Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 678 LastLast
Results 211 to 245 of 274

Thread: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

  1. #211
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    22,588

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Constitutions are good things, we agree. Where we disagree is with your proposition that only Republics have them, and having one makes a country a Republic.
    We went through this. You couldn't find a constitutional democracy. It's an oxymoron.

    England has a constitution -- I'm told -- but that constitution does not make it a republic. In any case, the US is a constitutional republic. It's not a constitutional democracy.
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

  2. #212
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    42,697

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    We went through this, true. On this topic, my friend, you're the Black Knight.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  3. #213
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    35,455

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post

    The Constitution protects the people from the majority.
    Sez you.

    Right now your precious Constitution is doing Eff All to protect blacks, browns, gays and women from the majority.

    Also, who is to protect the majority from the treasonous bursteds who subvert the Constitution in the name of your despicable idea?

    Literally in the name of Republicanism.

    They would have me believe as you do, that a majority of voters can't turn them out of office.

    Gerrymander?

    Voter suppression?

    Electoral College?

    All mechanisms through which Republicans can murder democracy.

    Of course, you regard democracy as more evil than Communism, so I guess you got THAT going fer ya.
    Rattling the teacups.

  4. #214
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    51,361

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    England has a constitution -- I'm told -- but that constitution does not make it a republic.
    True, we do. It is a living developing body of laws, not a reactionary structure preserved in aspic.
    We can add or change our laws as required by circumstances without some politicized bunch of lawyers overturning the will of the legislature when it makes laws to protect the citizenry from harm.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  5. #215
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    22,588

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    We went through this, true. On this topic, my friend, you're the Black Knight.
    First you mis-state my argument in order to avoid it.

    Then I point out that your argument is contrary to fact, and you admit it.

    Then we do it again.

    That's four limbs, stumpy.
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

  6. #216
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    22,588

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Sez you.
    Right now your precious Constitution is doing Eff All to protect blacks, browns, gays and women from the majority.[quote]

    Our constitution. It doesn't wield itself any more than your tools build a fence by themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Also, who is to protect the majority from the treasonous bursteds who subvert the Constitution in the name of your despicable idea?
    The government is the tool of the majority.
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

  7. #217
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Wow-Ming
    Posts
    20,355

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    "One way to understand this opposition to greater democracy is as a preference for political and constitutional stasis. And this makes sense. The power of the Republican Party in its present form rests on static institutions and a frozen politics. Ending (or radically reforming) the Electoral College would, as Graham said, make it more difficult for Republicans to elect a president, meaning they could no longer win a presidential race while losing the popular vote itself. Creating new states would disturb the balance of the Senate and possibly make it more difficult for Republicans to win a majority in the chamber. Expanding the Supreme Court and the federal judiciary would harm the Republican effort to undermine federal election protection and allow voter suppression and disenfranchisement.

    The Republican Party as currently constituted is a minority party representing a demographically narrow segment of the American electorate. It needs stasis — institutional and constitutional — to survive. Democrats do not. Just the opposite, they need a political system that can grow with and respond to change within our society. Progressive government is necessarily active government. And if we can speak of original intent, it was not the intent of the founders of this country to have a static government, a static constitutional order, or — for that matter — a static society."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/23/o...highlightShare
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! óCole Porter

  8. #218
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    22,588

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Yes, we need to vote for someone to lead the effort to amend the Constitution. What's Biden's position?

    They'd sooner ask him what's his position on self-esteem.
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

  9. #219
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    42,697

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    First you mis-state my argument in order to avoid it.

    Then I point out that your argument is contrary to fact, and you admit it.

    Then we do it again.

    That's four limbs, stumpy.
    Osborne, have you not said, essentially, that the core defining aspect of a Republic different from all other (at least modern) forms of government is a Constitution which forms the foundation for all else?

    That is what I've been arguing against, because I think it is flat wrong. If you believe that forms of government other than Republics can have equally foundational Constitutions, I've missed it. Please correct me, and show me where in the thread you may have made such an assertion.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  10. #220
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    35,455

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    [QUOTE=Osborne Russell;6303183]Right now your precious Constitution is doing Eff All to protect blacks, browns, gays and women from the majority.

    Our constitution. It doesn't wield itself any more than your tools build a fence by themselves.



    The government is the tool of the majority.
    The majority see abortion as a matter for the mother to decide.

    The majority are up to here with the gun rights crap.

    The majority are disgusted with the republican Party Of Sedition.

    The POS is a minority party that has managed to weasel its way into much more power than it should be accorded, and the principle tool they have used is the destruction of the government.

    'Republicans', who insist that the US is a republic, and that democracy is even more depraved than Communism have had their day in the Sun.

    Economics doesn't trickle down, nobody is going to pay more than ten bucks an hour, the jobs are NOT coming back and your odds of being injured by terrorists is an infinitesimal fraction of a percent of the odds that if you are so injured, the offending party will have voted for the POS.

    Their ability to take the idea that the Majority should be prevented from tyrannizizing the Minority and sell it as a justification of that same Minority tyranizizing the Majority would make Grima Wormtongue proud.

    Scroom.

    Everything the Republicans touch either dies or is enslaved.

    Cruelty for the sake of cruelty.

    Poverty for the sake of poverty.

    I have no time for 'republicans'.

    They have bankrupted the country in the name of their bankrupt ideas.

    It is time for them to evaporate, never to condense again.
    Rattling the teacups.

  11. #221
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    22,588

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Osborne, have you not said, essentially, that the core defining aspect of a Republic different from all other (at least modern) forms of government is a Constitution which forms the foundation for all else?

    That is what I've been arguing against, because I think it is flat wrong.
    No, only that that is what distinguishes a republic from a democracy, that being the topic -- USA, republic or democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    If you believe that forms of government other than Republics can have equally foundational Constitutions, I've missed it. Please correct me, and show me where in the thread you may have made such an assertion.
    Huh? England has a constitution and isn't a republic. But I don't see the relevance.
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

  12. #222
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    42,697

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    My argument all along, Osborne, has been that Constitutional monarchies and Constitutional republics, as currently present in the world, present exactly the same likelihood of protecting the rights of their citizens. And that those which do so, use representative democratic institutions as defined in those Constitutions as a core part of how they do so.

    Do we agree? Or, as you have argued above, do you still hold that Constitutional monarchies provide no such durable protections?
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  13. #223
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    8,024

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    No, only that that is what distinguishes a republic from a democracy, that being the topic -- USA, republic or democracy?
    Dog, or greyhound?

    False binary.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  14. #224
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Above flood level, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    18,609

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    But I don't see the relevance.
    None so blind that will not see...

    Jarndyce and Jarndyce

    The Mighty Pippin
    Mirror 30141
    Looe
    Dragon KA93

  15. #225
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    22,588

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    My argument all along, Osborne, has been that Constitutional monarchies and Constitutional republics, as currently present in the world, present exactly the same likelihood of protecting the rights of their citizens. And that those which do so, use representative democratic institutions as defined in those Constitutions as a core part of how they do so.

    Do we agree? Or, as you have argued above, do you still hold that Constitutional monarchies provide no such durable protections?
    Likelihood is not the question, structure is the question. Nothing is worth a S if the people aren't worth a S.

    Structure wise, it's simple.

    1. Without republican institutions, which include the separation of powers and judicial review, it comes down to: In a democracy, the legislature can vote away minority rights tomorrow.

    2. In a republic, they can't.
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

  16. #226
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    42,697

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    But in a Constitutional monarchy, what happens Os?

    (Careful, this is where that creeping "Black Knight" thing caught you before. )
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  17. #227
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    35,455

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    Likelihood is not the question, structure is the question. Nothing is worth a S if the people aren't worth a S.

    Structure wise, it's simple.

    1. Without republican institutions, which include the separation of powers and judicial review, it comes down to: In a democracy, the legislature can vote away minority rights tomorrow.

    2. In a republic, they can't.
    OK, so the US is NOT a republic.

    Got it.
    Rattling the teacups.

  18. #228
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    22,588

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    But in a Constitutional monarchy, what happens Os?

    (Careful, this is where that creeping "Black Knight" thing caught you before. )

    For crying out loud! Number 1! Parliament votes and your rights go away! How many times do I have to say it?

    Careful, you're starting to sound quite thick.
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

  19. #229
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    35,455

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    For crying out loud! Number 1! Parliament votes and your rights go away! How many times do I have to say it?

    Careful, you're starting to sound quite thick.
    OK, now I've seen everything.
    Rattling the teacups.

  20. #230
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    42,697

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    You've still got that flesh wound, Osborne my friend. might want to get it looked at.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  21. #231
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    35,455

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    For crying out loud! Number 1! Parliament votes and your rights go away! How many times do I have to say it?

    Careful, you're starting to sound quite thick.
    Ahem.

    Aren't you the wild-eyed feller what keeps insisting that those rights are bestowed by the Creator, and can never be taken away?

    That no matter how many times those rights are denied, they still exist?

    I think that you need to reflect upon the wages of republicanism when it is not tempered with democracy.

    'Republican' philosophy led inevitably to Trump.

    Now, it may be that EVERY form of government is doomed to failure in practice, simply because the practitioners are human and 'people' are greedy, selfish cowards easily corrupted by bribery and coercion*, but the republic is NOT above the fray.

    If you don't believe me, look at any one of hundreds of Republican traitors now blithely wandering the halls of power, laying waste to the Constitution they have sworn a blood oath to uphold.





    * Note that not 'every person' answers this description, but that 'people' do.
    Last edited by oznabrag; 10-24-2020 at 09:02 AM.
    Rattling the teacups.

  22. #232
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    51,361

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    For crying out loud! Number 1! Parliament votes and your rights go away! How many times do I have to say it?

    Careful, you're starting to sound quite thick.
    So, what rights have I lost Osborne?
    Parliament votes and gives my fellow countrymens rights stronger protections. You have posted that the French Constitution prevented that, and we know that the US will not even try because the Supremes would rule such legislation out.
    I'll stick with democratic government thanks.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  23. #233
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    22,588

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    OK, so the US is NOT a republic.

    Got it.
    What in the world are you talking about?
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

  24. #234
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    22,588

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    You've still got that flesh wound, Osborne my friend. might want to get it looked at.
    I answered your question. Do you have another?
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

  25. #235
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    8,024

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    I answered your question. Do you have another?
    No. I'm pretty sure he is merely pointing out that you answered incorrectly.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  26. #236
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    42,697

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Takes quite a process to amend the Canadian constitution, actually. First Parliamentary approval, as if it were any other bill. Then approval by 2/3 of the Provincial and Territorial legislatures, which must also comprise more than half of the Canadian population at the time. That isn't just a legislative change in the Federal government any more than the American Constitution's amending process is simply an act of Congress. In addition, as you noted earlier, the Canadian constitution includes (inadvisably, IMO) a "notwithstanding clause," which means that a particular province or territory could refuse for that Constitutional change affecting their population - providing an "out", but also providing an additional incentive in terms of national unity to not impose a change which incontrovertibly violated the wishes of a particular minority population (that province's citizens). So, hardly the easy process you've imagined where Parliament by itself can dispose of anything. Which would go some way to describe why we have had no changes to rights in our Constitution since the Act was repatriated in 1982. The UK, not a Federal nation but a unitary one, doesnt have that complexity. But if, say, Georgia or Wyoming were a sovereign state with a Constitutional Republic form of government ... and no internal state divisions to become a Federation.. would their citizens not face exactly the same issue as Britain?
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  27. #237
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    22,588

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Takes quite a process to amend the Canadian constitution, actually.
    Who said anything about amending the Canadian Constitution?
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

  28. #238
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    42,697

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    You argued in #225 and #228 that in something other than a Republic, rights protected as fundamental by a Constitution could be merely legislated away, through act of Parliament. I showed that in Canada's Constitutional Monarchy, that is not true.

    A legislative act by the Federal government is, as in America, one part of a much more involved process, which protects the rights so protected from being erased by some version of Tyranny of the Majority. The precise mechanism is different from how it works in America, but to be honest there are some similarities. A Federal act and 2/3 of the States in America, a Federal act a d 2/3 of the Provinces/territories in Canada ... also comprising over 50% of the total population of the country.It was intended to be impossible in America to strip citizens' rights by a mere majority in the Federal legislative branch - and pretty damned difficult even if someone wanted to try it via a Constitutional amendment.

    So too in Canada.

    We agree that in terms of law, it's the foundational nature of Constitutions as opposed to mere bits of legislation from one or another body which intentionally creates those roadblocks, those protections. What you don't permit yourself to acknowledge, Os, is that these Constitutional protections exist both in effective Constitutional Republics, and equally effectively in other forms of Constitutional governments. Like, for instance, where I live.

    And your stolid refusal is both simply flat wrong as a point of fact, and quite offensive.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  29. #239
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    8,024

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    And your stolid refusal is both simply flat wrong as a point of fact, and quite offensive.
    Yes, it is. A suggestion:

    Tell him, "All right--we'll call it a draw." And then walk away.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  30. #240
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Above flood level, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    18,609

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Is Osbourne really Sam F?
    Jarndyce and Jarndyce

    The Mighty Pippin
    Mirror 30141
    Looe
    Dragon KA93

  31. #241
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    51,361

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    Is Osbourne really Sam F?
    No, Osbourne has not yet creatively edited a C&P to change its meaning.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  32. #242
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Above flood level, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    18,609

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    ...Well yeah! He appears to be doing it to his own words, and those who respond to him instead.
    Jarndyce and Jarndyce

    The Mighty Pippin
    Mirror 30141
    Looe
    Dragon KA93

  33. #243
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    22,588

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    You argued in #225 and #228 that in something other than a Republic, rights protected as fundamental by a Constitution could be merely legislated away, through act of Parliament. I showed that in Canada's Constitutional Monarchy, that is not true.
    It is, as I told you in #48. It is an explicit feature of Canada's so-called Charter Of Rights And Freedoms:

    Section 2 declares:

    2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

    (a) freedom of conscience and religion;

    (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

    (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and

    (d) freedom of association.
    Section 33 declares:

    (1) Parliament or the legislature of a province may expressly declare in an Act of Parliament or of the legislature, as the case may be, that the Act or a provision thereof shall operate notwithstanding a provision included in section 2 or sections 7 to 15 of this Charter.
    The stated rationale of this provision is to give legislatures the power to expressly negate fundamental human rights by mere legislation. Simple majority vote

    In the US, it might go like this:

    New Law X

    Section 1: All government employees must recite a Baptist prayer at the beginning and end of every work day.
    Section 2: This is such a good idea, we can't let the freedom of conscience get in the way, so the First Amendment is set aside by order of us, the democratic part of the government.
    Last edited by Osborne Russell; 10-24-2020 at 08:31 PM.
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

  34. #244
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    42,697

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Osborne, I apologize. This stuff means an awful lot to me, which obviously keeps me writing busily.

    I've become snarky and sarcastic, in my head sometimes more than on the page even, and I don't like it. It matters to me, but not as much as a friendship developed here over years, with someone I respect.

    I'm gonna try to put my pen down on this one; best to you.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  35. #245
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    22,588

    Default Re: On Twitter, American Senator Mike Lee downplays the importance of democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Osborne, I apologize. This stuff means an awful lot to me, which obviously keeps me writing busily.

    I've become snarky and sarcastic, in my head sometimes more than on the page even, and I don't like it. It matters to me, but not as much as a friendship developed here over years, with someone I respect.

    I'm gonna try to put my pen down on this one; best to you.
    Forget about it, we're cool. But I'm still unsure what you're telling me. I bring up what Canadian law says, and you don't say it's not the law, or that I've mis-stated it, or anything at all. It makes me wonder if you even read it. That seems wildly unlikely but I have no other hypothesis.
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •