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Thread: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    It’s simple. You need a good cockpit cover. But then you should have one anyway.

    The sea is not going to jump into the cockpit. A few heavily ballasted keelboats (the Dragon class is notorious for this) will swamp and sink if heeled too far (this only seems to happen when racing).
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    Certainly the dinghies of the prewar era except for I-14's and sailing canoes were not.

    International 14's had to carry buoyancy tanks but I'm not sure that they were self rescuable in today's sense.

    .
    I have a pre-War 14. Believe me; it’s not.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    As I recall it wasn't until after WWII that designers and racers started to try to figure out how to make dinghies that could be self rescued. Paul Elfstrom's bailers, transom flaps. Boats with small cockpits like an OK dinghy. I remember learning how to swing the bow of a capsized Finn into the wind, do a lift up and let the wind right the boat to keep water out of it.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    Too many questions. What waters? What size crew typical/range. What design? By 'open cockpit'... are specifying a cabin boat, where the swamped bit will be the cockpit only? Or a totally open boat where the cockpit IS the boat?
    David G
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  5. #40
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    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    When you see rowing boats at marks in paintings of sandbagger racing, they were there to take up crew members that were discarded at the windward marks to lighten a boat.

    Now that's a bit of trivia that really helps define the term "rail meat!"

    Jeff

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    A few heavily ballasted keelboats (the Dragon class is notorious for this) will swamp and sink if heeled too far (this only seems to happen when racing).
    You can do this with a Flying Fifteen - hence he bags...
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    I recall that HRH Prince Philip managed it, when crewed by some friend of his called Uffa Fox.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    We've drifted the thread away from the OP who was thinking about open cockpit ballasted keel boats.

    Issues that the OP had were two: mooring and sailing. Unclear whether both cabin open cockpit and completely open cockpit were intentended. For both the mooriing situation is easily solved with cockpit covers and/ or electric bilge pumps.

    Sailing is different. For cabin open cockpit boats, generally companion way slides will allow them to survive a knockdown even if the cockpit is filled. Not always and I know of a couple of Friendships with big open cockpits that did not. If the boat is completely open it is a different story. Ballasted open boats like the aforementioned racing craft or traditional boats like the Tancook whaler in which I was a partner will sink if they don't have compartments or bags. Modern sport boats have compartments as well do day boats like my Romilly. I don't know if race boats like today's Stars or Etchells have been compartmented or bagged. I had to fit a set of custom buoyancy bags into the low freeboard Tancook to be able to get insurance as she had been sunk twice. The bags were designed to float the ballast, about 5000 pounds worth as we figured with a NA help that the wood part would float.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    Modern Etchells, Stars, Flying 15s and even Dragons normally have compartments to make them unsinkable.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    I grew up in a Cape Cod Knockabout and sailed much in Town Class and Narasketuck sloops. These boats could be swamped or capsized in carelessly handled but if so the floated with the combings out of the water and we had powerful hand pumps. Mom made sure to train us how far to press before dumping sail, how to pay attention, and how to manage a capsize should that happen - which it never did except in drill.

    Boats like the Wianno Senior, boasting that they never reef and sailing in blustery conditions, have never, to my knowledge, been swamped. One sank when it was leading another Senior in a race, off the wind and on the other's lee bow and she broached across the other's bow and was holed below the waterline. Down like a stone.

    My catboat Marmalade, with cockpit drains that could not keep up with a heavy rain and a huge cockpit, once took a very sudden windshift and gust from a beat in a Fresh Breeze (Force 5, 17-21 lt) to a beam reach in a Near Gale (Force 7, 28-33 kts). I was single reefed. In a moment we were shipping water over the combing. I dropped the sheet but the boom caught in the water and held us hard over and shipping water for nearly a minute before she rounded up. I scandalized and sailed into Lewis Bay where I anchored. While spending the next ninety minutes or so pumping I calculated how much water could bring the flooding up to the berth mattresses. About five tons.

    Traditional boats that survive are good for their waters and with good calm handling will take quite a lot of abuse.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    The Mackinaw boat I completed this year is open cockpit, it's all cockpit In style it is similar to the historic ones, but with some changes: I contacted a N.A. to help design flotation and water ballast into it to make it survivable if flooded. This hasn't been tested on the full size boat yet, but I made a 1:8 scale model of it before the big one, and it was self righting (not self bailing) to 115 degrees. (Photo of the full-size boat attached) As another thought, there was a WB magazine some years back with an article about traditional Irish boats and a photo shows auto-inflatable bags, like the life jackets tucked up under the gunnels both sides.

    IMG_6416.jpg

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    ^^^ Great boat! Maybe my favorite traditional design, although I'm too lazy to pull so many strings. And it's far bigger than I need as well. I'd love to see a thread about it (hint, hint!)

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  13. #48

    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    Thanks for the info everyone. I did buy that boat. She's a Moscungus Bay Sloop built by Robert Barker at the South Cove Boat Shop. I've got some work to do but I'm looking forward to sailing her next season in Moscungus Bay.


  14. #49
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    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    Good!!

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    That is an interesting mast extension at the top of the mast. Was that in the original design or added? How is attached to the wooden section?

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    Isn't it just that the top of the mast is painted white?

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  17. #52

    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    Yes, the top of the mast is painted white.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    Very nice!

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    ^^^ Great boat! Maybe my favorite traditional design, although I'm too lazy to pull so many strings. And it's far bigger than I need as well. I'd love to see a thread about it (hint, hint!)

    Tom
    Usually a thread works better if there is a question to be asked, so I'll lob a big one to you: Here's a link to my 'blog about the boat https://adrift314.wordpress.com/ whaddaya think? :-)

    Ken

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    Good purchase. I expect that to find you off Killick Stone island in Muscongus Bay, your dory ashore, hunting for stones for your anchors.

    Only little caveat: I have a vague recollection of sailing a Musgongus sloop maybe in Fisher's Island Sound on a steep chop well reefed day. Tacking proved interesting as she'd come up then stay there unless we had a lot of way on. Finally sorted by figuring out how to back the jib at the critical moment. It did take some experimentation.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    I have some thoughts of rigging my 24 foot double ended open motorboat with auxillary sails some day. Something that could get me home if the engine fails and that would reduce the rolling and give an extra knot when having a good wind from the side. It is a fiberglass boat built using a 1950-ies traditional wooden fishing boat as mould.
    Older versions of the type with no engines had pretty much the same underwater shape though they were narrower in proportion to the lenght and they carried a spritsail schooner rig in later days. In older days (up t the early 1800-s) they carried a single square sail. The spritsail rig took over because it was safer. Back in the days of square sails fishermen often drowned when they got the square sail aback and the boat capsized. Even later on sprit sail rigged boats have capsized though it is not a common occurance.

    What worries me is that the fiberglass hull will sing when swamped. The 150 kilo inboard engine will only make it sink even faster. The old time sailing boats were wooden and without engine they would float on the wood......... so I don't know really.......
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Any owners of open cockpit boats around? Would you do it again?

    Quote Originally Posted by heimlaga View Post
    I have some thoughts of rigging my 24 foot double ended open motorboat with auxillary sails some day. Something that could get me home if the engine fails and that would reduce the rolling and give an extra knot when having a good wind from the side. It is a fiberglass boat built using a 1950-ies traditional wooden fishing boat as mould.
    Older versions of the type with no engines had pretty much the same underwater shape though they were narrower in proportion to the lenght and they carried a spritsail schooner rig in later days. In older days (up t the early 1800-s) they carried a single square sail. The spritsail rig took over because it was safer. Back in the days of square sails fishermen often drowned when they got the square sail aback and the boat capsized. Even later on sprit sail rigged boats have capsized though it is not a common occurance.

    What worries me is that the fiberglass hull will sing when swamped. The 150 kilo inboard engine will only make it sink even faster. The old time sailing boats were wooden and without engine they would float on the wood......... so I don't know really.......
    When we dealt with that problem on the Tancook, we added enough float bags to float the ballast. If that it is a real issue. you'll need to figure the weight of the boat and engine, and build compartments or add bags to float it.

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