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Thread: Is this the America you want?

  1. #1
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    Default Is this the America you want?

    Cut down on the number of in person voting places, making lines longer.

    Screw up the postal service so election mail is not longer treated as a priority, so ballot requests won't be delivered promptly, ballots won't get to the voter promptly, and the ballots won't get back to the election people promptly, and many will never get counted.

    No patriotic American can support the sabotage of our elections, but that is precisely what is happening right before our eyes.

    Now I see a piece telling me deliberately screwing with the mail is a federal crime for which the new PMG can be prosecuted: except he'll be pardoned. Why do people think all the 'rules' still apply?
    Last edited by John Smith; 08-13-2020 at 09:13 AM.
    Can we have him keel hauled?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    A corrupt electoral system seems to be reaching it's nadir.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Vote suppression is a civil rights violation. Where is the ACLU? Where are the courts? Where, for the love of all that is good, are the marchers and the sit-ins and the protest singers and the demonstrators? Your government is turning back the hard-won gains of the mid-20th century civil rights movement and the only response I can see is impotent grumbling.

    (I'm not criticizing you, John - I just don't understand how and why Turnip is being allowed to get away with this stuff. His actions are the precise reason why the USA supposedly has "checks and balances", yet to all appearances, they are not being used.)

    What are you doing about it?




  4. #4
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    Cool Re: Is this the America you want?

    I will be voting by mail.
    It'll get there....eventually.
    Keep calm, persistence beats resistance.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    Vote suppression is a civil rights violation. Where is the ACLU? Where are the courts? Where, for the love of all that is good, are the marchers and the sit-ins and the protest singers and the demonstrators? Your government is turning back the hard-won gains of the mid-20th century civil rights movement and the only response I can see is impotent grumbling.

    (I'm not criticizing you, John - I just don't understand how and why Turnip is being allowed to get away with this stuff. His actions are the precise reason why the USA supposedly has "checks and balances", yet to all appearances, they are not being used.)
    I'm hoping stuff is happening behind the scenes, but it all takes time, and time is running out.

    Trump has succeeded in bending our governmental institutions to his will. Do as he wants, or he fires you, and few have had the integrity to resign in protest and explain why they resigned.

    His followers are not better off than they were four years ago, but they still follow as sheep.

    Counties are going to have to figure out how to get ballots to voters and get them back. States have to change from counting ballots that arrive on time to counting ballots based on postmark, and if there is no postmark, assume it was mailed on time.

    I'm not at all sure what can be done to prevent any of what Trump is doing.

    He has stacked the courts, so we ought not count on them.
    Can we have him keel hauled?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    The head of the postal workers union in Iowa implied all of this yesterday on NPR. The brand new Postmaster General, a former donor to the Trump campaign, is essentially purposely crippling the postal service. It is happening.

    Mickey Lake
    'A disciple of the Norse god of aesthetically pleasing boats, Johan Anker'

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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Early voting inTexas begins October 13. I'll vote in person at the library a few days later.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    Vote suppression is a civil rights violation. Where is the ACLU? Where are the courts? Where, for the love of all that is good, are the marchers and the sit-ins and the protest singers and the demonstrators? Your government is turning back the hard-won gains of the mid-20th century civil rights movement and the only response I can see is impotent grumbling.

    (I'm not criticizing you, John - I just don't understand how and why Turnip is being allowed to get away with this stuff. His actions are the precise reason why the USA supposedly has "checks and balances", yet to all appearances, they are not being used.)
    You're familiar with the adage, 'A lie can be halfway around the world before the truth can get its pants on'?

    An analogous truth is that it's a lot easier/faster to sabotage a process than it is to defend - by legal means - the institution involved. That's part of Trump's m.o. But his antics are not being ignored.


    Oh, and Mr. Smith, had you noticed that there's already a thread on this same topic?

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...l-the-election
    David G
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    it's a lot easier/faster to sabotage a process than it is to defend - by legal means - the institution involved.
    Sure. But when the process is the centrepiece of your very democracy, and the "legal means" are supposed to be built into that venerated constitution but aren't actually working, it feeds my suspicion that the USA is broken beyond repair.

    What are you doing about it?




  10. #10
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    Sure. But when the process is the centrepiece of your very democracy, and the "legal means" are supposed to be built into that venerated constitution but aren't actually working, it feeds my suspicion that the USA is broken beyond repair.
    It’s not the US, it’s the Republican death cult. Every society ultimately depends on people, they aren’t dependable. Just look at the whackos here that people still treat as “good people”.

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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    It’s not the US, it’s the Republican death cult. Every society ultimately depends on people, they aren’t dependable. Just look at the whackos here that people still treat as “good people”.
    Sure. But what I'm saying is that if a minority of whack jobs can end run your constitution's checks and balances, the constitution would appear to be sub-optimal... and it appears to me that those whack jobs can also prevent its amendment. I do not believe the USA can be repaired without a new constitution - in short, a new nation.

    What are you doing about it?




  12. #12
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    You're familiar with the adage, 'A lie can be halfway around the world before the truth can get its pants on'?

    An analogous truth is that it's a lot easier/faster to sabotage a process than it is to defend - by legal means - the institution involved. That's part of Trump's m.o. But his antics are not being ignored.


    Oh, and Mr. Smith, had you noticed that there's already a thread on this same topic?

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...l-the-election
    I did notice after, and was going to delete this one, but there were several posts, so.......
    Can we have him keel hauled?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    It’s not the US, it’s the Republican death cult. Every society ultimately depends on people, they aren’t dependable. Just look at the whackos here that people still treat as “good people”.
    True, but will the country survive the GOP?
    Can we have him keel hauled?

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    All you need do is go on any comment section involving politics. Facebook, Youtube, or quora, and you will see dozens if not hundreds of posts affirming that yes, this is the America they way. They cannot let the Liberals win at any cost.
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    27 mailboxes removed in our city of 170K. Post office says it's because people are not using them during the pandemic.
    They say they are trying to save money.
    How are we going to vote by mail?
    Trump tactic to screw Democrats is going ahead every day....this is treason, illegal and an outrage.

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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    Sure. But what I'm saying is that if a minority of whack jobs can end run your constitution's checks and balances, the constitution would appear to be sub-optimal... and it appears to me that those whack jobs can also prevent its amendment. I do not believe the USA can be repaired without a new constitution - in short, a new nation.
    And I'd say you're incorrect.

    As evidence, I offer the various times we've been in a similarly effdup state... or worst... and survived.

    As evidence, you offer...
    David G
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofswen View Post
    27 mailboxes removed in our city of 170K. Post office says it's because people are not using them during the pandemic.
    They say they are trying to save money.
    How are we going to vote by mail?
    Trump tactic to screw Democrats is going ahead every day....this is treason, illegal and an outrage.
    How does that save money? I have seen the postal employees check the boxes, it takes all of thirty seconds to open it up, grab the box, replace the box, and lock it all tight.
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Pointless question, it is of course nothing to do with saving money, and everything to do with corrupting the election..

    But then you knew that.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    it is sadly true, we get the government we deserve.
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    "everything to do with corrupting the election.."

    if it's not stopped, the country is lost.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    "<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250);">everything to do with corrupting the election.."<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;if it's not stopped, the country is lost.<br></span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250);">

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  23. #23
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    yep, I saw that...where did you get the picture?

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    If you can stand in line at the liquor store, you can stand in line at the polls. Wear a mask, everything will be fine.
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”― Mark Twain,


  25. #25
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Folks use the mail for more than voting Brian. This is seriously effecting people’s lives. Prescription meds, checks, small businesses. Do you really support trump* doing this?

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    And I'd say you're incorrect. As evidence, I offer the various times we've been in a similarly effdup state... or worst... and survived.
    I didn't say you can't survive, I said you can't fix what's broken without a new constitution. You've never managed to fix what's broken. You fought a civil war over one aspect of it, and even that part of the problem hasn't been fixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    As evidence, you offer...
    The Electoral College. The Senate. The amount of money required to buy a seat in Congress. Gerrymandering and other voter suppression strategies. Citizens United. Corporate personhood. The USA's swift decline on indicators of health, education, social mobility, equality, and many other indicators of quality of life. Fox News. The fact, ferchrissake, that 41% of your population thinks Turnip is doing a good job.

    What are you doing about it?




  27. #27
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    Folks use the mail for more than voting Brian. This is seriously effecting people’s lives. Prescription meds, checks, small businesses. Do you really support trump* doing this?
    Yes, he really does.

    I really don't get the love people have for our correspondent from Sitka.

    He's always supported drowning the Constitution in a bath tub.
    Rattling the teacups.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    I didn't say you can't survive, I said you can't fix what's broken without a new constitution. You've never managed to fix what's broken. You fought a civil war over one aspect of it, and even that part of the problem hasn't been fixed.
    Racism is the festering wound that has finally sent us into septic shock.

    If we do not accept our fellow citizens as being equals, liberal democracy is a sham.
    Rattling the teacups.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Yes, he really does.

    I really don't get the love people have for our correspondent from Sitka.

    He's always supported drowning the Constitution in a bath tub.
    i don’t get the denial.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    I didn't say you can't survive, I said you can't fix what's broken without a new constitution. You've never managed to fix what's broken. You fought a civil war over one aspect of it, and even that part of the problem hasn't been fixed.



    The Electoral College. The Senate. The amount of money required to buy a seat in Congress. Gerrymandering and other voter suppression strategies. Citizens United. Corporate personhood. The USA's swift decline on indicators of health, education, social mobility, equality, and many other indicators of quality of life. Fox News. The fact, ferchrissake, that 41% of your population thinks Turnip is doing a good job.
    All quite legitimate examples of dysfunction. And - taken all together and in conjunction with whatever madness tRump & his enablers conjure up in the next few months - you could be right.

    But comparing this stew to others we've known... I'd say it's not beyond what we've recovered from. What makes you think it is? Not the stew... we agree on that. The larger context??

    Are you sure you're not just succumbing to the nihilism fostered by the oligarchs. They really want you to, you know.
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  31. #31
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Racism is the festering wound that has finally sent us into septic shock.

    If we do not accept our fellow citizens as being equals, liberal democracy is a sham.
    Yes. And racism is directly responsible for some of the structural flaws (Senate seats etc.) that now constitute part of the problem.

    What are you doing about it?




  32. #32
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    I'd say it's not beyond what we've recovered from.
    The USA has recovered from racism? The USA has recovered from a Senate structure that gives people from low population rural states a huge advantage in political influence? The USA has recovered from gerrymandering, polling shenanigans, and other voter suppression strategies? The USA has recovered from treating corporations like people, and allowing "people" to funnel unlimited anonymous campaign contributions to their bought-and-sold politicians? The USA has recovered from its deep and bitter political divide? Its bozotic healthcare system?

    I will grant former progress on economic inequality, though it has been rolled back along with the hard-won gains of the labour movement, but I was not aware of these other recoveries.

    What are you doing about it?




  33. #33
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    The USA has recovered from racism? The USA has recovered from a Senate structure that gives people from low population rural states a huge advantage in political influence? The USA has recovered from gerrymandering, polling shenanigans, and other voter suppression strategies? The USA has recovered from treating corporations like people, and allowing "people" to funnel unlimited anonymous campaign contributions to their bought-and-sold politicians? The USA has recovered from its deep and bitter political divide? Its bozotic healthcare system?

    I will grant former progress on economic inequality, though it has been rolled back along with the hard-won gains of the labour movement, but I was not aware of these other recoveries.
    No, that's not at all what I'm saying.

    Not at all.

    I've agreed several times already that it's a mess. I've agreed that it's a top-tier mess. And you want to keep hammering on how bad it is. It. Is. Bad. I'm not suggesting it's not.

    That said... is it beyond redemption? I say no. History says no.

    What I'm saying is that we've been in similar, arguably even worse, messes... and recovered. Not guaranteeing that we will this time. But our nations history tells us that it's entirely possible. Which you seem to be denying.

    Throwing in the towel.

    Prematurely.

    C'mon... try a little harder.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    i don’t get the denial.
    It's his MO. Any one who points out the inherent flaws in the US gets the same responce.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  35. #35
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    Default Re: Is this the America you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    No, that's not at all what I'm saying.

    Not at all.

    I've agreed several times already that it's a mess. I've agreed that it's a top-tier mess. And you want to keep hammering on how bad it is. It. Is. Bad. I'm not suggesting it's not.

    That said... is it beyond redemption? I say no. History says no.

    What I'm saying is that we've been in similar, arguably even worse, messes... and recovered. Not guaranteeing that we will this time. But our nations history tells us that it's entirely possible. Which you seem to be denying.

    Throwing in the towel.

    Prematurely.

    C'mon... try a little harder.
    That was being debated here: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...ng-our-society

    As you will see, my point is that you will not recover because the majority of your voters are content with the status quo, and could not give a toss about reform.

    Thoughts and Prayers.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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