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Thread: Building the CoPogy 18

  1. #666
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Hi Alex, question for you.. I looked back at your deck non-skid (Kiwi Grip) application post in #580 and I was wondering if you apply it over your normal topcoat or the undercoat? Do you apply the normal number of topcoats or less in anticipation of non-skid?
    Thanks for any info.
    Andrew

  2. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Donald View Post
    Hi Alex, question for you.. I looked back at your deck non-skid (Kiwi Grip) application post in #580 and I was wondering if you apply it over your normal topcoat or the undercoat? Do you apply the normal number of topcoats or less in anticipation of non-skid?
    Thanks for any info.
    Andrew

    Over the normal top coats. If you mask off the edges and around fittings, as I did, those areas won’t be covered by the Kiwi Grip but may still get stepped on.


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    Alex

    “It's only those who do nothing that make no mistakes, I suppose.”
    - Joseph Conrad, An Outcast of the Islands

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  3. #668
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    Been posting a little bit on FB but not the forum as I wander between festivals.
    Currently in Friday Harbor. Setting out soon for Watmough Bay to be ready for the long trek alongside Whidbey Island to Port Townsend when a weather window opens up


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    Alex

    “It's only those who do nothing that make no mistakes, I suppose.”
    - Joseph Conrad, An Outcast of the Islands

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  4. #669
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    I have distinguished company at anchor In Watmough Bay tonight.



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    Alex

    “It's only those who do nothing that make no mistakes, I suppose.”
    - Joseph Conrad, An Outcast of the Islands

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  5. #670
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Your boat would make a nice dinghy for them.
    Tales from the land and sea: http://terrapintales.wordpress.com/

  6. #671
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Alex,

    So you are in Watmough Bay on Tuesday evening? My plan is to sail across from Port Townsend tomorrow (Wed) morning, assuming the wind slackens around 3AM as predicted. I will start north around 5:30AM, which usually means I will reach Lopez Island around noon on Wednesday. The southerly crossing is best done starting very early. The ebb tide in Rosario starts before dawn on Wednesday and Thursday. Catching the southbound current on the north side of the Straits will position you to catch the flood tide at Admiralty Inlet.

    By the way, I always make my southerly crossing west of the main shipping channel. This includes passing close to Smith and Minor Islands and sailing over Partridge Banks. The breakers can form off Widbey Island at least a mile offshore, which can be scary.

    Mike

  7. #672
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Good company! Thanks for that Did they get a reciprocal photo?

  8. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Higgins.94301 View Post
    Alex,

    So you are in Watmough Bay on Tuesday evening? My plan is to sail across from Port Townsend tomorrow (Wed) morning, assuming the wind slackens around 3AM as predicted. I will start north around 5:30AM, which usually means I will reach Lopez Island around noon on Wednesday. The southerly crossing is best done starting very early. The ebb tide in Rosario starts before dawn on Wednesday and Thursday. Catching the southbound current on the north side of the Straits will position you to catch the flood tide at Admiralty Inlet.

    By the way, I always make my southerly crossing west of the main shipping channel. This includes passing close to Smith and Minor Islands and sailing over Partridge Banks. The breakers can form off Widbey Island at least a mile offshore, which can be scary.

    Mike

    Mike,
    I left Watmough Bay at 0600 this morning and caught the southgoing tide all along the Whidbey shore. There were some scary-looking breakers where the current from Rosario met Juan de Fuca but I bashed through them with only a little spray in my face. Seems Camas Moon is a dry boat.
    Other than some occasional tidal weirdness, especially off Pt Wilson, it was fine. I motor-sailed most of the way due to insufficient wind. Wind kicked up to 12-15 kts as I was rounding Pt Wilson.
    Checked into Pt Hudson Marina and was at the dock by ~1030



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    Alex

    “It's only those who do nothing that make no mistakes, I suppose.”
    - Joseph Conrad, An Outcast of the Islands

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  9. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Good company! Thanks for that Did they get a reciprocal photo?

    Don’t know. They were busy anchoring. Took them 3 tries to get the hook set.


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    Alex

    “It's only those who do nothing that make no mistakes, I suppose.”
    - Joseph Conrad, An Outcast of the Islands

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  10. #675
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Nice photo, Alex. Good to hear of your voyage to PT.
    Ian
    Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
    Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

    “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
    Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

  11. #676
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Donald View Post
    Hi Alex, question for you.. I looked back at your deck non-skid (Kiwi Grip) application post in #580 and I was wondering if you apply it over your normal topcoat or the undercoat? Do you apply the normal number of topcoats or less in anticipation of non-skid?
    Thanks for any info.
    Andrew
    hey Andrew, whatever you apply it over make sure it is well keyed. That stuff likes to peel. A fella I saw didn’t sand properly and basically pressure washed it all off and started again. I put two coats of epoxy high build primer, sanded with 80 grit and washed clean before applying, still with a half decent knock it will peel.

    congrats on the launch Alex!!! Fantastic little boat

    steve

  12. #677
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Alex, I was heading the other way up Puget Sound and Admiralty Inlet while you were coming across the Strait. Skookum Maru is docked at Boat Haven. I'm looking forward to checking out Camas Moon at the boat show!
    - Chris

    Any single boat project will always expand to encompass the set of all possible boat projects.

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  13. #678
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    All of a sudden, it's a real boat, a proper little motor-sailer.
    Congratulations on a fantastic build.
    I hope she lives up to all your expectations.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
    Skiing is the next best thing to having wings.

  14. #679
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Alex, I was heading the other way up Puget Sound and Admiralty Inlet while you were coming across the Strait. Skookum Maru is docked at Boat Haven. I'm looking forward to checking out Camas Moon at the boat show!

    Thanks Chris. Hope our paths cross.


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    Alex

    “It's only those who do nothing that make no mistakes, I suppose.”
    - Joseph Conrad, An Outcast of the Islands

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  15. #680
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    All of a sudden, it's a real boat, a proper little motor-sailer.
    Congratulations on a fantastic build.
    I hope she lives up to all your expectations.

    Thanks Rich!

    Me too!


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    Alex

    “It's only those who do nothing that make no mistakes, I suppose.”
    - Joseph Conrad, An Outcast of the Islands

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  16. #681
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by AJZimm View Post
    Mike,
    I left Watmough Bay at 0600 this morning and caught the southgoing tide all along the Whidbey shore. There were some scary-looking breakers where the current from Rosario met Juan de Fuca but I bashed through them with only a little spray in my face. Seems Camas Moon is a dry boat.
    Other than some occasional tidal weirdness, especially off Pt Wilson, it was fine. I motor-sailed most of the way due to insufficient wind. Wind kicked up to 12-15 kts as I was rounding Pt Wilson.
    Checked into Pt Hudson Marina and was at the dock by ~1030



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Sounds like a perfect trip. Reading the NOAA page last night I was afraid you might be stuck at Lopez. I glad it worked out. The forecasted wind are always worse than what they turn out to be. Your boat looks wonderful. Tonight (Wed) I’m tied up at a buoy at Flagler State Park, on the south shore of Port Townsend Bay. See you tomorrow.

  17. #682
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    When you’re back and have some time, I’d love to see how the interior looks fitted out! Thanks. (Edit; got a glimpse of it in “Port Townsend wooden boat festival” thread which reminded me to ask.)

  18. #683
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Alex, I'm SO disappointed that I wasn't able to attend the Fest. and see your boat as planned. Exposed to a family member who has covid so...)

    Camas Moon was one of the "main attractions" for this year for me (along with hoping to see an Illur in person and talking with some Junk Rig folks). Glad you had a nice crossing and bet you got quite a bit of interest from attendees!

    Also looking forward to seeing detailed interior shots eventually.
    Cheers! DP

  19. #684
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

  20. #685
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    I'll add that the interior is very thoughtful, spacious (OK, I'm a little jealous), and civilized enough to have a coffee grinder and even an extra mug for a guest!

    Tales from the land and sea: http://terrapintales.wordpress.com/

  21. #686
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Well, I’m back from my two-festival shakedown cruise, and have the gear out of the boat, and most of it overhauled, but still some work to do.

    It was not really a relaxing cruise – new boat with unknown performance qualities and deadlines (self-imposed) to meet in order to make it to both Victoria Classic Boat Festival on the Labour Day long weekend, and then down to Port Townsend for the Wooden Boat Festival the following weekend, but I had a great time nonetheless.

    Most of the time, when I wanted to move from one place to another, there wasn’t enough useful wind to get me there, so I ended up motoring most of the way. However, I did get out sailing on the Thursday morning before the boats were all ushered in to the Point Hudson Marina for the second festival, and again during the Sunday afternoon sail past. I was too busy sailing and dodging boats then, but others took some pictures of Camas Moon under sail. Here are some that Galen Piehl sent to me.




    And here is Camas Moon crossing tacks with the Lady Washington.



    p.s. The sailmaker came up aces and re-cut the main for me between the launch and the first festival. Great service!
    Alex

    “It's only those who do nothing that make no mistakes, I suppose.”
    - Joseph Conrad, An Outcast of the Islands

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  22. #687
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Looking good. So how did she feel under sail?
    Tales from the land and sea: http://terrapintales.wordpress.com/

  23. #688
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Awesome results for your labors, Alex!

  24. #689
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Looks great out on the water. How does she perform under power?
    -Dave

  25. #690
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    She looks great, and very practical, Alex. It's hard to get those photos of your own boat!
    Congratulations on your first cruise!

    Ian
    Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
    Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

    “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
    Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

  26. #691
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Very cool to see your new boat in action, Alex. I imagine the mode of travel aboard Camas Moon will be snug and comfy compared to the more spartan sail-and-oar life. A cabin and motor seems like a wonderful thing for rainy cruising grounds with somewhat unreliable winds.

    Tom
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  27. #692
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    I haven't been following this build, very nice work.
    without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.

  28. #693
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Awesome results for your labors, Alex!
    Quote Originally Posted by IanMilne View Post
    She looks great, and very practical, Alex. It's hard to get those photos of your own boat!
    Congratulations on your first cruise!
    Ian
    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    I haven't been following this build, very nice work.
    Thanks guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bateau View Post
    Looking good. So how did she feel under sail?
    My experience with sailing the boat is, admittedly, limited so far. It seems that most of the two weeks I was in the boat attending the two festivals in Victoria and Port Townsend, the winds were generally light or calm and I motored most places to get where I was going. However, I did get in a few sessions where I sailed for an hour or two, including the sail past at the end of the Port Townsend festival.
    I clearly have some sorting out of rigging to do and I of course I may not have the optimum trim yet. The forestay has quite a bit of sag in it. As a consequence, I am not paying too much attention to how high the boat points, and I am not expecting high performance, just interested to see what the boat will do.
    The boat seems to want its first reef in the main at about 10 kts apparent, as measured with my anemometer. It could take more, I suspect, but it seems pretty hard pressed by then and the weather helm gets pretty heavy. With the first reef at that wind speed, the boat still makes 4-5 kts. I haven’t sailed it in strong enough winds to know when it will want the second reef.
    The boat balances quite well with just jib and mizzen.
    I also tried a few combinations for heaving-to. It heaves-to nicely with the jib furled, the main backed, the mizzen centred and the helm down. It lies quite docilely about 60-70 degrees off the wind, drifting downwind at about ¾ kt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    Looks great out on the water. How does she perform under power?
    As Tad Roberts has pointed out, 6 HP is more than enough to move the boat. It’s hard to tell exactly where in the throttle range it is, but about one third to one half throttle seems to move it along between 4 ½ - 5 kts. To get it to move much faster than that requires a lot more throttle and it makes a lot more noise, for little gain in speed. I haven’t yet tried out full throttle to see what that would do. The motor smooths out a lot more at 1/3 to ½ throttle than when it is running at idle or just off idle
    For interest’s sake, here is a screenshot of my satellite tracker for the trip.

    It doesn’t show my original track from where I launched just before the festival, around to Victoria. When I went back over it, with that added in, I figure the total distance covered under power was about 140 nautical miles. I burned about 17 litres of gasoline, which is about 4½ US gallons, or about 3¾ Imperial gallons for those of us that grew up in the old system. So, that is about 37 nautical miles per imperial gallon. I have no idea how that compares to other boats of similar size, but it seems reasonable to me. That gives me a range under power, at those speeds and with my current number of spare gas cans, of over 200 nautical miles.

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Very cool to see your new boat in action, Alex. I imagine the mode of travel aboard Camas Moon will be snug and comfy compared to the more spartan sail-and-oar life. A cabin and motor seems like a wonderful thing for rainy cruising grounds with somewhat unreliable winds.
    Tom
    The cabin is proving to be a revelation, compared to sail and oar. Don’t have to put up a tent and don’t have to take it down and stow it away wet when it rains.

    Except: There is a significant flaw in what I thought was my clever design for the support slides for the companionway hatch cover. I have gutters on the outside of the slides to drain away water that runs off the hatch. That works as intended. However, as I discovered during the rain on the last night of the cruise, the water also seeps in horizontally between the hatch and slide and drips down the support rail, along the curved roof, down the pilothouse sidewall, down its support beam, and right off that onto the last pair of clean underwear I had laid out to put on in the morning. So, adding interior gutters is one more thing to add to my growing list of fixes/modifications/upgrades to be done – currently numbering 21 items. I’ll try to remember to take pictures to document the problem and the fix as I get to it.
    Alex

    “It's only those who do nothing that make no mistakes, I suppose.”
    - Joseph Conrad, An Outcast of the Islands

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  29. #694
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Motoring Marianita's sweet spot is 3.5-4 knots, she'll go faster but with more sound and fury than I care to hear for any length of time. She also draws at least twice that of Camas Moon at 18 to 20". She also goes better with the bilgeboards up, you wouldn't think there would be that much drag but there you go.

    Switching from lashings to turnbuckles took the slop out of my forestay. As somebody here pointed out the glued-ply hull can take more rig tension than a traditional hull without tearing itself apart.

    Glad you had a good shakedown cruise.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  30. #695
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    Motoring Marianita's sweet spot is 3.5-4 knots, she'll go faster but with more sound and fury than I care to hear for any length of time. She also draws at least twice that of Camas Moon at 18 to 20". She also goes better with the bilgeboards up, you wouldn't think there would be that much drag but there you go.

    Switching from lashings to turnbuckles took the slop out of my forestay. As somebody here pointed out the glued-ply hull can take more rig tension than a traditional hull without tearing itself apart.

    Glad you had a good shakedown cruise.
    Excellent points all, Steve, as usual. Glad to have the benefit of your experience.

    I have tried motoring with the centreboard down and up and don't notice a great deal of difference in speed. CB down was at Tad's suggestion. One of the ancestors of the CoPogy 18 hull is Tad's open 20 ft boat, Ratty. He says Ratty is much more directionally stable with the board down and I think Camas Moon is too.

    As for the pros and cons of lashings vs turnbuckles, I inadvertently discovered one of the virtues of the former, on this cruise. My experience, and therefore skill level, with very slow speed maneuvering under power with the new boat is, to be charitable about it, limited. Coming into the dock in Friday Harbor, I tried to get fancy and swing the boat around to point the other way so as to make an easier exit in the morning. To cut to the chase, I screwed it up and managed to prang the dock with the bobstay on one of my docking attempts. I thought, “Oh Sh**, I’ve broken the stay and put a gouge in the stem.” However, when I finally got the boat secure and looked at the bow, there was no damage at all. The dyneema lashings had simply absorbed the impact by slipping and the stay was just loose. I re-lashed them and I was good to go.
    Alex

    “It's only those who do nothing that make no mistakes, I suppose.”
    - Joseph Conrad, An Outcast of the Islands

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  31. #696
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    On the trip to and from Port Townsend I discovered something else that I haven’t encountered before. The centreboard on Camas Moon has a 125 lb steel core. I deliberately made the pivot pin/board fit a little loose, both for being able to insert the pin in the first place, and have the side thrust from the board taken by the case sides, not the pin. This does mean that the board moves back and forth a little when underway. However, it also moves back and forth a little when the boat is at anchor and rolls/rocks due to wave action. This first came to light when I was anchored in Watmough Bay at the south end of Lopez Island, the jumping-off point for the long leg down Whidbey Island to Port Townsend. The bay is very sheltered from the west winds, but is open to Rosario Strait northeast. While the wind calmed overnight, there was enough small wave action from boats coming in to the bay and from out in the Strait, that the boat rolled all night. Here, for example, is the schooner Martha, on the first of three passes she took while setting the hook late in the day, generating waves with each pass:


    I don’t mind the rolling, but with every roll, the board gave a clunk in the case. It was enough to continually half-wake me throughout the night. In my sleep-deprived state, I imagined the pin wearing through the board and the board dropping out of the boat. While that didn’t happen, the unrest was enough to get me up early and motoring out of the bay before dawn:


    On the return trip, I came from Port Townsend all the way to Spencer’s Spit, hoping that the anchorages on either side of the spit would be less prone to wave action. Not so during the daylight hours – there was an astonishing amount of ferry and boat traffic - but it did calm down more overnight. Next day started out looking like a typical fall day with low cloud and bits of fog about. This is Spencer’s Spit receding behind me as I leave:


    But the day gradually cleared and warmed up. I ended up in Reid Harbor, Stuart Island, on a buoy for the night. It is very sheltered and, being a dead end, was mercifully free of wake action as well as wave action.


    This means another thing to add to my list of modifications to the boat. I am thinking some kind of tapered slot fitting, matching the trailing edge of the centreboard, that I can permanently fit into the top of the case, would do the trick. I would raise the board where it would snug into the fitting and be held from moving, thus keeping it quiet. Unless anyone else has a better suggestion.
    Alex

    “It's only those who do nothing that make no mistakes, I suppose.”
    - Joseph Conrad, An Outcast of the Islands

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  32. #697
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Maybe a chunk of closed-cell foam glued to the underside of the CB cap?

    The caps on my bilgeboards are only a couple of inches above the waterline, when she rolls I get to listen to the water slapping up against the caps....still pondering on a solution to that one.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  33. #698
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    Maybe a chunk of closed-cell foam glued to the underside of the CB cap?

    There's a thought. I was thinking of something in wood, fastened to the case sides, but foam just might do it.
    Alex

    “It's only those who do nothing that make no mistakes, I suppose.”
    - Joseph Conrad, An Outcast of the Islands

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  34. #699
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by MattMKE View Post
    When you’re back and have some time, I’d love to see how the interior looks fitted out! Thanks. (Edit; got a glimpse of it in “Port Townsend wooden boat festival” thread which reminded me to ask.)
    Matt, the interior is extremely barebones at the moment. It isn’t really “fitted out” yet. I am basically camping in the boat. However, here are a few images of what the boat looks like in actual use, warts and all, with gear not stowed for travelling. Please excuse the picture quality. They were taken with my aged point-and-shoot camera, and either the lens is going off or there was condensation on it – these were taken first thing in the morning.

    Starboard aft corner of the cabin. Devoted to the electrical panel, so will not likely have anything significant put or built in front of it. Maybe some shelving along the outside hull.


    Port aft corner. Inhabited here by life jacket and clothing, protected from aforementioned drips by a gore-tex jacket. This is where the wood stove, which finally was delivered the day before I left on this trip, will be installed:


    Port side looking forward. My berth area. It is quite comfortable in spite of the apparent intrusion of the mast into the space. In the forward-most section I had the toolbox and the second water container. The boat with its current ballast distribution seems to want to have most of the weight forward. Shifting some of the ballast from aft to forward is one of the projects on my list.


    Starboard side looking forward. Lots of space there for a second person, if one was along. Here taken up by my folding bicycle. It is a great range extender when you are in port. I took an extra day in Port Townsend because I was spooked by the weather forecast for the east entrance of Juan de Fuca. I took a ride around the town and out to Point Wilson. Also seen here is my temporary oar storage solution – clamps and lashings. Need something handier and more permanent.


    Here is my “captain’s chair”. A folding stadium seat that is perched on a couple of removable pieces of plywood, sitting on cleats, that also serve to extend the shoulder area for the berth. You will notice that the space under the ply seems to have become footwear storage – sea boots, running shoes for shore, sandals.


    The oars also serve as a handy towel rack, as you can see. I stow most of this gear below hatches before getting underway.
    Alex

    “It's only those who do nothing that make no mistakes, I suppose.”
    - Joseph Conrad, An Outcast of the Islands

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  35. #700
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    St. Helens, Oregon
    Posts
    4,988

    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    That's an amazing amount of space for an 18 footer, Alex. Tad came up with a great concept that you've done a brilliant interpretation of. Really looking forward to seeing some cruising reports! Will you have the stove in for some fall cruising?

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