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Thread: Plans and calculations for carvel boats

  1. #1
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    Default Plans and calculations for carvel boats

    Hi all. Since I retired I have been spending several months a year on my ancestral island in Greece. Through the years I have built three sailboats, two of my own design, in plywood, one stitch and glue and two lapstrake (the last one here in Greece), but I know next to nothing about carvel building, which is the only traditional way in these parts. There is only one active boatyard on the island and it only does overhauls AFAIK. I doubt that there are any traditional boatwrights plying their trade any more. The whole set of skills in in danger of disappearing. I wish I could give it a try as part of my bucket list, that's the way I am (I taught myself to play the Greek bagpipes just before the last player on the island retired). But I have been unable to find any carvel plans or useful guidelines on how to size and space the components.

    Does anyone know of such plans and sources of calculations (rib thickness and spacing, plank thickness and width, etc.)? I'm looking at a boat 15-20 ft long.

    Thanks and cheers,
    Y

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Plans and calculations for carvel boats

    You could get a copy of Lloyds Rules for the Construction and Classification of Yachts (Wood). Copies are usually available from second-hand book sellers. That will give you calculations for pretty much everything. Though 15-20 ft is on the small side for Lloyds.

    Or look at similar sized carvel boats of which there are plenty around. The scantlings for a carvel sailboat are not usually really that critical unless you are building really on the edge lightweight.

    Cheers -- George
    To be truly free to live, one must be free to think and speak.

    A C Grayling

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Plans and calculations for carvel boats

    I bought this e-book http://www.macnaughtongroup.com/macn..._rule_book.htm
    and this book: Details on classic boat construction, Larry Pardey, has a separate section on scantling rules and additionally is full of information on carvel building.
    Good luck!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Plans and calculations for carvel boats

    Quote Originally Posted by 176inches View Post

    Does anyone know of such plans and sources of calculations (rib thickness and spacing, plank thickness and width, etc.)? I'm looking at a boat 15-20 ft long.

    Thanks and cheers,
    Y
    Are you looking for Greek-style sawn frames or steamed timbers?
    For sawn frames, seek permission to measure up existing boats, for steamed Skene's Elements of Yacht Design 8th edition 1973 (https://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-sear...ney-francis-s/) published scantling rules, but as George says, your size might be off the lower end of the validity.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Plans and calculations for carvel boats

    Woodenboat #243 from April '15 had an article about Nikos Daroukakis, a greek builder and designer of updated traditional designs. Well worth the read, although I couldn't find a contact adress while skimming it just now. Depending on how far Aegina is from you, might just be worth it to take a boat there and ask around.
    Last edited by MoritzSchwarzer; 09-06-2020 at 07:57 AM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Plans and calculations for carvel boats



    Available through our sponsor's bookstore...
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Plans and calculations for carvel boats

    Herreshoff's Rules for boat construction are better suited for small boats than Loydes rules. They can be found in Skene's Elements of Yacht Design as mentioned by Nick in post #4. No nautical library should be without a copy os Skene's!
    Jay

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Plans and calculations for carvel boats

    Thanks to all.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Plans and calculations for carvel boats

    I downloaded the McNaughton pamphlet, set up the spreadsheet and also contacted them with a couple of emails. Then I looked at a vague plan for a traditional Greek double-ender (although converted to hard chine or cold molding) and a video of the build of a carvel planked boat used for fishing on a Greek lake. The suggested frames are about 2 ft apart and actually fit the strength calculations, although they are probably too far apart for true carvel building (apparently too wide spacing may lead to planks sliding laterally against each other).

    It's been fun to scratch the surface but I don't see myself building another boat any time soon. Thanks again for all the suggestions.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Plans and calculations for carvel boats


  11. #11

    Default Re: Plans and calculations for carvel boats

    frames about 8 inch spacing

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Plans and calculations for carvel boats

    This Mediterranean 16ft Gozzo lateen motorsailer is drawn for carvel as well as glued construction. She'd fit right in. A Gartside design, she was puiblished in a recent Watercraft magazine.



    https://store.gartsideboats.com/coll...oat-design-238

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Plans and calculations for carvel boats

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    This Mediterranean 16ft Gozzo lateen motorsailer is drawn for carvel as well as glued construction. She'd fit right in. A Gartside design, she was puiblished in a recent Watercraft magazine.


    https://store.gartsideboats.com/coll...oat-design-238
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    [/COLOR]

    Thanks! Note the striking similarity to the "Athanatos" 4.9 meter double-ender, based on the Greek traditional type Gaita. But no detailed plans are available and the suggestion is for hard chine or cold molding with seven frames (two feet apart).

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Plans and calculations for carvel boats

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    This Mediterranean 16ft Gozzo lateen motorsailer is drawn for carvel as well as glued construction. She'd fit right in. A Gartside design, she was puiblished in a recent Watercraft magazine.



    https://store.gartsideboats.com/coll...oat-design-238
    That's very similar to a boat I sailed on when I was on Crete in the early 1970s. Gartside nailed it.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Plans and calculations for carvel boats

    For what it is worth, the Lightning is a 19 ft, 700 lb sailboat, and the original 1938 plans call for frames to be spaced 1 ft apart, except at the ends, where the 1st frame is 1 1/2 ft from the end. Early Lightnings had a bottom that was two layers of cedar, with the outside layer carvel planked. The sawn frames were 7/8 x 1 1/2" mahogany, except at the mast step, where three of them were 2" instead of 1 1/2".

    On my new Lightning, I was advised by a naval architect that all frames could be 1 1/2 ft apart except for those that are in high stress areas, such as at the mast step and where the centerboard is. I was also advised, that, except in high stress areas, where frames should be mahogany, WR cedar would be fine for frames. My boat is carvel planked with 11/16" WR cedar, and the planks are edged glued - the same way wooden Lightnings were built in the 1950s & 1960s.

    I have only had my new boat out 7 times so far, but it feels extremely stiff and solid.

    Mike

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