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Thread: Libertarianism

  1. #1
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    Default Libertarianism

    I would be for it, except for...

    ...how to deal with the 30%.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    I got mines!

    Libertarians are immoral.
    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post

    Libertarians are immoral.
    How so?

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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    How so?

    If you can't figure it out on your own, I doubt I can lead you there.
    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Nasty, brutish, and short.

    (And that's just the teenagers.)
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Republican light for those who insist on being able to date younger women without admitting they voted for Trump.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    Republican light for those who insist on being able to date younger women without admitting they voted for Trump.
    ???

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    libertarian ideals are simply not viable on a crowded planet.

    promoting libertarian ideals on a crowded planet is to endorse suffering of the less fortunate, and is thus immoral, as skip mentions.

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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    libertarian ideals are simply not viable on a crowded planet.

    promoting libertarian ideals on a crowded planet is to endorse suffering of the less fortunate, and is thus immoral, as skip mentions.
    Sadly, human ideals don't seem viable on a crowded planet, no matter the political persuasion. I'm a combination of libertarian and communist, myself

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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    Sadly, human ideals don't seem viable on a crowded planet, no matter the political persuasion. I'm a combination of libertarian and communist, myself
    some ideologies are better for more of us. discernment matters.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
    John Kenneth Galbraith



    Equally true for Libartarians

    Jeff C




  12. #12
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    I suspect some people here are judging ideas by their radical extremes. It's like saying that socialism is evil because of Venezuela.

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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Or conservativism is evil because of the Taliban.

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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    some ideologies are better for more of us. discernment matters.
    On a local level, I've seen no difference in the way people of various persuasions help, or harm, each other.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    I suspect some people here are judging ideas by their radical extremes. It's like saying that socialism is evil because of Venezuela.
    tell us what you mean by libertarianism, and how it fits, pragmatically and ethically, into managing human populations today.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    A nasty, brutish, illiberal ideology that pretends the most pressing problem of society is how the powerful are oppressed by society.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    On a local level, I've seen no difference in the way people of various persuasions help, or harm, each other.
    i agree. on the individual, person to person level, people are not ruled by systems of ideas. which is why libertarianism doesn't work.

    it was a reagan era conservative idea that the work of government to support the indigent and mentally ill should be replaced by charity. in other words, let them beg on your freeway on ramps.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    libertarianism

    dse
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    i agree. on the individual, person to person level, people are not ruled by systems of ideas. which is why libertarianism doesn't work.

    it was a reagan era conservative idea that the work of government to support the indigent and mentally ill should be replaced by charity. in other words, let them beg on your freeway on ramps.
    Althoigh that is one part of it (and here, locally, I can see the result of years of taking the opposite approach, and it's not all roses, I must say), it's not really what it's about as a "philosophy".

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    i agree. on the individual, person to person level, people are not ruled by systems of ideas. which is why libertarianism doesn't work.

    it was a reagan era conservative idea that the work of government to support the indigent and mentally ill should be replaced by charity. in other words, let them beg on your freeway on ramps.

    On ramps are no good. It's the OFF ramps.
    Rattling the teacups.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    tell us what you mean by libertarianism
    How about the Wikipedia definition:

    Libertarianism (from French: libertaire, "libertarian"; from Latin: libertas, "freedom") is a political philosophy and movement that upholds liberty as a core principle.[1] Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and political freedom, emphasizing free association, freedom of choice, individualism and voluntary association.[2] Libertarianism shares a skepticism of authority and state power, but libertarians diverge on the scope of their opposition to existing economic and political systems.
    and how it fits, pragmatically and ethically, into managing human populations today.
    Who said it does?

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    George, perhaps you might provide us a list of societies (historical and present) that embrace libertarianism and what you find admirable about those societies,
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Yeah, like that town in New Hampshire. There’s guns! Guns are good!
    Last edited by Hugh Conway; 10-24-2020 at 09:28 AM.

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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    George, perhaps you might provide us a list of societies (historical and present) that embrace libertarianism and what you find admirable about those societies,
    I admire the philosophy of communism, but cannot name a country or society which embraces it that I would say I admire. Application of a philosophy always fails.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    ^ That.

    I think a good society needs elements of liberitarianism, socialism, capitalism, conservativism, and environmentalism.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    You mean like Democratic Socialism, George? Like that practiced in much of Europe? What I find funny about all this: If we embraced some basic Socialist ideas, such as central payer medical through your taxes along with higher education, many would be more free to practice Libertarianism. If you do not have to worry about working yourself into an early grave for healthcare or putting your kids through school, everything you want to do to be "free" becomes readily available. That is the beauty of a social safety net.
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

    -Dalai Lama

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Who said it does?
    wellll...your o.p. intimates that "libertarianism" would work out fine except for

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    I would be for it, except for...

    ...how to deal with the 30%.
    in other words, libertarianism would be viable for five billion of us, but cant work because of "those" people.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    I think 30% of people would willingly surrender their liberty to demagogues, allow themselves to be turned into minions, and put the rest of us at risk. That means the majority needs a state dedicated to preventing that, which is not very liberitarian.

    Some of you look at this through a US lens, where "libertarian" kind of means extreme right-winger. Think "liberté" in "liberté, egalité, fraternité". Three noble ideals, but impossible to achieve together. Society is perpetually condemned to trying to balance them, with constant tears and gnashing of teeth.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    Republican light for those who insist on being able to date younger women without admitting they voted for Trump.
    Being a libertarian is as much a matter of fashion as it is philosophy. Most of the self proclaimed libertarians will vote a Red ticket but won't admit it. Admitting you voted or will vote for Trump is out. Voting red is in. A libertarian is a Republican who is OK with weed but can't be distinguished from the average red based on the rest of their claptrap. We have superb examples right here on the forum. Don't make me name them.
    Last edited by Lew Barrett; 10-24-2020 at 11:25 AM.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    libertarianism is particularly compelling to the lazy thinker, and to the pothead

    sign me, formerly libertarian
    Last edited by Paul Pless; 10-24-2020 at 11:28 AM.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    d'oh
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    i can accept that george. is talking about "liberty as a core principle", but here in the u.s.a., libertarianism is a white nationalist thing. it's for white patriarchal conservatives who don't like the government promoting rights or equal treatment of women, minorities, gays etc. at the expense of their own right to be assholes.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    libertarianism is particularly compelling to the lazy thinker, and to the pothead
    also to whiney little bitches who don't like to pay taxes
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    Being a libertarian is as much a matter of fashion as it is philosophy. Most of the self proclaimed libertarians will vote a Red ticket but won't admit it. Admitting you voted or will vote for Trump is out. Voting red is in. A libertarian is a Republican who is OK with weed but can't be distinguished from the average red based on the rest of their claptrap. We have superb examples right here on the forum. Don't make me name them.
    Nailin' it!

    When I am king, I see a Triumvirate composed of you, Jim Mahan and Vince Brennan, charged with disabusing selfish morons of their delusions.
    Rattling the teacups.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post

    When I am king, I see a Triumvirate composed of you, Jim Mahan and Vince Brennan, charged with disabusing selfish morons of their delusions.
    when ur king can i have some cushy job, like working for leeg on energy policy?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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