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Thread: Ethnicity and homeland

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Ethnicity and homeland

    Where I live a genocide took place in the 1960s. This area is above some major rapids on the lower Araguaia river, and was not really settled by modern people until the Belem-Brasília highway was built and people began to claim ranchland in this region.

    In order to claim ranchland under federal homestead laws, you had to improve it and demonstrate that there are no prior inhabitants, including indigenous people. But this area was a three-day horse ride from the nearest roadhead, through dense Cerrado thick with jaguars. Settlers took care of "improvements" by burning down the forest, turning it into grassland for cattle. They took care of prior inhabitants by lead or silver, as the saying goes. Indians often chose lead. Old timers told us stories of when any "white people" (which in Brazil includes all non-Indians, including people of indigenous descent who have assimilated and are with the newcomers) ran into any local Indians, both sides would immediately open fire, assuming the other side would do so. After a while this was not restricted to land disputes, and it was open warfare. The government solved the problem by declaring all of Bananal Island, the largest freshwater island in the world, off-limits to settlement, and encouraging the remaining indigenous people of the region to move there.

    It is estimated that about 15,000 people died in this genocide. People here still talk casually about how their grandmother was wedded "by lasso" - in other words, captured and made to marry their grandfather.

    As for the remnant local indigenous people, they all became Javaés regardless of actual heritage, as they ended up settled along the Javaés river, and each group now has claim to a few hundred thousand hectares of Bananal island. The settlements are now regular towns. Some of the Javaés are among our best allies in the fight for protecting nature in this region. Some are our worst nightmares. Most are just like ordinary local Brazilians.

    One band, the Cara Preta (Black Face), retreated into thick forest deep inside Bananal island back in the 60s, and declared that they will not come out and will kill any outsiders who come in. Under Brazilian law they are allowed to do this. We know of them because they have some contact with other Javaé groups.

    Another band, or rather, gang, invaded Araguaia National Park, the northern tip of Bananal Island, which was made into a park in the 1970s because no indigenous people had ever occupied it. They claimed that they had, fought all the way to the Supreme Court, lost, but still refuse to leave. Some of them poach arapaima and river turtles to sell in the black market. Others burn down the vegetation in the wetlands to make grass grow and lease the land illegally to neighboring ranches, which need extra pasture in the dry season. Of course the latter are wrecking the illegal fishery of the former and destroying the park's ecosystem, but after much commotion, no government authority will touch this with a ten meter pole, so it is what it is. We thank Tupã every day that we have no such groups in our area.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Ethnicity and homeland

    Ah yes, the stolen generations. We have them still, and the religious institutions were up to their necks in it. Girls for domestic servitude, boys as farm labourers. The middle class longed for servants again, most of that ceased with WW1 here. As in Canada if I have remembered right. When I was at primary school, with twin Aboriginal boys in the class, amongst the educational material was a regular official publication that gave the official position that eventually the poor Aboriginal would be 'bred out'. Someone we knew took that literally, taking in a teenaged Aboriginal girl as a servant, and fathering two children with her who were adopted out, by force. I have no idea what happened to her when Cam drank himself to death and his wife ended up as an alcoholic on the street.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Ethnicity and homeland

    Here in Brazil at least the religious institutions have been kept away from the innocents in the past half century. Bolsonaro, of course, wants to make it legal for the Jesus freaks to go preach in Indian lands. I hope they end up roasted like a wooly monkey on a bad fishing day.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Ethnicity and homeland

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Here in Brazil at least the religious institutions have been kept away from the innocents in the past half century. Bolsonaro, of course, wants to make it legal for the Jesus freaks to go preach in Indian lands. I hope they end up roasted like a wooly monkey on a bad fishing day.
    Careful what you wish for.
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  5. #40
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    Default Re: Ethnicity and homeland

    That guy was not a Jesus freak. He was trying to make contact with an isolated tribe on behalf of the agency that is trying to protect them from ranchers, loggers, and miners.

    Official policy in Brazil is to leave isolated tribes alone, unless criminal operations contact them first, in which case they need help.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Ethnicity and homeland

    Can we all not just be human?
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  7. #42
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    Default Re: Ethnicity and homeland

    We are trying. Some of us are failing.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Ethnicity and homeland

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    We are trying. Some of us are failing.
    Those who fall behind should be left behind?
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  9. #44
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    Default Re: Ethnicity and homeland

    Those who fall behind in humanity are leaving the rest of us behind. They charge ahead regardless, make a desert and call it progress.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Ethnicity and homeland

    In the current US Census--going on right now--one of the questions is about, "origin."

    First, we are asked to name a race. ( white, black, Asian, native Hawaiian or other pacific islander, etc......or some other race? )

    The next question is ( suppose person responds, " black"). What are your black origins? ( African-American, Ethiopian, Bahamian, Indigenous Australian,....etc...or some other origin.)

    So, our government has some concern about where we come from.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Ethnicity and homeland

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    . . . wholesale 1080 poison drops by the NZ Department of Conservation . . .
    What were they trying to kill?
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

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  12. #47
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    Default Re: Ethnicity and homeland

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    In the US, there are treaties with indigenous tribes that include guarantees of sovereign rights, particularly with respect to subsistence: hunting, fishing, etc.

    Recently, there's been a move to assert sovereign rights (often included in treaties) over arrest and prosecution on tribal reservations, which the federal government has usurped.
    I was under the impression the US reneged on the last treaty back in the 70s.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Ethnicity and homeland

    Sovereign rights over crimes committed by native peoples on Indian lands in the US is a creature of federal statute and turns on the class of crime. Some crimes are subject to tribal jurisdiction, some are subject to concurrent jurisdiction, with the most serious crimes subject to exclusive federal jurisdiction. It has been thus since the 19th century.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Ethnicity and homeland

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    Sovereign rights over crimes committed by native peoples on Indian lands in the US is a creature of federal statute and turns on the class of crime. Some crimes are subject to tribal jurisdiction, some are subject to concurrent jurisdiction, with the most serious crimes subject to exclusive federal jurisdiction. It has been thus since the 19th century.
    Then just this year, I learned I was born on Indian land.....

    Half of Oklahoma Is Now Indian Country. What Does That Mean for Criminal Justice There?
    Tribal courts and federal prosecutors face a flood of new cases after the Supreme Court ruling.

    https://www.themarshallproject.org/2...-justice-there
    "Deconstruction is not a method, and cannot be transformed into one" Jacques Derrida (1930–2004)

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Ethnicity and homeland

    It means that depending on the tribal status of the offender and assuming the crime occurred on Indian land, the State of Oklahoma does not have jurisdiction to prosecute the offender. Either the tribe does, or depending on the severity of the offense, the federal government does.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Ethnicity and homeland

    Race is nature, ethnicity is nurture, one might say.

    The distinction is the foundation of the concepts of "going native" and of the "race traitor".
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Ethnicity and homeland

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    Race is nature, ethnicity is nurture, one might say.

    The distinction is the foundation of the concepts of "going native" and of the "race traitor".
    Yes, you understand. Example:

    An Australian aboriginal can be ethnically "Australian" in the same way as a European-descended person is.

    A European-descended white in Australia, however, cannot be ethnically aboriginal.

    Notice that race is not implicated in these formulations.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Ethnicity and homeland

    I wonder how long the Welsh had to have occupied Wales to become ethnically Welsh?
    Can we mongrel English ever be ethnically English? Is there an English Ethnicity?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  19. #54
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    Default Re: Ethnicity and homeland

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    I wonder how long the Welsh had to have occupied Wales to become ethnically Welsh?
    Can we mongrel English ever be ethnically English? Is there an English Ethnicity?
    It's not a legal definition. Native Americans of Canada (!) don't get recognition because they have an ethnic identity, any more than Canadian Sikhs. They get it because of their particular legal status vis-a-vis the national government.

    Government recognition of ethnicity is a very tricky thing. Certainly not something to get promiscuous with. In a context where there are recognized ethnicities living together with everyone else, it very quickly causes violations of the rights of the unrecognized.

    As far as its utility as an analytical device in social science or the humanities, I would say the definition should suit the particular inquiry.
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

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