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Thread: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

  1. #386
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Should be good.
    Even titebond 2 has lots of strength.
    I wanted to use it for a "temporary" joint, but it was strong enough to cause damage when I tried to remove the temporary.
    Surprised me.

  2. #387
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Ok. I will just use the titebond III then. It is just sitting on the shelf in the garage, waiting for a project. I bought it for something a while ago, cause the store was out of titebond II. I haven't wanted to use it cause it is more expensive and wanted to save it for an application like this where there is a need for a "waterproof" glue.

    Now I have to wait for the freaking weather to cool off so I can slit some boards without passing out. Hotter than two rats humping in a wool sock down here in Georgia today.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  3. #388
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Here are some pics of the leeboard. I sliced some boards into 1.5" thick strips, then cut them to 48" long. After I glued them together, I cut the bottom profile of the end of the leeboard and did some destructive testing to see how the glue was going to hold up. The glued joints never broke. it was always the wood that came apart and/or failed.

    Glued and clamped slab:
    20210801_205557.jpg

    Curved section that I cut, note where the break was in the wood and not the glue of the joint:
    20210802_220122.jpg

    You can see how tight the joints are in this pic:
    20210802_220110.jpg

    Starting to take a little shape!:
    20210802_215457.jpg
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  4. #389
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    I have been quite busy this weekend. I initially cut slits in the leeboard on the table saw, when I needed to control the depth and width pretty closely to form the foil shape. Then when it didn't matter much on the head of the leeboard that would be out of the water, I used the circular saw to speed things up. A chisel and hammer was the fastest method I could find to remove that much wood material. Then I used the belt sander to take it down until I couldn't see the saw lines anymore. I kept the width of the head at 1", and the pivot point area at the mounting brackets I necked down to 3/4". I figured I would make it thicker than what the CLC Sailrig plans called for, since the last time I used 1/2" plywood and it broke. I also re-drilled the holes in the aka so I could move the bracket out to allow for the thicker pivot point. I will probably get the leading and trailing edges taped and maybe a final fill coat on the whole thing later today or tomorrow. I used 6 inch wide 6 oz biaxial woven down the lenght of the chord from the pivot point to the foot to reinforce the leeboard from side loads, then laid 4oz over it to cover the entire board. I noticed the biaxial with the 4oz woven on top was tough as nails when I was cutting away the excess with a razor knife after the epoxy had cured. Needless to say, I think this leeboard will be waaaaaaaay more durable than my original.

    So the whole shaping process for this takes freaking forever. Does anybody know where I can get a good used CNC router for cheaps???

    Cutting slits to form the shape:
    20210806_191846.jpg

    Using hammer and chisel to remove wood
    20210806_221635.jpg

    sanded and shaped, I had a couple of knots that tore out when I chiseled the wood loose. I filled them in with wood flour and epoxy.
    20210807_115819.jpg

    fiber glass and initial epoxy coats:
    20210807_192009.jpg20210808_160417.jpg
    Last edited by Lee.007; 08-08-2021 at 03:56 PM.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  5. #390
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Ok, finally finished the leeboard. COVID crap, work, surge in Afghanistan, family commitments, all causing delays on finishing my boat modifications! Anyway, check out what I did to secure the stays. I was using stainless turnbuckles previously with some snap links. I would put the board down, clip the snap rings to the pad eyes, and tension the turn buckles. When coming into a beach or a ramp, I was frantically trying to turn the buckle to release enough tension so I could raise the leeboard while my momentum and the wind was pushing me into the ramp or beach. Well, I used to use chain binders when I was a tanker and thought something like that would work. Tension the binder when the board is down, release it within a couple of seconds and raise my leeboard. So after searching the internet for a chain binder small enough, I gave up cause they were all too big. Then I saw these toggle clamps / hatch latches, similar to hold down toggles I used to use in CNC machining fixtures when I was a manufacturing engineer. I bought them off amazon for like 14 bucks! The only draw back is they are zinc plated instead of stainless. So now, when the board is down, they are locked in with a little locking tab. When the board is up, they are released and I can use the CLC locking knob to secure the leeboard at the desired angle if I want. By the way, this leeboard is waaaay stiffer than my other one. But I aint taking any chances on it breaking or bending, been there, done that. Here are the pics. Cant wait to get back on the water. Let me know what y'all think:

    Leeboard profile:
    20210810_075241.jpg

    Leeboard in down position. Once I lock in the toggle levers, I adjust the turn buckles one time, and done:
    20210812_200044.jpg

    Down position viewed from the front, this provides a good view of the locking tabs:
    20210812_200501.jpg

    Leeboard in up position, note the red toggle handles released:
    20210812_200226.jpg
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  6. #391
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Hey Guys, long time since last post, I have been super busy lately. A couple of questions for you though:

    1. What is the best wind forecast app you guys use? What is the worst one I should stay away from? I don't mind paying for one, as long as it has good recommendations from you guys that have tried and tested it with good results. I have been using "windy" and "windfinder" together in order to improve the accuracy of the information, but they often contradict each other and are both kind of hit or miss on accuracy of the forecast.

    2. Would anybody think I would be making a violent mistake if I used my hold down clamps to secure a hinged aka? I plan to make hinges like Gary's in post # 298 above, but either my fore or aft akas will have to be totally disconnected due to the difference in aka height. So I was thinking of using hold down clamps, like I used on my leeboard, to secure the underside of the aka's and speed up assembly at the boat ramp. They are supposed to hold 2000 pounds each according to amazon.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  7. #392
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Just thinking it through logically (in my own mind anyway)

    You know or have a rough estimate on the buoyancy of each outrigger.
    Max buoyancy * distance from joint to outrigger = weight/leverage against the joint

    If you count the full weight against each beam, you give yourself a safety factor of 2ish (leverage won't be perfectly shared between the two beams, but close enough for armchair math with extra safety factors)

    All of that considered, if your connector is strong enough to hold that roughly calculated leverage, then it is good enough, if it isn't, then it will break..... :P

  8. #393
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Sailflow is the app of choice for wind forecasts.
    For the aka connections, pins or bolts. The loads can be significant.
    -Dave

  9. #394
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Thanks for the Sailflow tip Dave! I haven't heard of that one. And I am on the fence with pins, bolts, or the clamps. Like Narfi said, it really should only be about 100 pounds times the distance, which works out to about 500 pounds per hinge.

    BUT- one thing I keep worrying about is the varying forces going all around the rig, sudden instantaneous loads from wind gusts, and also turning the aka into Swiss cheese with all the bolts and making it weak. Its one thing to put a 3000 pound clamp on it, its another thing altogether if that clamp's bolts or screws get ripped out.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  10. #395
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Exactly, it's the shock loads that break things.
    -Dave

  11. #396
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Picture Time! I got out on the lake this past Saturday. The wind just really sucked. Totally died at about 18:30(6:30pm). But, I did get a little bit of sailing done, cruised the West Dam Beach Recreation Area, then headed back across the lake to the Dam Visitor Center. My new leeboard I made and the new rudder worked flawlessly. The leeboard does not have hardly any cavitation bubbles behind it. From what I read that means it suppose to be super efficient, right? Well, anyway, here are some pictures:

    Cool sunset
    20210828_195300.jpg

    New leeboard:
    20210828_183557.jpg

    I let the sail sit back from the head of the mast a bit, and also let the tack sit back from the mast a bit, makes the sail much flatter under wind:
    20210828_183538.jpg
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  12. #397
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Here is a link to my YouTube video that I took Saturday while out sailing.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  13. #398
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Looks good and works well, I like it!

    You have a handheld gps mounted?
    I was curious if there are any good phone apps for speed and tracks, I've tried the trial version of navionics, but it cut out on me one of the two times I've tried it so far... I think it really wants an internet connection, and I need something that is reliable offline. (don't get me started on crooked cell providers w/ monopolies....)

  14. #399
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    I use a garmin 72H, and I agree with the cell phone service issues. I only use my phone to record videos. I can't stand google maps, and a good topo mapping app is just too expensive. I have "topo usa 9.0" mapping software on my laptop, but I leave it at home. THe national weather service has a data recorder mounted on the dam, and it records historical data every 20 mins.

    That way I can upload my track to my laptop, plot it on the topo usa software, and I can correlate my speed and direction data points from my gps track to the data from the weather recorder on the dam. I put it into an MS Excel spreadsheet to analyze the data. It takes a little work, but I get more accurate analysis that way. Thats how I know what the wind direction and speed is, what my direction and speed is, at the same instant in time.

    From that, I can get my angle to the wind to know if I am better off pointing lower to the wind when going upwind, or bearing off a bit going downwind. I don't get it real time since I have to analyze the data after I get back home, but it works. Since I added the boom and started pulling my sail head and tack out a bit from the mast to make the sail flatter, I am gettin pretty damn close to 100% efficiency. I am averaging 97% in light winds, and 98% to 99% in heavy winds, no matter if I am heading upwind or down wind. I can go almost dead downwind bearing off about 5 to 10 deg. I am right at 45 to 50 deg from the wind when heading upwind depending on how hard the wind is blowing.

    I just about got this rig dialed in. And the new rudder and leeboard make the boat sail so much smoother. I think my old rudder was flexing way too much, causing me to make constant adjustments to my heading. Same for the leeboard. Sometimes I could actually see my boat slipping sideways in the water. All that is gone now. Makes me want to build another rig and "design in" all my lessons learned. I think I am almost ready to sneak over to the sailing club on the lake and challenge one of their racers!
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  15. #400
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    The progress as a sailor and builder / designer is really impressive.
    Not many threads show anywhere near the improvement shown here.
    Even more impressive are the comments by people I respect like Todd Bradshaw (#365).

    I think you are ready for a more capable boat overall. Of course, enjoying this one is probably good.

  16. #401
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Thanks, upchurchmr, I guess I'll take that as a compliment! I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but sometimes I do get lucky and come up with something smart. I figure as long as he lives a decent life, even a blind squirrel will find a nut every once in a while.

    Maybe someday when I retire and grow up, I might be able to make a little cash building boats. But knowing me, I will want to keep them all!

    So new question to all who do hinges on their akas. How heavy a hinge plate is heavy enough? I decided to use 1/16" thick mending plates I found cheaply at home depot. They have holes already pre-drilled in them at a perfect bolt pattern to fit around, and through, the akas. The holes are approx 0.16" diameter, perfect for a #8-32 x 2" stainless hex bolt and nylock nut.

    I tried to find the double shear equation in my copy of "Mark's Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers 10th edition" (from my time as an electro-mechanical designer), but it has been a while and I forgot where it was. But according to some calculators I found on the inner-webs, the double shear strength is more than 12,000 pounds. Some say shear strength is 60% of tensile strength, but double shear will give you a ton more. Given that there are two bolts that will take this load, I think the freaking laminated wooden aka is going to shatter long before the steel plate and 8-32 bolts will. So I am going to use them and see how it goes.

    Getting the freaking bolt hole pattern to line up from one side of the aka to the other is a real pain in the 3-point contact. I drilled it on a press, still came out off center one side to the other. I drilled it by hand, and got closer, but still off center. I figure I will just drill the holes slightly oversized and let the slop take up the mismatch, and then fill the slopped out holes with thickened epoxy. I wonder if that is what Gary meant in his posts above about epoxying his bolts in. I thought of making a c-clamp shaped drill jig to pin one side of the plates, and drill from the other side to hold the alignment, but I don't have that kind of precision machinery to make that kind of a tool. Anyhow, I will post some pics when I get the hinges done.
    Last edited by Lee.007; 09-01-2021 at 09:52 PM.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  17. #402
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.


  18. #403
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Thanks for the pic Gary,, that clears up my confusion on how you had your bolts in there. So I agree that will make the screws stronger than just being screwed into the wood, especially if you use lag screws, but I was wanting to go all the way through and put nuts on the end of the bolt. If this method without through bolts has worked for you, I just might give it a try. But my bolts are #8 and I thing yours were 1/4", right? Does that make a difference? I guess a bigger bolt would be a stronger epoxy joint because in the hole that would give the epoxy more surface area to lock into. And trying to drill a hole through and hit the plate in the right spot on the other side really sucks. But, if I just drill the holes over size so I can get the bolts to line up, and use through bolts, and fill in the gaps with epoxy, now I have the best of both worlds!

    By the way, I forgot to post that I did another end pour in my stern. I found a small spot where the drill kissed through to the rear compartment when I was drilling holes for the rudder gudgeons. When I did the endpour, some very small amounts of epoxy leaked out from the inside and sealed all the cracks and holes. Its solid as a rock now. Gudgeons and bolts are now locked in place with epoxy. And there is about 3 more inches of epoxy filling the stern so when I need to bolt more stuff to it there is plenty of room to drill into the epoxy without getting into the rear compartment. The next time I build a boat I will put plenty of epoxy in the stern and bow.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  19. #404
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    https://www.westsystem.com/instructi...ners-hardware/

    Several big boat projects have convinced me that in many cases the bonded fasteners are stronger than through bolting.

  20. #405
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    And its Gary for the win again! Thanks a ton for that link Gary. I am definitely saving that one in my book marks and I am going to have to do that on the rest of my plates. But for the ones that I have already drilled through, I am just going to oversize the holes, wet out the holes with epoxy, and then insert the through bolts in the epoxy and let it dry. Now that I am thinking about it, I think I will just over size the holes about 3/4 deep, insert a larger screw, like a 1/4" lag bolt or something, and let the epoxy set up. Then flip it over after the epoxy has cured, drill into the epoxy that has cured in the through holes, over sized it 3/4 of the length deep, insert a larger screw, and fill in epoxy around it. Sound like a winning plan? I reckon it might work. But... no plan ever survives first contact with the enemy...

    I will let y'all know how it goes.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  21. #406
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    So here are some pics of the hinge progress. I seriously underestimated how long this was going to take. Probably taking so long cause I am too much of a perfectionist.

    I got some epoxy syringes at Hobby Lobby. Pretty cool actually, I used the thick viscosity ones and squirted epoxy thickened with fumed silica down in the holes that I had drilled through, after i wetted them out with thin epoxy and a cue-tip with the puff ball mostly removed. Here is the syringe:
    20210909_201552.jpg

    I am using zinc coated metal mending plates, a little over 1/16th of an inch thick. I have #8 bolts holding them in alignment, and also for hinge pins, and #12 sheet metal screws to attache them to the wooden akas configured like this(sorry, i forgot to put the #12 screws in for the picture):
    20210909_201346.jpg20210909_201341.jpg

    This shows how i got the one outer plate spaced out to clear the inner plates of the hinge:
    20210909_200940.jpg

    Once I got everything lined up on the aka, epoxy squirted in the holes, screws tightened down as much as I could, I put clamps on top of the screws to be sure they were seated down in the holes good. Some of them stripped out the holes when I screwed them in, so I wanted to be sure they were seated before the epoxy cured. Cant wait to see how it looks tomorrow! I will post pics without the clamps tomorrow.
    20210909_200850.jpg
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  22. #407
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Here is what she looked like this morning:

    20210910_074516.jpg20210910_074516.jpg
    20210910_074503.jpg
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  23. #408
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Lee, that looks good.

    BUT - you need to replace the two hinge pins with something with a solid shank.
    Screws which have the threads in contact with side plates will instantly cut the side plates increasing the diameter of the holes.
    This weakens the plates, and puts more load on the plates because the load is concentrated where the thread tips hit the plate.
    If you can find a bolt which is just slightly larger diameter, and has threads that start after the shank exits the plate you will have the best strength and longevity.
    You probably will need washers to allow the nuts to tighten down, if the threads start farther outside the plate.
    It might be desirable to use a die to make the threads as close to the plate as reasonable.

    This is really important. Normally the hinge pins would be bigger than the attaching screws. This is because you have more attaching screws, so the total capability is higher than the hinge pins (2 pins vs 4 attachment screws).

    It would probably work for a little while, how long? Or for light wind sailing. But you now know you don't accurately predict wind strength, even during one sail.

  24. #409
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    Lee, that looks good.

    BUT - you need to replace the two hinge pins with something with a solid shank.
    Yup, I intend to replace them with something better than nuts and bolts. These were primarily just to hold it all together for assembly and keeping it straight for the epoxy curing. I don't like using threads as bearing surfaces, and I want something that is faster to connect/disconnect than nuts and bolts when I am at the boat ramp. I am currently trying to research a quick release locking pin similar to a lynch pin, that is small enough diameter. I don't want to go as big as 1/4", so I am looking at 3/16" ( ~0.187") diameter. If I have to go up to 1/4" it will probably mean new plates since the holes are so close to the edges of the current plates. Maybe I can find some on amazon or elsewhere on the interwebs, but so far most of what I have found are all 1/4" as the smallest diameter.

    After I looked at it this morning, I think I may want to fill in between the plates on top of the akas with some woodflour thickened epoxy to make it a solid smooth finish and keep me from cutting my hands when I have to jump in the water to make adjustments and then get myself back in the boat. I guess the perfectionist in me would argue that the boat should be set up right so you don't have to get in the water. But the realist in me says it is going to happen sooner or later. And its always nice to go for a swim when it is 98deg F on the water.!

    Oh yeah, I took a screw driver and gave a little test against the screws. All but one were rock solid. I think there is still a little bit of curing left for the epoxy. I will give it a full 24 hours at least before I put any force against it.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  25. #410
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    That looks pretty legit, I like it!

    Don't forget to seal the end grain on the beams. (out of sight out of mind... I know how that goes)

  26. #411
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    The minimum standard distance for edge distance is 3x the fastener size. In metal of course.
    Meaning from the center of the pin hole - at least 3x the diameter of the pin to the edge of the plate.
    That generally makes the tearout from the hole to the edge as strong as shearing the pin.
    Bigger edge distance (ED) is better (safer) of course.

    It would be lighter to add some solid wood to fill in the gap between the plates at the top rather than filled epoxy.

  27. #412
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    The minimum standard distance for edge distance is 3x the fastener size.
    Well, that rules out any of the 1/4" pins. In fact, I am way off on that right now. From the center of the hole it is about 0.3". Diameter of a #8 screw is about .160". Soooo... I guess I will just use it until it breaks, then make bigger ones next time. Cause it would be a real p.i.t.a. to take it apart and dig the screws out now. It is locked in tighter than a catfish' gills with the epoxy.

    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    It would be lighter to add some solid wood to fill in the gap between the plates at the top rather than filled epoxy.
    Yeah and it would definitely look a lot better too! I think I will make some solid wood fills out of cedar and cover it with epoxy. Then I could use a side grinder/sander to make sure the wood and metal are even and level, make everything nice and flush and smooth. Thanks for the tip upchurchmr.

    So here is the final result. Kind of reminds me of a bull's horns. Any Texas Longhorn fans out there? Being from Tennessee, I am a Volunteer fan myself. But if I wasn't, I would certainly sympathize with Texas:
    20210911_215816.jpg
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  28. #413
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    How did you know I was a Longhorn. But not real die-hard.

    If you can replace those #8's with solid shank fasteners it would improve your odds a lots.

  29. #414
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    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Well, I didn't know. But I figured somebody on here was. As many people as there are on here, I figured surely somebody was a Longhorn.

    So I did replace the #8's with some solid shanks... but not fasteners. I used spring pins, some people call them roll pins, for the pivot point up top. I used 3/16" diameter hitch pins for the bottom. I drilled the holes up to 0.187"(3/16"), and that still left me quite of bit of metal between the hole and the edge. Then I tapped some 3/16" x 2" spring pins in there. Worked like a charm. and pretty solid too. I did some preliminary strength testing with my weight, 195#, on the aka. didn't even budge. My original plan was to use 3/16" hitch pins (the pin that holds your hitch pin in the 2"receiver), on the top and bottom, but when I bent the hing up it wanted to scissor the other half of the pin. So while I was at Lowes looking in the "hard to find" bins just to see if they had some sort of pins I could use, I found they had some 3/16" spring pins. What luck? Oh, and they are just the right diameter to take a 4-40 screw down the center if I need to in order to keep them from working out. I am going to use them and see how they do. If they stay in place, I will just use them till they get so rusted they cant be used. I might go to Fastenal here in town and get some stainless ones. If they start working out of the hinge, I will order some 4-40 screws, slide them down the center of the spring pins, put a nylock nut on, and then a washer on both ends, maybe some epoxy on the threads for good measure, and let her roll. Oh, and the hitch pins are super tight too. I almost had to use a hammer to get it to spring open enough to fit over the hinge plates. So it will definitely lock in good and tight under sail.

    Now, there is a little binding, which I new was going to happen since the fore hinge is about 2" higher than the aft hinge So I plan to just take the bolts and wing nuts in the foreward bulkhead of the ama's loose, strap it to the aka a little bit off center, then re-bolt it when I get to the lake. Else I would have to take the hinges loose, and I think that would be more cumbersome to put back together than the ama / aka bolts and wing nuts while everyone at the boat ramp is waiting on me. The aft (stern) bolts I am going to lock down with some nylock nuts. No need to have to take them apart anymore.

    All in all I am pretty pleased. I have definitely learned a ton building this project, and I think other than solid fills in between the hinge plates, and some arms to hold the aka's still during transportation, I am pretty much done. I have learned a ton from this build, and next time I will have plenty of lessons learned that I can design into the project, as opposed to fixing problems as I go. Time to stop building and get on the freaking water! If my herniated disc will handle it that is. I need to get some new spinal intervertebrael discs. Too many years of carrying ruck sacks, jumping off tanks, and slamming 44 pound sabots in the breech every 3 to 4 seconds. Reckon Lowes has any vertebrael discs in the "hard to find" bins?

    Here are the pics, let me know what y'all think!:

    The Misty Sunrise with her arms folded:

    20210912_182002.jpg

    Here you can see the offset that causes the binding, so I am just going to strap the ama down to the aka as it is. Viewing it from this angle, makes me think the only reason for the binding is the foreward tilt of the aka due to the slope of the foredeck:

    20210912_182029.jpg

    In these two pics you can see the spring pins up top for the pivot point, and the quick release hitch pins on the bottom to lock it down:

    20210912_171815.jpg
    20210912_171808.jpg
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  30. #415
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Posts
    2,459

    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Looks good.
    As you said, you will need something to stop the ama's from bouncing up and down while on the trailer.
    Another thing, with the ama's up in the air (somewhat) if you get a side wind it will try to roll the boat on the trailer.
    You need to brace from the trailer frame to the aka's as best you can.

    I had a cat which was 10' wide so it was towed with it hiked up at a 45 degree angle, to make the trailer/ boat road legal.
    One day a storm came thru as I was towing back home.
    The wind shoved the boat/ trailer sideways until it was about 30 degrees to my right. I couldn't see the trailer at all since it was riding over the edge of the road.
    The tires must have been grinding tread off at a very accelerated rate.
    Unfortunately I was approaching a bridge and the boat would have hit it about 1/2 way back.
    Luckily the wind let up, the boat went back to straight and we cleared the bridge.
    Then I had to check my pants.
    Someone was looking out for me.

    Your setup won't have as much windage, but the wind can have powerful effects.
    Just be careful.

  31. #416
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Posts
    2,459

    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    I have an 18' kayak based off of Laughing Loon's Biadarka.
    Modified of course so don't blame them.

    I wonder......
    But I have been wondering a long time.
    Seeing success might push me along. Maybe.

  32. #417
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Evans, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    253

    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    I say go for it. If you use marine plywood your assembly time will super fast. Mine was slower cause I did cedar strip panels. I would do it again, but I think I would use wider strips to make it go faster.

    I gotta say I am pretty impressed with the way this has turned out overall. About the only thing I want to do now sooner rather than later, is get a better seat configuration. Since it really is a trimaran sail boat now instead of a kayak, I am going to rig up a permanent seat on the rear aka to keep my back from freaking out everytime I go for a sail. When the wind gets up to 5~6mph I spend more time out on the akas for counterbalance than I do in the cockpit. Other than that, I am going to stop building and take advantage of the cool(finally) fall weather and see how fast I can get this baby to go!
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  33. #418
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Posts
    2,459

    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    I dislike plywood boats.
    Strip plank for me.
    The kayak has been done a long time.
    I have various rigs.
    Amas and akas are the biggest undone things.
    Except for rudder and centerboard and assembly.

    Biggest problem is me and other undone projects.

    I want to see more of your sailing.

  34. #419
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Evans, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    253

    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Well, I was going to get out on the water today, but my jeep blew the water pump and spilled its guts on the way to work yesterday morning, so I spent the entire day replacing a water pump. If I don't have to work next weekend, maybe I can get out there, or maybe one day this week if the weather is right. I am really itching to try my new hinges. I need to make some supports for the akas during transport though. I might do that tomorrow.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  35. #420
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Evans, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    253

    Default Re: Newbie needs help with small DIY sail plan, trimaran setup.

    Oh yeah, I gotta get me a better seat mounted too. I am probably going to figure out how to rig up a mount for one of the stadium seats you can get at sporting good stores that have a nice seat back. I got one from Academy that really does a good job of supporting my back on the bleachers. Maybe just some side rails epoxied to the kayak deck, and then set the seat on top of that, and bolt it down to the rails.

    Another thing - Now that I have the hinges on there, how do you guys suggest I go about making the akas permanently mounted to the kayak? Or should I make it permanent? I was thinking about reinforcing it with some bracing on the inside, epoxy the "nest" to the top of the kayak deck, and then screw through the nest to the brace on the under side of the deck. Would I still need the lashings you think? How have you guys done this or something like this in the past?
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

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