Page 1 of 3 12 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 77

Thread: Letter from South Africa

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Jhb ,Gauteng,South Africa
    Posts
    41

    Default Letter from South Africa

    As I start this there's gunshots-two neighbours whatapp to see if we're ok. We are-hardly regestered a nearby gun shot. Anyway, 25 years after being blessed with democracy the "Ruling Party" (thats what they like to call themselves) has removed as many whites as possible from all levels of government and State Owned Enterprises and replaced them with double the number of loyal party supporters at triple the pay. This has led to huge inefficiencies evwrywhere, rampant corruption, a vast patronage network, coupled with radical unionism that thwarts any reformation of the public service and, more importantly, a very disfunctional education system. Small towns are bankrupt, as is the national airline, the national electricity supplier, national broadcaster. Rivers and dams have untreated sewage. Economy was in recession , now its contracted 7%.Unemployment is 50%.Theft of everything from manhole covers, freeway crash barriers, railway tracks, copper cable from traffic lights and lampposts. And the State's response-more Affirmative Action and more taxes! That's why I'm buildind a boat. John

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    57,530

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    What kind of boat John?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    66,575

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    A perfect illustration of the 'victorious' oppressed becoming the things they replaced. Sometimes... in spades!! Good luck to you, and to your nascent government.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Jhb ,Gauteng,South Africa
    Posts
    41

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    The boat is a Departure35, which I started 30 years ago and then stopped as life got in the way. I ran a labour-intensive furniture production shop that has slowly faded away(Aids took my top workers and left me bottom heavy with "general workers" who werent going anywhere and weren't leaving.)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    57,530

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    wish you the best

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Jhb ,Gauteng,South Africa
    Posts
    41

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    So, our community of small holdings comprises of about 25 white households, 4 vlack households, 3indian/moslem and 1 coloured (yes, theres a big difference between coloured and black ) is surrounded by an electric fence. My 5 acres is fenced and topped with razor wire,there are 12 sensors surrounding the house and out buildings, which have bars and locks. Spotlights and alarms. Only 3 dogs these days. Guns and other weapons. And a neighbourhood watch, fully armed. No 911.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,398

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Is it still home? Or is it time to go? And the boat for that purpose.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Jhb ,Gauteng,South Africa
    Posts
    41

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Still building-hopefully a year or so. Its a 35ft steel and wood ketch. I was in the merchant navy a long time ago. The annoyung thing is due to our dreadful state of affairs the property market is equally dreadful, like 50% down. So thats probably the reason for my rant. I have 3 rental units on my small holding, and my loyal , diligent handiman/gardener, but rentung out the main house has its challenges.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Barrie, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    5,969

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    A perfect illustration of the 'victorious' oppressed becoming the things they replaced. Sometimes... in spades!! Good luck to you, and to your nascent government.
    I think you just called black people spades.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    66,575

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hadfield View Post
    I think you just called black people spades.
    Jeebus, people...
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    12,395

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    I've been to South Africa, in the "old days" and recently.

    Can't say it worked very well for most people back when the whenwe tribe was in charge.

    Brazil is a similar mess, for not dissimilar reasons. For both countries, I say this: imagine if the majority of the population had been given an education and basic rights back in the old days. Maybe they and their children would be better voters today.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    On the river, Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    6,237

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    We've a lot of South African people here in NZ, same has happened in Australia and quite a few other countries. They're generally well qualified, skilled people, the kind who make a countries wheels go around, the kind of people that a country cant do without. They're a real asset here, but its very sad to see South Africa lose them.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,398

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    What happens when the alarms go off at night? Is it property crime (theft) or a real assault of the compound? It’s difficult to imagine wild west shootouts. I would have imagined more dogs would be a benefit.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Jhb ,Gauteng,South Africa
    Posts
    41

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Its usually property crime. But home invasion is also common, and can be very violent. Two weeks ago there was a shootout at the Zion Christian Church compound amoungst different church factions that left 5 dead. (its a wealthy leaderless church).
    As to better education for the people-South Africa spends by far the most per capita for a developing country and the results are we are stone last on outcomes-youngsters can be functionaly illitetate and innumerate after leaving school.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Jhb ,Gauteng,South Africa
    Posts
    41

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Dogs are our first line of defence but are easily poisoned.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,398

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Thanks. Where do you get your local news? Is there something like a local english language newspaper I can access on the internet?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Tacoma, WA
    Posts
    15,513

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    What was life like for a black man in the townships in, say, 1985? Were those the good old days?
    The Algorithm Is Watching

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    northern Georgia, or Mississippi Delta USA
    Posts
    21,707

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    I've been to South Africa, in the "old days" and recently.

    Can't say it worked very well for most people back when the whenwe tribe was in charge.

    Brazil is a similar mess, for not dissimilar reasons. For both countries, I say this: imagine if the majority of the population had been given an education and basic rights back in the old days. Maybe they and their children would be better voters today.
    This also applies to some parts of the USA.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Jhb ,Gauteng,South Africa
    Posts
    41

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Hi Tom, you could try enca. com.
    In the bad old days there were restrictions on africans moving to urban areas, so the townships had law and order, full empkoyment, reasonable health services. The rural areas were neglected. But by 1985 dissent and violence was been dealt with by the army. By that stage the apartheid government could do nothing to appease the masses. Even today schools and clinics are vandalised or burnt in "service delivery protests"

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Do you have a warrant?
    Posts
    8,157

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    You reap what you sow. This is what happens when the majority of citizens are denied equal rights for generations, then unrest, then the majority follow those on their side that are strong enough to speak out, but are sometimes corrupt. "The oppressed become the oppressors." The poverty in Germany after WW1 sowed the seeds for WWII. China. Vietnam. Cuba. And the United States is headed in that direction. A good thing? No, unrest is not a good thing. But it is expected following oppression.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Sitka, AK
    Posts
    28,282

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    You reap what you sow. This is what happens when the majority of citizens are denied equal rights for generations, then unrest, then the majority follow those on their side that are strong enough to speak out, but are sometimes corrupt. "The oppressed become the oppressors." The poverty in Germany after WW1 sowed the seeds for WWII. China. Vietnam. Cuba. And the United States is headed in that direction. A good thing? No, unrest is not a good thing. But it is expected following oppression.
    Jeebus, people...
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”― Mark Twain,


  22. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    12,395

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by phlygh View Post
    As to better education for the people-South Africa spends by far the most per capita for a developing country and the results are we are stone last on outcomes-youngsters can be functionaly illitetate and innumerate after leaving school.
    Here in Brazil we have the feeling it is us that spend the most for the worst result...

    There are many problems, but the most intractable one is that the teachers are no good. They are barely educated themselves. I do outreach at the local public schools. Some of those people shouldn't be teaching, but I look around the community and... who would be willing to replace them that is better prepared? Where do you recruit good teachers (or civil servants, for that matter) when the majority of adults got poorly educated?

  23. #23
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Gauteng, South Africa
    Posts
    483

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Sure, Bob. All true. Here is a particularly good example of someone reaping what they have sowed. Being just under three, I would guess she hasn't sowed much yet.

    https://www.news24.com/News24/Farm-m...-note-20101203

    Here is some more to keep yourself busy with for a while, a little bit on the uncomfortable side, though. Be warned, it is not for sensitive souls. I am sure you won't read it, but at least you can't say you weren't told.

    https://concit.org/media-silence-on-...rican-farmers/

    Have a great day.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    7,499

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Not sure what to say about #23. Not sure how reliable the soure (ConCit) is as I've never heard of them, but that is horror story stuff. Over a thousand white farmers tortured and murdered in the most brutal ways.

    I am almost completely ignorant about current conditions in South Africa. I'd guess most of us in the U.S. are.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    ottawa, canada
    Posts
    4,009

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Sounds like South Africa is a good place to avoid.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    12,395

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by bob winter View Post
    Sounds like South Africa is a good place to avoid.
    Don't let scaremongering make you think that. South Africa is safer than most of Latin America. Some places are violent, others are not. You can walk around downtown Capetown by night and drive around most the country in a rental car, which is more than can be said for most developing countries, and out on safari it is as safe as it gets.

    It is one of the most beautiful countries in the world, and the people of all colors are wonderful and friendly.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,398

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa


  28. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    United States of Stupid
    Posts
    11,498

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    A perfect illustration of the 'victorious' oppressed becoming the things they replaced. Sometimes... in spades!! Good luck to you, and to your nascent government.
    Wait, SA replaces an oppressive government, geared for the advantage of a narrow few in the population, with a hybrid of the original crooks and bigots and those they oppressed, and they expect a functional experience? SA is still wildly corrupt, as it's always been.

    I love the implicit blaming of the "Blacks" here. Like the "whites" were paragons of egalitarianism and purity to begin with. The entire experiment was sabotaged from the get-go by powerful "Whites" who still think the "natives" are not worth the sh17 under their heel.

    I dismiss the OPs opinion out of hand.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    7,499

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Of course, that chart is 8 years old... Still scary, but it may not reflect the current reality.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    United States of Stupid
    Posts
    11,498

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Who would have thought Greenland was a sh17hole country?

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    7,499

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    Wait, SA replaces an oppressive government, geared for the advantage of a narrow few in the population, with a hybrid of the original crooks and bigots and those they oppressed, and they expect a functional experience? SA is still wildly corrupt, as it's always been.

    I love the implicit blaming of the "Blacks" here. Like the "whites" were paragons of egalitarianism and purity to begin with. The entire experiment was sabotaged from the get-go by powerful "Whites" who still think the "natives" are not worth the sh17 under their heel.

    I dismiss the OPs opinion out of hand.
    Lincoln's 2nd Inaugural Address seems relevant:

    Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword as was said three thousand years ago so still it must be said 'the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.'
    Though I would leave "God" out of it. The point: when terrible things are done to people for sustained periods of time, we should expect terrible results, and recognize our own responsibility in causing those results.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    7,499

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Canada and Europe and Australia are WAY behind in murdering people. How are you all planning to get caught up?

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Billings, Montana
    Posts
    874

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    We were in SA 15 years ago and you could see and feel the tension then. I wondered then how long before it all burns down.

    Its a shame - SA and its people are beautiful.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Gauteng, South Africa
    Posts
    483

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Not sure what to say about #23. Not sure how reliable the soure (ConCit) is as I've never heard of them, but that is horror story stuff. Over a thousand white farmers tortured and murdered in the most brutal ways.

    I am almost completely ignorant about current conditions in South Africa. I'd guess most of us in the U.S. are.

    Tom
    Absolutely right, Tom. There are many sources of information, and just reading one is fatal. Anyone can find lots of different points of view via the internet, and it is always good to verify statements. For sure white farmers are not the only ones being murdered in SA, but they are significantly targeted. The government denies that it is a phenomenon, so obviously official stats are not disclosed. Unofficially, it is arguable that there is a low level genocide going on.

    Cheers

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    United States of Stupid
    Posts
    11,498

    Default Re: Letter from South Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by devout View Post
    Absolutely right, Tom. There are many sources of information, and just reading one is fatal. Anyone can find lots of different points of view via the internet, and it is always good to verify statements. For sure white farmers are not the only ones being murdered in SA, but they are significantly targeted. The government denies that it is a phenomenon, so obviously official stats are not disclosed. Unofficially, it is arguable that there is a low level genocide going on.

    Cheers
    An eye for an eye is not an appropriate response but the original sin is still so fresh that I can't imagine that if I were in the same position of the native population, so horribly and violently oppressed by the "White Farmers" not a generation ago, I would act differently. The land was stolen, and gruesomely ruled by the Whites and they expect reconciliation? If I were a White farmer in SA, I would have cut my loses back in the day and left with my life, no matter how innocent I was. And yes, you reap what you sow.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •