, wolves, bears, and all.

    Of course the UK is no longer in Europe...

  2. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    51,281

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    No I'm not. Other European countries are rewilding, wolves, bears, and all.

    Of course the UK is no longer in Europe...
    Yep, we have an English Channel to stop them walking in under their own steam. European countries are having to live with invasive big predators because they cannot keep them out.
    Last edited by Peerie Maa; 10-26-2020 at 03:04 PM.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  3. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    63,342

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Wolves and bears…. are they attracted by the food sources we represent?

  4. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    42,611

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    I saw lots of bear scat last weekend, when I was out gathering wild mushrooms. Lots and lots of bears in New Brunswick - and this time of year, they're attracted to windfall apples in the orchards.

    Wolves have only been occasional and rumored visitors for about a hundred years, though they do show periodically. They were savagely hunted by people, of course, but nowadays any which try to re-infiltrate from Quebec meet resistance from a good sized population of large hybrid coyotes which have moved in, and tend to out-compete the wolves where there's much human activity. Wouldn't have anticipated that, some years ago.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  5. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    68,256

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Yes, old orchards. It's a hoot to watch a mob of drunk racoons under an apple tree. The new ones to the party have no clue why the first-comers are being such clowns, and little patience with them. The resulting slapstick antics are a bit like a Buster Keaton flick.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  6. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Mukilteo, WA
    Posts
    3,150

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    We are reintroducing wolves to Washington. Apex predators are extremely important to wild ecology.

    Yes some farmers are unhappy and shoot them occasionally. Some people really don't like having any other predators in the area besides ourselves. Our fishermen shoot sea lions sometimes too, hate them with a passion for eating fish. Seems rather un-self aware...

    Here is a very successful case study on why having wolves is beneficial to beaver populations, if you are interested.

    https://www.yellowstonepark.com/thin...nges-ecosystem


    Edit: Oh- here it is with a british accent!
    https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...-a-famous-park
    Last edited by J.Madison; 10-26-2020 at 03:46 PM.

  7. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    12,988

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    European countries are having to live with invasive big predators because they cannot keep them out.
    You are mistaken. Places like Italy are welcoming them and promoting them.

    You don't know what you are missing if you haven't experienced a real wilderness, predators and all. You really should pick a spot in your beautiful island and rewild it.

  8. #43
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    51,281

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    We are reintroducing wolves to Washington. Apex predators are extremely important to wild ecology.

    Yes some farmers are unhappy and shoot them occasionally. Some people really don't like having any other predators in the area besides ourselves. Our fishermen shoot sea lions sometimes too, hate them with a passion for eating fish. Seems rather un-self aware...

    Here is a very successful case study on why having wolves is beneficial to beaver populations, if you are interested.

    https://www.yellowstonepark.com/thin...nges-ecosystem
    I know, both wolves and beavers are good for Yellowstone.
    But this

    Is not Yellowstone.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  9. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    51,281

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    You are mistaken. Places like Italy are welcoming them and promoting them.

    You don't know what you are missing if you haven't experienced a real wilderness, predators and all. You really should pick a spot in your beautiful island and rewild it.
    Where though? The Isle of Weight? Skye?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  10. #45
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Isle of Mull, Scotland
    Posts
    7,487

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Westminster. :-)

  11. #46
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    42,611

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Depends how many sheep and other livestock live up in those hills, rather than down in the fields of the valley.

    The very fertile Fraser River valley in British Columbia is heavily agricultural in the river bottom lands upstream from the big urban centers. An old girlfriend had summer jobs for a couple of years at an agricultural research station in Agassiz, about 2 hours' drive from Vancouver. The green cropped valley floor met almost a wall of mountains and foothills, which included a whole lot of various predators.

    As I recall, the farmers were more irritated with the herbivores that came out and feasted on the crops than with the wolves, bears, and cougars. Though they certainly caused concern and excitement too every now and again.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  12. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    68,256

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    We are reintroducing wolves to Washington. Apex predators are extremely important to wild ecology.

    Yes some farmers are unhappy and shoot them occasionally. Some people really don't like having any other predators in the area besides ourselves. Our fishermen shoot sea lions sometimes too, hate them with a passion for eating fish. Seems rather un-self aware...

    Here is a very successful case study on why having wolves is beneficial to beaver populations, if you are interested.

    https://www.yellowstonepark.com/thin...nges-ecosystem
    I have to sympathize - if not agree - with the fishermen. Having nearly wiped out the salmon runs thru over-harvesting, what used to be a negligible 'take' by the other predators seems huge in the vastly reduced numbers available for netting.

    A case of Schumpeter's 'creative destruction' made visible. Of course they could give up gillnetting... and a lot have. But a certain few are ill-equipped or disinclined to switch careers. I am sympathetic and sad.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  13. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    12,988

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Where though? The Isle of Weight? Skye?
    Skye would be great. Pay off the sheep folks and watch tourism skyrocket.

  14. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    42,611

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    How many centuries has Skye not had big predators (other than humans)? Would they have been wolves, originally?
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  15. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    11,289

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Nothing like a beaver lodge for great fishing structure!
    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

  16. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    51,281

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Depends howmany sheep and other livestock live up in those hills, rather than down in the fields of the valley.

    The very fertile Fraser River valley in British Columbia is heavily agricultural in the river bottom lands upstream from the big urban centers. An old girlfriend had summer jobs for a couple of years at an agricultural research station in Agassiz, about 2 hours' drive from Vancouver. The green cropped valley floor met almost a wall of mountains and foothills, which included a whole lot of various predators.

    As I recall, the farmers were more irritated with the herbivores that came out and feasted on the crops than with the wolves, bears, and cougars. Though they certainly caused concern and excitement too every now and again.
    They are hefted on the fells and are bought down to the lower pastures at need. Those fields also produce hay and silage for winter feed.
    The breakdown of LFA land is:-
    2.2 million hectares in England, 1.8 million hectares of which are in agricultural production; 17% of the utilised agricultural area.
    1.53 million hectares in Wales; 80% of the utilised agricultural area.5.38 million hectares in Scotland; 86% of the utilised agricultural area
    .
    69,220 hectares in Northern Ireland; around 70% of the total agricultural area.
    <snip>
    The latest available data (2014) states there are 33.7 million sheep and lambs in the UK, including
    16 million breeding ewes (AHDB, 2015). In England 61% of the sheep flock utilise 595,614ha of the permanent grassland available and 35% graze 340,885ha of the rough grazing available (Marsh et al., 2012). In England 41% of breeding sheep are found on LFA farms (Harvey & Scott, 2015); 63% of cattle and sheep holdings are in LFAs in Wales (National Assembly for Wales, 2009); 80% of the sheep population in Northern Ireland are within LFAs (Farmers Weekly, 2010); and LFAs in Scotland are home to 91% of breeding ewes (Laurence Gould Partnership, 2004).
    https://www.nationalsheep.org.uk/wor...rt-digital.pdf LFA = ess Favoured Areas
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  17. #52
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    12,988

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    So close to the "mainland", and probably connected during the ice ages, I bet it did.

    You'd have to build a prey population, of course. Red deer, roe deer, fallow deer, boars, and such. And bears - you must have bears!

  18. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    51,281

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    How many centuries has Skye not had big predators (other than humans)? Would they have been wolves, originally?
    Last wolves were killed about 4 centuries ago on mainland Scotland. Dunno if Skye ever had wolves. It is a crofting and fishing community with small crofts running a few sheep and cows.
    From Wikki
    Crofting is still important, but although there are about 2,000 crofts on Skye only 100 or so are large enough to enable a crofter to earn a livelihood entirely from the land
    so that is 2,000 families that George wants to dispossess.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  19. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Isle of Mull, Scotland
    Posts
    7,487

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Possibly the last wolf in Scotland was killed in 1743.

  20. #55
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Gulgong. Central west N.S.W. Australia
    Posts
    3,805

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Compared to the British Isles you must have really ****e weather or crappy shepherds,
    Could be a matter of scale Nick. I went to a sheep sale in Devon (South Molton) and the farmers were bringing in four lambs to sell in little box trailers. Back at home we were taking ours to the sale in multiple triple-deck semi trailers. JayInOz

  21. #56
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    St. Paul, MN Mississippi River Milepost 840.2
    Posts
    12,557

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    We’ve had a pair of beavers in our yacht club the last three years. Right in the middle of the city. Also had river otters this year. The Mississippi is still the big muddy, but it’s cleaner mud now.

    C9045860-9954-4D73-806D-33C2E45043DC.jpg

  22. #57
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    63,342

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by birlinn View Post
    Westminster. :-)
    Plenty of quite unpleasant predators there………...

  23. #58
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    749

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    We have them - almost as numerous as groundhogs. One friend has them dropping trees in her back yard, placing her house in danger.
    Yes, be careful about which wild-life you wish for: My in-laws have a very tiny island in the Belgrade chain in Maine, one year a family of Beaver moved in and dropped 23 trees before we got them relocated, some of the trees were 18" at the base. They would have had no chance of surviving the winter in that habitat: rock shore, no swampy area, etc. They probably ended up there because somebody built a summer place too near their former home. Beaver in this area of Maine typically drop beech, birch, poplar etc so that the crowns end up in the water, and thus under the ice in the winter where they can feed on the foliage. But most of the trees they chomped in this case were too far from the water to do them any good. The business about beaver being conservationists and admirable builders is full of as much hooey as the supposed nobility of bald eagles, who fumble half of what they kill and don't go back for it. Having reached the age of 70, I decided it was time to practice being a curmudgeon.

    Ken

  24. #59
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Farmington, Oregon
    Posts
    14,702

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    in a state of nature, there is nothing wasted.

    but the state of nature ship has sailed.

  25. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Cows
    Posts
    62

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.


  26. #61
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    26,913

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Next, wolves!
    Wolves, hell. I want lions reintroduced.

  27. #62
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    408

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Humans are life too.
    Yes, the most disruptive and destructive of invasive species.

  28. #63
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    12,988

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    so that is 2,000 families that George wants to dispossess.
    I don't want to "dispossess" anyone - just buy out their sheep grazing rights. As you point out yourself, it is a dying industry where you can't make a decent living.

    Dispossession is what you do to build motorways and football stadiums.

  29. #64
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Deepest Darkest Wales
    Posts
    22,733

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    I can foresee a discussion on the clearances....
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

  30. #65
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    51,281

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayInOz View Post
    Could be a matter of scale Nick. I went to a sheep sale in Devon (South Molton) and the farmers were bringing in four lambs to sell in little box trailers. Back at home we were taking ours to the sale in multiple triple-deck semi trailers. JayInOz
    Just goes to show that discussing wolves in the US has sod all relevance to wolves in the UK. Climate, land management and livestock management are totally different.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  31. #66
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    51,281

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by LongJohn View Post
    Yes, the most disruptive and destructive of invasive species.
    Humans? Invasive? Oh, yes right. Pacific islands.
    Mink grey squirrels and signal crayfish in English woods and rivers are pretty disruptive too.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  32. #67
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    51,281

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    I don't want to "dispossess" anyone - just buy out their sheep grazing rights. As you point out yourself, it is a dying industry where you can't make a decent living.

    Dispossession is what you do to build motorways and football stadiums.
    It is their chosen lifestyle. Who are you to tell them that they chose wrong?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  33. #68
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Pleasant Valley NS Canada
    Posts
    21,343

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    We have a pair of beavers in the lake in front of our house. Sometimes they have a kit, too. We named them Igor, Iva, and Justin. A few years ago a second pair visited for for two years, building their lodge in the root system of a wind-blown tree right next to the bottom corner of my lawn. Apparently they didn't like the neighbourhood and moved on, probably to the bigger McGowan Lake half a kilometre away. I rather like them, as they keep the scrub hardwoods at bay, leaving space for the white pine and spruce to flourish. My only beef is that they undermine my lawn at the lake edge for mud to repair their lodge and dam, but I think that it is a small price to pay for the daily entertainment out on the lawn when they come out each morning to bask in the sun and perform their morning ablutions.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  34. #69
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Woodbridge, Suffolk, UK
    Posts
    25,464

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    There is a book - I have a copy and have read it - called “The Last Wolf”, wherein the author contends that the elimination of wolves in the British Isles permitted large scale sheep farming, hence the late Mediaeval wool trade with mainland Europe, which still had wolves.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  35. #70
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    12,988

    Default Re: Beavers are coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Just goes to show that discussing wolves in the US has sod all relevance to wolves in the UK. Climate, land management and livestock management are totally different.
    Who is discussing wolves in the US? Germany and Italy are bringing back wolves. Surely you do not fancy the UK is more densely populated, or fonder of their livestock, or more averse to wilderness.

    We want people in India to coexist with elephants and tigers, and people in Africa to tolerate at least a few lions and wild dogs, but then we go all NIMBY and medieval when it comes to wolves and bears.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •