Building the CoPogy 18

[WI-Tom]

I agree, although once you're well into it, you're committed to the rest of it. Which means that time spent on deciding what to build is as important as the build itself, maybe more so.

A good argument for building a cheap temporary boat first, and using it enough to know what you really want.

Tom

[Bruce Bateau]

Hmmm. Seemed like a good idea at the time!

Wouldn't rot, but the stuff doesn't have that much stiffness. I would like to see an underwater GoPro video of the thing deployed in action while beating to windward. I have this image of it bending sideways like a boiled lasagna noodle.

Well Alex, I did a little underwater work, alas not while the boat was beating to windward... and found:
1. When I pressed my feet against the board while holding onto the side of the boat, the board seemed stiff. Admittedly you can't get too much leverage underwater, I still felt OK about things.
2. I learned that once in the water, I was able to climb out mid-ship without too much effort.

The hard part (besides the sandpaper grip paint on my bare skin) was getting from the side deck over the coaming... still it proved that I can get back in the boat at this age/stage...

Now if anyone has a go pro to lend me, speak up.

[AJZimm]

Well Alex, I did a little underwater work, alas not while the boat was beating to windward... and found:
1. When I pressed my feet against the board while holding onto the side of the boat, the board seemed stiff. Admittedly you can't get too much leverage underwater, I still felt OK about things.
2. I learned that once in the water, I was able to climb out mid-ship without too much effort.

The hard part (besides the sandpaper grip paint on my bare skin) was getting from the side deck over the coaming... still it proved that I can get back in the boat at this age/stage...

Now if anyone has a go pro to lend me, speak up.

Bruce, good to know that the board doesn't seem to be a limp noodle.

Proving that you are able to get back aboard without mechanical aids is even more important/critical. With my new boat, the freeboard is way too high, which is why I have a collapsible boarding ladder. What I don't have yet is a foolproof way to deploy it if/when I end up the water and I haven't rigged it beforehand.

[John Meachen]

While I hope you fellows don't fall overboard too often,it isn't too hard to organise a boarding ladder.The hinged bottom sections can be held up by a catch that is operated by a light line that can be reached while swimming.

https://www.force4.co.uk/item/Trem/F...oden-Steps/I5F

https://www.seascrew.com/browse.cfm?...-&l=0000000904

[Bruce Bateau]

While I hope you fellows don't fall overboard too often,it isn't too hard to organise a boarding ladder.The hinged bottom sections can be held up by a catch that is operated by a light line that can be reached while swimming.

https://www.force4.co.uk/item/Trem/F...oden-Steps/I5F

https://www.seascrew.com/browse.cfm?...-&l=0000000904

Why do you have to ruin our adventure by providing practical solutions!?

[Breakaway]

As some of you know, I am involved with the production recreational fiberglass boatbuilding industry. Those people speak about the cost of boats in terms of weight; they understand boatbuilding in terms of cost per pound, at least in a general way. Usually, this method proves very close to the same number once the BOM is complete

So, when comparing the costs of two boats, besides dimensions and major components like sails and trailers, consider comparing the weight of each.

Kevin


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[NeilMB]

6733794[/URL]]As some of you know, I am involved with the production recreational fiberglass boatbuilding industry. Those people speak about the cost of boats in terms of weight; they understand boatbuilding in terms of cost per pound, at least in a general way. Usually, this method proves very close to the same number once the BOM is complete

So, when comparing the costs of two boats, besides dimensions and major components like sails and trailers, consider comparing the weight of each.

Thats very interesting, I remember reading a boat designer (can’t remember who right now) who used weight to estimate build time. I think his theory was that you could put 2 or 3 pounds of wood on in an hours work on average.

Does Camas moon weigh anything like 1000 pounds?

[Woxbox]

Phil Bolger argued that the number of pieces to be cut and fit are the main determinate of build time regardless of their size.

[KenStocker]

It still seems to me that whatever formula you use, it still comes down to "if I live that long". Let's just start there and call it good!

Ken

[AJZimm]

As some of you know, I am involved with the production recreational fiberglass boatbuilding industry. Those people speak about the cost of boats in terms of weight; they understand boatbuilding in terms of cost per pound, at least in a general way. Usually, this method proves very close to the same number once the BOM is complete

So, when comparing the costs of two boats, besides dimensions and major components like sails and trailers, consider comparing the weight of each.

Kevin

I'm no expert but it seems to me that this method would be most applicable when comparing like-to-like construction methods. That is, while generally a heavier boat will cost more than a lighter boat, some construction methods will be more labour intensive than others. In fact, if you are striving for extreme light weight for a racing boat, for example, you may very well spend more time on the construction - cold-moulding the hull or deck house for example.

Thats very interesting, I remember reading a boat designer (can’t remember who right now) who used weight to estimate build time. I think his theory was that you could put 2 or 3 pounds of wood on in an hours work on average.

Does Camas moon weigh anything like 1000 pounds?

That has not been my experience, but then I am just an amateur builder, not a pro doing production boats. Judging from where she sits on her lines at present, Camas Moon displaces around 2,000 lbs.

Phil Bolger argued that the number of pieces to be cut and fit are the main determinate of build time regardless of their size.

That I can believe as it aligns more closely with my own experience. I would also suggest that the amount of time required depends on whether the boat is a one-off or one of many of the same that you have built before. Also, in the same vein, it will depend on how detailed the plans are. If it is the first build of a new design and many of the construction details aren't on the plans, you will spend a significant amount of time working out how to build the details, building jigs, clamping arrangements ans so on.

It still seems to me that whatever formula you use, it still comes down to "if I live that long". Let's just start there and call it good!

Ken

Amen!

[AJZimm]

Fixes, Mods & Upgrades

Camas Moon is the first hull of a new design, and most of the non-critical details of the boat’s construction came from my head, not from Tad’s plans. My shakedown cruise revealed that not all of them worked out. In addition, there are some things that were left unfinished at the time of launch. For example, the small wood stove that I had on order for nearly 11 months arrived the day before I left on my cruise – not enough time to install it.

I have a list of 24 projects that need doing, most minor and few larger ones. I’ll post some of them as I get to them.

First to be posted, although not the first to be completed, is the addition of saddles to the masts, to take the weight of the booms when the sails are furled. I didn’t build them in to start with, for two reasons. For the mizzen, I thought I would do the same as on my last boat, which is to bring the boom up and furl the sail around the mast. I did that on the cruise, but the sail has a couple of battens in the roach that prevent it from furling nicely and it is also a little too tall to reach up and tie the top with a gasket or bungee cord. Not an issue in calm weather but there is too much unsecured sail up there for my peace of mind if I was to be in a windy anchorage overnight. I’ve added a topping lift and a saddle so that I can furl the sail down to the boom, just like a big boat.

Mizzen mast saddle

I hadn’t thought through the situation on main mast thoroughly. I believe I was thinking that the lazyjacks would take care of holding the boom up adequately. In practice, I found that the furled boom/sail/gaff package sagged down at the mast to where it was resting on the halyard cleats. In addition to being a nuisance when it came time to hoist the sail, the brass nails that I used to fasten the boom jaw leathers chewed into the cleats somewhat and, at the same time, the interference pulled out a couple. Here is my solution:

Main mast saddle

The white stuff is star board, whose slickness, I hope, will prevent the brass leather-holding nails from doing damage, especially if I have to snug the boom right down on to the saddle to help getting the luff tight.

[stromborg]

Marianita has a similar saddle for the boom to rest on. One of this winter's projects is to put something like star board on the horizontal surface and some "sacrificial" hardwood strips on the mast where the jaws "work" with the motion of the boat. I'll do something similar up where the gaff saddle sits at full and reefed sailing.

Not quite ready for the forecast rain, time to pull the "winter" boat covers out of their hiding place in the bilge and put them up.

[AJZimm]

Marianita has a similar saddle for the boom to rest on. One of this winter's projects is to put something like star board on the horizontal surface and some "sacrificial" hardwood strips on the mast where the jaws "work" with the motion of the boat. I'll do something similar up where the gaff saddle sits at full and reefed sailing.

Not quite ready for the forecast rain, time to pull the "winter" boat covers out of their hiding place in the bilge and put them up.

Steve, is the leather on the jaws not sufficient to prevent chafe?

As for winter cover, I bit the bullet and got one of those car-port-like shelters to keep the boat under. It is big enough to allow me to keep the boat dry enough to work on in the rain

[stromborg]

Steve, is the leather on the jaws not sufficient to prevent chafe?

Marianita lives in a slip so there is always a bit of motion, the leather helps but not 100%. Part of it is the leather essentially work hardens over time.

[AJZimm]

Marianita lives in a slip so there is always a bit of motion, the leather helps but not 100%. Part of it is the leather essentially work hardens over time.

Ah, good point, Thanks

[AJZimm]

Fixes, Mods & Upgrades

This was something I intended to do from the beginning but ran out of time before the launch. Adding closeable ventilation openings to the centre companionway drop board. Ventilation both for fresher air when the boat is otherwise closed up at night, and for combustion air for the wood stove, the installation of which is one of my winter projects

3 inch holes cut out


Inside, showing the rotating opening/closing bits


Outside, showing the grilles that should keep out most of the wind-driven rain (I hope)

[AJZimm]

There was a recent thread having to do with deciding on a boat name. It’s a personal thing, of course, but boat names seem important to me. In deciding on a name for this boat, I thought about it for quite a while. This is an excerpt of an article I wrote about the build, explaining my thought process, for another magazine:

“Boat naming has always seemed to me to be something that shouldn’t be done lightly. I’m not particularly superstitious, but, when it comes to the sea, as Hamlet put it, “There are more things in heaven and earth . . .”, and it doesn’t do to offend Poseidon. Besides that, there are practical considerations. There is nothing more annoying than hearing cumbersome, goofy or cutesy boat names repeated three times on VHF, day after day, when you are on a cruise. In addition, as a sailor, you are synonymous with your boat to much of rest of the sailing community, not to mention when you sail in to a foreign port, as I hope to do (even if it is only Port Townsend). I’m also not a fan of serial boat naming, e.g. “Last Boat III”. I pondered names that were aspirational, meteorological, navigational, naval, avian, animal and botanical. I considered adjectives, nouns and verbs. I wanted the name to be unique. As a primarily visual thinker, I was also trying to envision what kind of image would represent the new boat. Eventually I settled on the name “Camas Moon”, for the beautiful blue/purple flower that blooms here in late spring, and whose starchy bulbs were a food source highly prized by the local First Nations peoples. They harvested the bulbs at the full moon in May, which was known as the Camas Moon. May is also roughly the start of the summer sailing season here.”

In Canada, if you register a boat, as I did, and which you are obliged to do if you sail the boat outside the country, you need to submit three possible names for approval. In the course of thinking up names, I drew some images that would represent the names. My first choice was Camas Moon, which was accepted. This is the image I drew, which I incorporated into the graphic that adorns the bow of the boat.


The name I submitted for a second choice was Island Wren, for the Pacific Wren that lives in our rainforest. Here is the graphic I drew for that:




Finally, the name I submitted for the third choice, was Pika, for the chubby little alpine animal that lives in our western mountains. The hull shape reminded me a little of the animal.

[cstevens]

Those are all great names Alex! Great illustrations too.

[stromborg]

You have to submit three names? That's interesting, do you know what the reasoning is behind that?

[Autonomous]

With regard to Pika. One of the kids had a hamster named Chester that was an escape artist extraordinaire and a traveling fool.
We had a powerboat with full, convex bows that reminded me of the hamster with his cheeks packed full of bedding and food, ready to bust out... again.
We named the boat Chester.

[Autonomous]

You have to submit three names? That's interesting, do you know what the reasoning is behind that?

Maybe to keep names like;
Maid Of Plywood
Byachtch
from slipping through?

[AJZimm]

Those are all great names Alex! Great illustrations too.

Thanks Chris!

You have to submit three names? That's interesting, do you know what the reasoning is behind that?

Not sure. Possibly because your first two choices might already be taken? Or, see reasoning by Autonomous below.

With regard to Pika. One of the kids had a hamster named Chester that was an escape artist extraordinaire and a traveling fool.
We had a powerboat with full, convex bows that reminded me of the hamster with his cheeks packed full of bedding and food, ready to bust out... again.
We named the boat Chester.

Of course you did!

Maybe to keep names like;
Maid Of Plywood
Byachtch
from slipping through?

You would hope.
But I've seen so many goofy names that I don't think they censor them much, at least not for goofiness - perhaps for obscenity or other offensiveness?

[Bruce Bateau]

I love the illustrations Alex- how did you make those?

I totally agree with you on choosing a boat name. There are some way too common ones out there and it does make you wonder what that says about the owner.

My other criteria for naming a boat, is that you should be able to clearly call the name out over the VHF and have someone be able to repeat it back to you. Names like "Wolocheeti Queen of Milwaukee" don't work well for that.

Last, as a matter of cultural awareness, camas is still a prized for for Native Americans/First Nations. You noted "starchy bulbs were a food source."

-Bruce

[AJZimm]

I love the illustrations Alex- how did you make those?
-Bruce

Thanks Bruce. I used a vector-based graphics program on my PC. Same one that I used to draw the maps in my book. Used a mouse for input, which is kind of tedious. One of these days I'll have to invest in an iPad with a pen/stylus input.

I totally agree with you on choosing a boat name. There are some way too common ones out there and it does make you wonder what that says about the owner.

My other criteria for naming a boat, is that you should be able to clearly call the name out over the VHF and have someone be able to repeat it back to you. Names like "Wolocheeti Queen of Milwaukee" don't work well for that.
-Bruce

I once cruised for a whole week on a bigger boat in our Gulf Islands and every day heard another boat incessantly calling his buddy: "L'il Hummer, L'il Hummer, L'il Hummer". I still have nightmares.

Last, as a matter of cultural awareness, camas is still a prized for for Native Americans/First Nations. You noted "starchy bulbs were a food source."
-Bruce

Of course. I didn't mean to imply that the First Nations no longer harvested Camas bulbs, only that, around here at least, they are no longer a staple or mainstay food. That is largely due to most of their traditional harvesting areas, the Garry Oak meadows, having been taken over and developed for other uses. The main hill in one of the largest parks in the City of Victoria, Beacon Hill Park, was a prime site for Camas before us colonists showed up. A smaller park elsewhere in the city has been almost entirely restored as a Camas meadow, mostly due to 20+ years of tireless work by one woman who removed the invasive species and planted and nurtured the Camas. It is a breathtaking sight in the spring.

[AJZimm]

Fixes, Mods & Upgrades

Due to holidays and other non-boat projects the last couple of months I haven’t made a lot of progress on checking off items on my list. I have, however, got two things done recently:

Adding an extension stick to the tiller.


I found an old cut-off broomstick or rake handle, don’t know remember which, that was the right diameter. Wood species unknown. Application of some boiling water for half an hour and clamping to the tiller induced some curve in it. Enough to sort of follow the tiller but not too much to render it awkward as a tiller extension.

Splurged for a store-bought Tiller Clutch.

I had been making do with a loop of line around the tiller lead to the mainsheet attachment eyes, but there was too much slack for it to hold the tiller as steady as it needed to be. This promises to have the tiller stay where it is locked once I get the line taut enough.

The list is now a little over half-way completed.

[AJZimm]

Fixes, Mods & Upgrades

Knocked off another project on my list, namely, adding a window to the top companionway drop board.

I was in a bit of a quandary as to how to do it. With the similar windows for the pilothouse sides, I had made the sides out of 2 layers of 6 mm (1/4”) ply laminated together. It was an easy matter to make hole for the inner layer smaller by the amount of rebate or landing support for the polycarbonate window. With the drop board already built of 12 mm ply, I couldn’t do that, unless I discarded the one I had made and laminated up two layers again. In the end, I decided that I could do it with two passes of the router, if I measured carefully enough and clamped guide pieces for the router.

Here is a picture showing the guide pieces, the first past with the bit set to half the thickness of the board, and the second pass with the bit set inside the first and to the full depth of the board:


Here is the resulting hole:


Edges taped, registration marks made, polycarbonate glued in:


Glue cured, tape and protective plastic film removed, and lock re-installed:


Installed in the boat:


Now I can see out into the cockpit when the drop boards are all in place. Adds a little more light to the cabin as well.

[cstevens]

Very nice Alex! That window will be handy to spy on the raccoons pilfering your snacks but I think you need some curtains and maybe a bud vase to make it a little cozier down below

[AJZimm]

Very nice Alex! That window will be handy to spy on the raccoons pilfering your snacks but I think you need some curtains and maybe a bud vase to make it a little cozier down below

Thanks and yes, you're right, but I'd be only able to store bud in it north of the border here where it is legal.

[cstevens]

Thanks and yes, you're right, but I'd be only able to store bud in it north of the border here where it is legal.

Ha! Actually it's legal down here too, or so I hear.

[Breakaway]

Ha! Actually it's legal down here too, or so I hear.

Not on a boat.

USCG will ( or can, and have done) enforce Federal law on state waters.

EDIT: GEEZ! I forgot to write what a nice job you did with the window, and are doing with the build. Thanks for sharing.

Kevin

[Mike.Higgins.94301]

Alex, next you need to make a drop board for Summer evenings when you only want to keep out pests that are smaller than raccoons.

D60C8958-7E4B-4AA7-A4BB-883115005821.jpg

[Andrew Donald]

Alex is that a combination lock you fitted on companionway? What is the metal pin made of ? Are they exxy$$

[AJZimm]

EDIT: GEEZ! I forgot to write what a nice job you did with the window, and are doing with the build. Thanks for sharing.

Kevin

Thanks Kevin!

Alex, next you need to make a drop board for Summer evenings when you only want to keep out pests that are smaller than raccoons.

You're right. I'll add it to the list

Alex is that a combination lock you fitted on companionway? What is the metal pin made of ? Are they exxy$$

It is a combination lock. Pin is made of stainless, body is anodized aluminum. It wasn't cheap, but it was the only way I could think of to have a simple lock for the hatch that slides overtop the drop board, as the standard hasp arrangement was out. I liked that I also don't have to fiddle with keys (or lose them overboard). I can't now recall where I got it. On the interweb somewhere. I'll see if I can dig out the receipt.

[BBSebens]

There was a recent thread having to do with deciding on a boat name. It’s a personal thing, of course, but boat names seem important to me. In deciding on a name for this boat, I thought about it for quite a while. This is an excerpt of an article I wrote about the build, explaining my thought process, for another magazine:

….


Finally, the name I submitted for the third choice, was Pika, for the chubby little alpine animal that lives in our western mountains. The hull shape reminded me a little of the animal.

YES! Just the inspiration I was looking for. I was graciously gifted a small keelboat last fall, and it needs a name. It a Laguna 18, which is a very small IOR style keelboat. An 8’ beam for its 18’ leaves it a bit chubby looking. PIKA is perfect.

[AJZimm]

YES! Just the inspiration I was looking for. I was graciously gifted a small keelboat last fall, and it needs a name. It a Laguna 18, which is a very small IOR style keelboat. An 8’ beam for its 18’ leaves it a bit chubby looking. PIKA is perfect.

You're welcome.

You are also welcome to the graphic for the boat, if it appeals to you.