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Thread: How does one teach students about the constitution

  1. #1
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    Default How does one teach students about the constitution

    While Trump is president?


    How much of what he does is opposite from what we're taught the constitution demands?
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    fart
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Show them how handcuffs work

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Point by point? What would their world be without each Article?

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    While Trump is president ?

    Have all the networks run "Schoolhouse Rock " all day / every day ?

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    ...
    Last edited by Tom from Rubicon; 09-19-2020 at 10:54 PM.

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    rTump does not have a clue. Read Woodwards books to start.
    Tom

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Um, I suppose it depends what interpretation/bowlderised/edited version is picked by what ever school board in whatever state picks.

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    While Trump is president?
    How does one not?
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Trump doesn't need to know anything he's there to distract while the true deep state does it's dirty work.

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    How does one not?
    Document says one thing. Trump does another. No consequences.

    That makes the constitution a bunch of meaningless words.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Document says one thing. Trump does another. No consequences.

    That makes the constitution a bunch of meaningless words.
    That is how it has always been.

    I will again say that HUD practiced discrimination in lending that led to segregated neighborhoods and schools. From before the mid '80s until the Supreme Court told the Obama administration it was unconstitutional. (A District Court had said the same in the mod '80s and the government essentially ignored that.)

    Obama went to the Supreme Court and argued for discrimination and segregation. Harm to tens of millions and no consequences.

    Yes. The Constitution is a bunch of meaningless words. We have a government of men and we are not good men.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Document says one thing. Trump does another. No consequences.

    That makes the constitution a bunch of meaningless words.
    No, that makes the SFBIC a perfect object lesson.

    'Children, your parents elected a Fascist President, and he stands a good chance of plunging the whole Earth into an authoritarian hellscape that humanity won't emerge from until well after you are dead.'

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    That is how it has always been.
    Pack up and get out.

    This country is too good for you.

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    With a wry smile.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by john smith View Post
    document says one thing. Trump does another. No consequences.

    That makes the constitution a bunch of meaningless words.
    wrong
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Okay, now that we've cleared that up ....
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    .
    The U.S. Constitution is the law of the land. Unfortunately in 2020 the top law enforcement officer of the land is either ignorant of the law or chooses to ignore the law.

    So in the absence of a responsible Executive, Legislature and Judiciary in 2020 is the U.S. Constitution merely a bunch of meaningless words?

    If tree falls in the forest and no creature is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
    "We have come to live in a society based on insults, on lies and on things that just aren't true. It creates an environment where deranged people feel empowered." -- Colin Powell, 10/30/18

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    .
    The U.S. Constitution is the law of the land. Unfortunately in 2020 the top law enforcement officer of the land is either ignorant of the law or chooses to ignore the law.

    So in the absence of a responsible Executive, Legislature and Judiciary in 2020 is the U.S. Constitution merely a bunch of meaningless words?

    If tree falls in the forest and no creature is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
    RBG lived and fought for nothing then? "A bunch of meaningless words"? A sucker like Trump says soldiers are suckers?
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    How do you teach people anything?

    People learn when they consent to learn, eh? Depending on the topic, some just dive in. Others need to be enticed, but then catch on fire for a subject. Others yet need to have someone show why they'd want to know it, why it actually matters. And a not insignificant % will just bloody resist.

    I couldn't do a quadratic equation now to save my life. I couldn't remember the dates of a single King of France, despite so many of them being named "Louis." But I could recite some poetry, talk with animated voice about some parts of history, about some parts of science, quite a lot of philosophy and social commentary. And music. God, I could bore you to tears.

    You guys have your own deep trenches of knowledge, and others where facts and analysis are bloody sparse. Because it didn't matter to you, or nobody found the right way to help you understand why you oughta care.

    Politics, constitutions, same thing.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Because it didn't matter to you, or nobody found the right way to help you understand why you oughta care.

    Politics, constitutions, same thing.
    No. Citizens have duties. Your hobbies are your business. Your duties as a citizen are my business.

    No one owes you (the hypothetical citizen) an explanation or help understanding it. They may find it in their interest. You need a very good excuse for your dereliction of duty. That's what you owe me.
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

  22. #22
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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Citizens have duties, obligations. Sure. But we live in "free" countries. Where the only people who need to perform those obligations even once are those who are immigrants, and have to perform certain rites to become citizens. The rest of us can "free ride."

    I can think any number of things about that, about the lapses (moral or otherwise) leading citizens to "free ride." And I do, personally. But unless I'm willing to dispense with at least some aspects of the "free country" part...

    For most of us, the moral obligations of citizenship are unenforceable, because we're "native born."
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    I don't know what you're referring to. The oath of citizenship? That's a requirement of naturalization, not a duty of citizenship.

    Who has the duties of citizenship? Citizens. What is this "free ride" you mention?

    Moral obligations are by definition unenforceable.
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

  24. #24
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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    The duties of citizenship include ... a basic knowledge of the Constitution? Maybe performing some acts to do with citizenship, like voting? Abiding by the law?

    C'mon. There are a whole lot of convicted criminals who've never voted, but retain their citizenship. There are manifestly a whole lot of misled Americans whose Constitutional "knowledge" was acquired from Hannity and Limbaugh, who are citizens nonetheless.

    When Reagan got dementia and his knowledge of the Constitution jumped off a cliff with all those other neurons, he was still a citizen.

    The "free ride" of citizenship in a "free country" is that citizenship for a native-born individual isn't contingent. It can't be revoked, unless you've taken the trouble to acquire citizenship somewhere else. And even then ... I can't think of a single case where a native-born (rather than naturalized) citizen had their citizenship stripped, for any reason.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Legal citizenship isn't the extent of citizenship. One can be a 100% legal citizen and a big zero otherwise. Even a negative number.

    One is free to scorn the moral duties of citizenship. It's not a shield from the judgment of one's fellow citizens.
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    wrong
    Laws, the constitution, and such have no meaning unless they are enforced.

    How can that statement be wrong?
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    .
    The U.S. Constitution is the law of the land. Unfortunately in 2020 the top law enforcement officer of the land is either ignorant of the law or chooses to ignore the law.

    So in the absence of a responsible Executive, Legislature and Judiciary in 2020 is the U.S. Constitution merely a bunch of meaningless words?

    If tree falls in the forest and no creature is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
    Yes, it makes a sound. Sound waves exist whether or not someone is their to hear them. No?
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    RBG lived and fought for nothing then? "A bunch of meaningless words"? A sucker like Trump says soldiers are suckers?
    They mean something when they are enforced, and there's no guarantee they'll be enforced.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    How do you teach people anything?

    People learn when they consent to learn, eh? Depending on the topic, some just dive in. Others need to be enticed, but then catch on fire for a subject. Others yet need to have someone show why they'd want to know it, why it actually matters. And a not insignificant % will just bloody resist.

    I couldn't do a quadratic equation now to save my life. I couldn't remember the dates of a single King of France, despite so many of them being named "Louis." But I could recite some poetry, talk with animated voice about some parts of history, about some parts of science, quite a lot of philosophy and social commentary. And music. God, I could bore you to tears.

    You guys have your own deep trenches of knowledge, and others where facts and analysis are bloody sparse. Because it didn't matter to you, or nobody found the right way to help you understand why you oughta care.

    Politics, constitutions, same thing.
    Or you've got alternative facts being presented in a number of places. One gets to choose as facts those that are not inconvenient. Many people refused to believe cigarettes might give you cancer; it was inconvenient, so they chose to believe those few who told them that was wrong. I knew many, and they all died from cancer they got from smoking.

    Same with climate change. Rather than change some habits, one simply chooses the 'climate change is a hoax' to believe; more frequent, more severe storms or droughts aside.

    Now it's Covid. People choose to believe Fauci or Trump.

    As I've said often, we've accepted lying for political purpose as free speech, and it will destroy the country.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Laws, the constitution, and such have no meaning unless they are enforced.

    How can that statement be wrong?
    Because they may be enforced in the next nanosecond.
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

  31. #31
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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    They mean something when they are enforced, and there's no guarantee they'll be enforced.
    Yeah. You have to do the work yourself. Who EVER told you anything about a GUARANTEE? What do think, you just bought a LAWNMOWER?
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Citizens have duties, obligations. Sure. But we live in "free" countries. Where the only people who need to perform those obligations even once are those who are immigrants, and have to perform certain rites to become citizens. The rest of us can "free ride."

    I can think any number of things about that, about the lapses (moral or otherwise) leading citizens to "free ride." And I do, personally. But unless I'm willing to dispense with at least some aspects of the "free country" part...

    For most of us, the moral obligations of citizenship are unenforceable, because we're "native born."
    Sad, but true. We have the right to vote, and many fail to do so. We have people in our government who deny some the right to vote, based on how they think those people will vote if allowed.

    Gerrymandering is all too common, and ought not be tolerated.

    There are various efforts made to put some form of 'poll tax' on voters. Would it be bad idea for presidential candidates to take a test on the constitution?

    How about a presidential (or other) candidate having to pass a background security check?
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    Because they may be enforced in the next nanosecond.
    Or they may not be. Undoing damage takes a lot longer than doing damage.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    Yeah. You have to do the work yourself. Who EVER told you anything about a GUARANTEE? What do think, you just bought a LAWNMOWER?
    I vote. I write my reps. I certainly post in the bilge and other places.

    I had no power to prevent the detention of people without charge or trial. I didn't legalize torture or support the two wars W. started.

    In fact, I had suggested a multi-national anti-terrorist force be formed.

    The only people who get to enforce the constitution, or get to not enforce it, are those in our courts and our government.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: How does one teach students about the constitution

    A method that has proved effective in getting Tom's 'consent to learn' is to take away a few of the rights protected by the Constitution; that tends to get their attention

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