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Thread: Another fat boat picture

  1. #1
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    Default Another fat boat picture

    A photo taken on the weekend of a new lobsterboat on its way from the builder's shop to the water. Yes, this is a fifty-foot long boat. Beam is, I think, thirty-two feet.

    SW Nova lobsrter boat july 2020.jpg
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    We're approaching the threshold at which we'll stop calling them fishing boats and start calling them fishing platforms.
    The true patriotism, the only rational patriotism, is loyalty to the Nation ALL the time, loyalty to the Government when it deserves it.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Bolger must be spinning...

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    'Honey, does this trailer make my boat look fat?'

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Somebody pulled a swimming pool out of the ground and put a deck on it.
    The Algorithm Is Watching

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    The rear view mirrors do a lot of good, eh?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Why not just make them saucers?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Fifty by thirty two? That sounds absurd! Is the length regulated?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Hazard View Post
    Fifty by thirty two? That sounds absurd! Is the length regulated?
    Yes. Fisheries regulations limit lobster boats to 15 meters LOA (49-ft. 2-1/2 In.). There are a few boats in the area at 35 feet wide.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Methinks they would have done better to regulate waterplane area.

    What are you doing about it?




  11. #11
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Are these boats rigged to process large strings of traps faster than is possible in more normally proportioned boats? Otherwise it seems a great waste of fuel to drag so much boat around all season.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    I can't imagine that they'd run them at this size if they weren't more profitable than a boat of more conventional dimensions.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    That's what I'm trying to figure out. Most of the season lobster boats are just running their strings of traps. The traps come up over the side one by one, are emptied and re-baited, then they go overboard again off the stern. It's only at the beginning and end of the season that they need to stack great numbers of traps on deck. Is fuel THAT cheap?

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    The rear view mirrors do a lot of good, eh?
    Mobile home hauler here in the US usually mount rear-view mirrors on widespread extension poles - is there a regulation against this in Canada ?




    Rick

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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Flying Orca: I have been advocating for a few decades that the way to limit a fishery is to limit a.) the size of the fishing gear (i.e.; number of traps, number of nets); but most importantly, b.) the size of the fish hold. Allow the fishermen to have a boat any size they want, but limit how much they can carry home. They will quickly determine the size of boat & motor that gives them the best working platform and horsepower to maximize profit and make a comfortable and safe boat. Limiting LOA is ineffective, as these boats show. Problem is, if you enact such sweeping changes to the Transport Canada and Fisheries & Oceans regulations, how do you accommodate the tens of thousands of boats already in service?

    Rob Hazard: The driving idea of the large boats is that the fishermen want to stack ALL of their traps (up to five hundred) on the boat at once, even though this is usually only done on Dumping Day. When the fisherman is shifting gear from one place to another at sea, he usually only picks up a few hundred traps. Yes, fishing is done in "strings" of traps, usually twelve to fifteen pots to a string. Yes, the boats often operate with no pots on deck. A lot of boats are now incorporating live wells to store the catch in crates submerged in circulating seawater. I love this, as it requires a stability test and booklet, which not only provides me with an income but I believe that all such boats should have a stability booklet prepared for them, whether is profits me or not. Now if we could only get the government to decree that the owner/captain of a boat that requires a stability booklet is required to understand the contents of a stability booklet! Fuel is not cheap at all, but lobsters are very profitable.

    hawkeye54: Why would you need rear-view mirrors when a.) nothing can get around you so you don't need to watch for anything coming; b.) speed never exceeds walking pace; c.) the distance traveled is a mile or less; d.) there are lots of people walking along with the boat providing directional feedback to the truck driver, and e.) the road is closed for the transport duration. The driver only needs to see the location of the trailer outrigger wheels, and he can see those with is normal mirrors.
    Last edited by mmd; 07-27-2020 at 10:20 AM.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Thanks, Michael,
    I hadn't considered that offshore a lobsterman might pick up all his traps in one area to move them all to another, more productive spot. All the lobster boats I see are working inshore (duh!) so they are never too far from home. I like the logic of your fish hold capacity idea. Maybe some day, eh?
    Last edited by Rob Hazard; 07-28-2020 at 07:52 AM.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    ^I won't be holding my breath. Old habits die very, very slowly. Scientists - my brother-in-law among them - were yelling at the federal government to limit the fishery effort on the northern cod stock since the early 1960's right up until the collapse of the stock in the early 1990's. Nothing changed.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Getting there, Ian. No guns yet, though...
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Ian, I am very interested in that model and ashamed to write that I don recognize the flag. What is the vessel? In whose navy was it?

    I am sure that you know that the Russians, when they sent their fleet around to do battle with the Japanese, and suffer a disastrous defeat and embarrassment, their fleet contained some round battleships. Do you have any pictures?

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    A failed experiment of Imperial Russia. Google something like 'circular battleship'.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    The Novgorod

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_monitor_Novgorod

    Whether true or not the uncontrollable whirling around was a bit hilarious.
    Will

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Quote Originally Posted by willmarsh3 View Post
    The Novgorod

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_monitor_Novgorod

    Whether true or not the uncontrollable whirling around was a bit hilarious.
    Weren't the circular ships used against the British & Truks in the late 1800's? Maybe that was just in some historical novel I read...
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    Somebody pulled a swimming pool out of the ground and put a deck on it.
    that’s it

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Not quite circular but nearly. The Russian Imperial Yacht Livadia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia...Livadia_(1880)
    https://www.waldenfont.com/papermode...p?productid=11


    Nick

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Quote Originally Posted by mmd View Post
    Yes. Fisheries regulations limit lobster boats to 15 meters LOA (49-ft. 2-1/2 In.). There are a few boats in the area at 35 feet wide.
    I've been wondering why no twin hulls. Lobstering equipment and payload is not such a heavy weight. Or is it?

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    I just knew that somebody was going to bring catamarans up. It's a long, sordid story...

    There have been a couple of cat lobster boats built in the region. Both were, if I may be blunt, a designer's idea forced down the unsuspecting fisherman's throat with inadequate consultation with fishermen nor sufficient understanding of the conditions that these boats work in. Both were failures, one abjectly so. I believe that there is a good catamaran lobster boat design awaiting in the fevered mind of some designer (every day I see one when I look in the mirror), but convincing a local fisherman to actually BUY one is gonna be a very steep hill to climb because of the previous failures.

    The two primary obstacles to cat lobster boats are seaworthiness and carrying capacity. Seaworthiness first:

    To ensure maximum deck space for carrying traps once a year, the deckhouse is pushed as far forward as possible. To maximize hold capacity*, the engine & mechanicals are pushed as far forward as possible. This results in a bow-heavy boat. This is exacerbated by the tendency for cat hulls to have a fine entry, meaning that there is precious little reserve buoyancy to keep the bow up when it plunges into an on-coming swell. The bow pretty much submerges, flinging green water at the wheelhouse windows barely five feet aft of the bows, occasionally breaking the glass. Meanwhile, the bows bury deep enough that the bridgedeck between the hulls slams into the top of the wave with enough force that it cracks the hull and superstructure at stress-concentration points. And the ride is rough as hell.

    * Hold capacity, like deck space, is often only needed one day a year, when all the owner's traps are aboard for Dumping Day. However, there is an increasing trend to installing live wells to keep the catch in, now that the boats go out for multiple-day trips instead of being home every night, so this raises the vessel's carrying capacity, which cats do not excel at.

    Carrying capacity: In addition to the above, these larger boats are very expensive (million-dollars plus), so they are often used in other fisheries, most notably around here, in herring fishing, often as carriers for a larger seine boat so that the seiner can stay out and fish rather than go to shore to unload. A cat just does not have the carrying capacity for this fishery. Some of the local boats go scallop fishing in the off-lobster season. This is the golden light that I see at the end of the tuinnel - scallops , like lobster, are high-value, low-volume catches, and the stability and large deck area of a cat lobster boat would be an almost ideal platform for inshore scallop fishing.

    I have the design for the "new and improved lobster-cat" pretty much worked out in my head, but I am not sure that I will live long enough to see the current prejudices against cats ease enough to have it given a fair consideration, much less that seing it built. But, I will put it on paper and do the math so when I do wave it around someday, at least I'll be ready with my defense of it.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    Must turn well but does it need six props?

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Fat boats on a smaller scale - the coracle.




    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coracle
    Will

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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Skip

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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Reminds me of a Steven Wright joke:

    "I went camping recently. I brought a circus tent." (moves his head in a high arc from left to right) "People complained because they couldn't see the lake."
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Must turn well but does it need six props?
    Based on the waterline to have the props in the water, the "bow" is pretty darned blunt.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Quote Originally Posted by mmd View Post
    A photo taken on the weekend of a new lobsterboat on its way from the builder's shop to the water. Yes, this is a fifty-foot long boat. Beam is, I think, thirty-two feet.

    SW Nova lobsrter boat july 2020.jpg
    Material? Glassified? Or weldified metal?

    If glass, that's a might big form.

    If metal, that's some nice plate forming at the chine and good weld smoothing.

    Do tell.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    Solid 'glass hull, Bob, with 'glassed plywood bulkheads, deck & superstructure; 'glass-covered solid timber deckbeams, shelf, engine beds, and superstructure cornerposts & framing. I don't think much of the construction materials, but "that's the way we always done it" is the throaty roar from almost all the local builders.

    The hull that comes out of the mould doesn't look anything like the boat you see in front of you. Pretty much every mould in the region is between 42' and 44' LOA and between 21' and 24' BOA. The hull - sometimes fully-formed and sometimes partially-formed - that comes out of the mould is routinely sliced from transom almost to the bow about four feet from centreline on both sides and spread apart to the desired width, and the gaping wounds simply fitted with resin-coated plywood underneath to form a partial mould then the insert piece is 'glassed into the hull. That done, then the transom is cut off about six inches or a foot from the inner transom face and an extension of the hull - using the turn of the bilge panels taken out of the mould and flat panels laminated on a table - is laminated in place to achieve the desired length of hull. Often the hull that is being sliced and diced is not laminated to full thickness until after the slicing and dicing has been done, then additional laminations are added to the hull interior to bring it to required thickness. Every single hull is a full-blown, one-off custom.

    The full-blown custom hull for each client is a blessing for me and a curse for the customer. All these boats have to have a stability booklet prepared for them, but since every hull is different, a lines plan has to be made for it after the fact. So the hull has to be measured, a lines plan drawn, and then the stability work can begin. If these were truly the same hulls out of a common mould, then the hull measurement would only have to be done once, and every hull from the same mould can be deemed a "sister hull", saving the boat owner about five to seven grand on the cost of the stability booklet. But, they all want a boat the way they want it and money doesn't seem to be an issue, so I keep busy measuring boats. I was just in a boatshop today to advise the builder on how to set up a boat so I can take her lines. That will happen either Thursday or sometime next week. I wish I had access to a draftsperson who knew how to draw lines plans on CAD from field notes; it takes up too much of my time.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Another fat boat picture

    ^ I don't know whether to say OYSH or YIKES! But it does make for a much, much smaller mold. Interesting! (When I designed things, I gave great thought to how it would be manufactured or fabricated, not just "over the wall, you folks in manufacturing figure it out.")

    Lines plans: To me at least, the hard part wouldn't be converting from notes to CAD, assuming the CAD has good curve-fitting, which they all do now (during college I wrote a curve-fit program, not graphics but to generate a formula, in FORTRAN77); The hard part would be the measurement. See, this is where a really big laser scanner would save a ton of time, much faster even than the world's largest coordinate measuring machine.

    EDIT: I would try to do it different (But what do I know? I don't design boats.). Forms are from generally cheap materials. If they actually are making multiple hulls and want them to be as close as possible, I would segment the mold (full hull), allowing the mold to be assembled from pieces, laminate the hull, take the mold off in pieces and store. One piece hull, no cutting and joining. Two advantages: 1) Should greatly simplify and speed construction, and 2) if the mold is sufficiently rigid, precise, and repeatable, you don't need to measure every hull for a separate stability booklet. I know, "Shhhh."
    Last edited by Bob (oh, THAT Bob); 07-29-2020 at 02:00 AM.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

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