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Thread: Building the CoPogy 18

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Those panel platform clips are slick! I had to look them up. How many kits did you have to buy and what's your spacing? Think that'd be sufficient to support 4mm ply?
    I bought 3 kits, which come with clips for 6 cross pieces each. I think I spaced them about 16" apart, which was fine for the 9mm. I'm about to scarf up some 6mm for the top strake and raised topside pieces. I'll let you know when I get to the layout and cutting how bendy that spacing is for it. I suspect you might need closer spacing for 4mm.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Funny, I remember Cold Cure from the '80s as well. Haven't thought about it in years but it's useful to know that it's still around.

    Regarding the panel support kit. I like it and am tempted to get the same setup but what's the advantage over just using a piece of sacrificial 1/2" MDF sitting on top of 2x4s? I guess it's a bit easier to move the clip support structure around since it breaks down and would be lighter? Right now I just have a piece of MDF that I use until it gets too beat up, and then swap it out for a new one.
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Chris,
    I think the advantage is that Alex doesn't have to store that big chunk of MDF in his shop. I used to work in an old model "T" size garage and storage was a major issue. Not so much now, but at 72 I'm not fond of tossing around whole sheets of ply.
    Alex,
    Looking forward to seeing your work. Great looking design! I'm anxious to see how Roberts develops the rest of the design. The cabin is reminiscent of the Gartside 170:
    IMG_4959.jpg

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Chris,
    I think the advantage is that Alex doesn't have to store that big chunk of MDF in his shop. I used to work in an old model "T" size garage and storage was a major issue. Not so much now, but at 72 I'm not fond of tossing around whole sheets of ply.
    A fair point. I use a half sheet but even so not having sling a half sheet of 1/2" MDF around would be an advantage for sure. Ok then!
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Chris and Hugh,
    Hugh is correct - storage space is major consideration. As it is I'm temporarily storing the completed strakes under the boat shelter outside the shop. Also, while I've done something similar to the MDF for single sheets of ply, that gets very awkward when dealing with a 24' long panel and 18' long strakes.

    The cabin/pilothouse is somewhat reminiscent of the Gartside 170, but that boat is 2' longer, 15" wider and 5" deeper. Simply don't have room to build a boat that big in my shop. I also am not enamoured of the aesthetics of outboards hanging off transoms, even though they work just fine.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Those clips look very cool. What I use for cutting large sheets is 2" thick 4'x8' blue foam sheets from big box store. Quick to set up, very stable and very safe. Can't believe I used to cut ply sheets on sawhorses...

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Nearly done making strakes. The last long panel is 6mm ply and needs to yield 4 strakes: 2 upper topside hull strakes and 2 strakes for the raised topsides above the sheer.


    I managed it, but just. Made the paper patterns, put them down and shuffled them around until they all fit.


    As you can see, there was just enough room at the pinch point to get the saw blade past.


    You can also see in the first picture the expensive new gel-filled knee pads I bought for this. My knees don’t take kindly to hard surfaces any more – these were worth every penny I paid for them.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Hmm. It always surprises me to see how squiggly and crescent-y lapstrake planks are when laid flat.

    My (strip-planked) boat has 66 planks. All of them were straight, untapered, un-twisty shapes on the flat, but it's curvy enough in 3D. Sure makes planking simpler!

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Hmm. It always surprises me to see how squiggly and crescent-y lapstrake planks are when laid flat.
    Tom
    Ever lay out the peel from an apple that's been peeled with one of those corer/peeler contraptions? Looks a lot like boat planks except joined end to end. Same issue - covering a 3D round surface with 2D material.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Now, that apple peel is a good visualization. I kind of know why "straight" planks look crooked on the flat, but that has solidified my understanding.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    I am in!
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Great to see you're building once again, Alex, but sorry to hear why! As I age (and imagine increasing decrepitude) I've been looking at my future-boat requirements, and your design brief is just about the same. However, I will need room for two on some voyages, as my partner of almost-47 years still likes spending time on water with me, so I look forward to seeing the accommodation details of CoPogy 18 as they develop.Cheers, Dale

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by dsimonson View Post
    I've been looking at my future-boat requirements, and your design brief is just about the same. However, I will need room for two on some voyages, as my partner of almost-47 years still likes spending time on water with me, so I look forward to seeing the accommodation details of CoPogy 18 as they develop.Cheers, Dale
    Dale,While I will be mostly sailing solo, there will be room below for a double berth. It would be a little snug, but should be doable.

    I haven't posted anything lately due to a hiatus caused by working on a minor house reno project. Nearly done with that and should be able to get back to making sawdust soon
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Hi Alex, I'll be following your build. Interesting boat. Really curious to see the cabin/interior take shape.

    Regarding motors. For my 6m proa, I used a 600W electric and a 2.5hp gas engine. The proa weighed maybe 700lbs with me in it and was less than 2 feet beam at the waterline, so easy to push. The gas engine would push the proa to more than 6 knots, screaming all the way. The electric would push to about 4 knots, but was sensitive to headwinds. Different propellers make a large difference in speed and efficiency.

    CoPogy 18 has more windage, and more drag, so maybe 2.5hp would be taxed. If you spring for a new(er) outboard, keep in mind you can get more power without additional weight in many cases. For example, Merc/Nissan/Tohatsu 4, 5, and 6 hp use the same engine with different carbeurators and settings to achieve the hp rating.

    I have to say that I really enjoyed using the electric. It was quiet, smoother and had more precise control than the gas outboard. And no fuel to spill. I was always concerned about range, but never managed to run out of charge. I only charged from a 100W solar panel, and I figured I had over 20km range. Fully recharged in 2 sunny days while sailing or sitting. The type of batteries and charge controller make a big difference - I used an MPPT controller and LiFePO4 battery pack. Both recommended.

    Anyway, this is a build thread, not an electric power thread, so I'll step down from my soap box.

    Looking forward to applauding your progress.

    Curtis

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Curtis,
    Thanks for the pointers. I would dearly like to make electric work, but for the kind of extended trips up the coast I have in mind, there is just no way to get the range out of electric + solar for this boat, which will displace somewhere between 2,000 - 2,200 lbs in full cruising trim. On my Inside Passage trip with Fire-Drake, several times I encountered at least 3 windless, cloudy +/or rainy days in a row. Can't fit enough solar for that kind of demand.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by AJZimm View Post
    Gib, good to hear from you. Without turning this build thread into a medical one, I’ll expand a little on my experience, as it may be useful to other aging folks following this. I think there must be a lot of variation in afib manifestation. My afib episodes are highly periodic (“paroxysmal” in the medical jargon) and have happened mostly in the summer, strangely. I carried Metropolol around for 3 ˝ years but never used it as my heart rate doesn’t increase much during episodes, the rhythm just goes screwy. Flecainide is what I take to reset back to sinus mode. I haven’t been able to identify any specific triggers except for extremely cold water or icy drinks, the opposite of your experience.
    I have cut back on my caffeine intake (regrettably), have been drinking a lot more water for the past 8 months, and increased my salt intake a little, and this summer was much better, but I wouldn’t say I’m back to normal (how would I tell, my wife asks?) 

    A little late to the party, but as a cardiology nurse Ill throw in a bit of background.

    You're quite right Alex, afib varies greatly from person to person, often without identifiable triggers. metoprolol is a great drug, but for paroxysmal episodes, a pill-in-the-pocket approach with flecainide is a common and effective treatment.

    Reducing stimulants, like caffeine, and overall good health, are great ways to stave it off, and continue living a good life.


    Great build Alex, thanks for sharing.
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

    15' Welsford Navigator Inconceivable
    16' W. Simmons Mattinicus double ender ​Matty

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    what a boat!!! Has everything one needs for year around cruising in PNW, I assume a self bailing cockpit is in plans...?
    Waiting for the design to unveil, very interested in detales. Would love to make my 18 footer, with an inboard a weather proof vessel ......parking spot doesn't give much protection from rain.
    .......o yes, afib club member here

    Buey2.jpg
    "Little Bear" 1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    " Fela " 1985 Glen L15
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by 2dogsnight View Post
    I assume a self bailing cockpit is in plans...?
    .......o yes, afib club member here
    Yes, the cockpit will be self-bailing - draining into the motor well. The cockpit is relatively small - don't need a big one for sailing solo or just two people.

    Re: afib - maybe we should form a club
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Went out yesterday and bought another $1,000 (Cdn) worth of plywood, for the bulkheads and transom.

    So far, I've spent about a dollar a pound on materials. Not complaining, mind you, and the boat will cost what is costs, but a partial indication of where the money goes.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    One of the upsides of building a boat with only a few plywood strakes, that has been detailed with a CAD program, is that the program can generate patterns/templates. Tad has very helpfully provided full size pattern drawings files for the bulkheads. In this case, it was two files that I got plotted on 36” x 48” sheets that have to be joined together to get the full size patterns, or at least one half of them.

    I spent quite a bit of time carefully lining the 2 sheets up and checking to make sure I had the two straight and square before I taped them together.


    I also spent some time checking to see how much, if any, distortion, had been introduced by the printing process – paper not being a totally stable medium. I found no measurable error horizontally, that is, athwartships. Vertically, I found that the drawing was 3/32” bigger over 48” than the grid would indicate. I figure this is small enough that I don’t need to adjust for it while cutting out the bulkheads. At least the error is bigger so that if I do have make an adjustment as I begin to fasten the strakes, I can remove some material – a lot easier than adding it back on.

    Here is the first forward bulkhead, labeled Bulkhead A on the drawings, cut out and trimmed.


    The first two bulkheads can be cut in one piece. The remainder will have to be cut in two pieces each, along the centreline, and joined together with doublers.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    That's exciting Alex! Looking forward to seeing the next steps!

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Progress!
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Hi Alex,

    where were you able to print this?......Office depot? Once I did ask them to print from files on memory stick and they refused.
    Very exciting to start cutting bulkheads!!
    "Little Bear" 1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    " Fela " 1985 Glen L15
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by 2dogsnight View Post
    Hi Alex, where were you able to print this?......Office depot?
    Not OD - we have a local art/fine art/art printing shop here in town that can do this kind of work. The files were PDF and I just uploaded them to their site. There are also a couple of other local print shops that can do this, but they didn't have the slightly heavier paper that I wanted.

    I'd be surprised if you didn't have some local equivalent. Look for anybody that can print out architectural or engineering construction drawings.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    It's always a fine feeling when you cut that first piece of wood for a new boat!


    I dealt with paper templates for the first time while building my new Jericho Bay lobster skiff. They came with the plans so I used them instead of lofting like I usually do. They were OK, but nothing to boast about.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    More pictures of the bulkhead building process. Here is one of the 2-piece bulkheads:


    I started out cutting them close with the jig saw then planing the edges to the lines with a hand plane and Shinto rasp. Then it dawned on me that, since most of the edges are straight, I could use the router with an edge trimming bit if I lined up the lenes carefully with an uncut edge on the sheet of plywood. That first half could then serve as a pattern for the other half – first rough cut then cut to match using the trimming bit again:


    Here is one of the bulkheads clamped together with the doubler during the glue-up. I think it is bulkhead D. The bulkheads are labelled A though G; 7 in all, from forward to aft. D sits in the centre of the raised deckhouse part of the cabin.


    Here is the stack of completed bulkheads, off to one side:


    And here is the transom:
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Of course I could not resist standing up a few bulkheads, from the centre of the boat, just to get a feel for the dimensions of the cabin. These are bulkhead C, D & E, from nearest to farthest from the camera. Bulkhead C is at the forward end of the raised deckhouse part of the cabin. The little green folding stepstool you see is about at the same height as the cabin sole will be, maybe a little higher.


    And here is yours truly sitting on a stool which is only an inch or so lower than the berth flat, just ahead of the bulkhead that is the aft end of the cabin. As you can see, there is sitting headroom plus a few inches, if I built an inside steering seat there. Between bulkheads E and C is 56 inches. Enough room to be reasonably comfortable motoring along inside on a rainy day or riding out a gale at anchor.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Looking great, Alex! That little doghouse looks like it's going to work a treat.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    I am very happy for you Alex. Looks like she will be ready for the summer!! Looking fantastic!!!
    "Little Bear" 1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    " Fela " 1985 Glen L15
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Next up is building a strongback, to mount the bulkheads and attach the strakes. I wanted this to be very strong so it wouldn’t deflect under the weight of the hull but also mobile so that I could move it from side to side and in and out of the shop to get at the sides and ends as necessary – it’s a small shop for a boat this size.

    First is the basic structure. Three 16 foot 2 X 10’s set side by side for a total width of 2 ˝ feet. Kept square and rigid by cross-braces and end pieces. Additional backing blocks where the casters will attach.


    Here is the bottom, with ˝ inch ply in way of the ends and the caster attachment points. Ten casters in all, each with about 350 lb capacity if I recall correctly.


    Finally, the completed strongback flipped over right side up, with a coat of paint added to the top ˝ inch ply deck, to make it easier to see pencil marks when setting up the bulkhead supports.


    I was able to use up a lot of those re-claimed garden-variety wood screws that I have been saving since, I don’t know, about 1983.

    The completed strongback moves about the shop floor with just a touch of the fingertip now. We’ll see how well it does when it’s loaded down. I’ll have to figure out some way of holding it steady when I don’t want it to move.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    That's exciting Alex!

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Very nice. Wish the border was open
    "Little Bear" 1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    " Fela " 1985 Glen L15
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    I'm not seeing any pictures. Perhaps its the corporate firewall I'm behind? Wishing to see the progress!
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

    15' Welsford Navigator Inconceivable
    16' W. Simmons Mattinicus double ender ​Matty

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by BBSebens View Post
    I'm not seeing any pictures. Perhaps its the corporate firewall I'm behind? Wishing to see the progress!
    Pictures are there, Ben,as usual. I'm not doing anything different than before in putting up links to the pictures. Likely the firewall, unless others are having problems?
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    "Strong back" is an understatement!! Nicely done.
    Having built lots of boats on rolling strong backs, I would recommend that the wheels on the ends be able to lock. Nothing worse then the whole thing rolling away whenever you push on a tool.
    Is the floor absolutely level? So many wheels might lead to a wobbly strong back.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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