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Thread: Brandishing Firearms

  1. #176
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    Default Re: Brandishing Firearms

    Bob is quite right about being all about Education and being able to get medical and mental help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CK 17 View Post
    Bob, this is just as much a gun trafficking issue as it is an economic issue. West Chicago’s gun problem is do to its proximity to Indiana, Iowa and Wisconsin.
    But Lake Forest is not? What's the distance, 20 miles?

    Hollywood, Brentwood, versus other parts of the greater Los Angeles area?

    The Hamptons versus NYC?
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

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    Default Re: Brandishing Firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    I doubt polls about gun ownership are reliable. There is a downside to disclosure of ownership or concealed carry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Evidence, please? They may not be - but I doubt that they've gotten any less reliable over time, and a long-term trend should be discenable.
    https://www.cnn.com/2012/12/25/us/ne...map/index.html

    Newspaper sparks outrage for publishing names, addresses of gun permit holders

    By KC Maas and Josh Levs, CNN
    Updated 10:23 AM ET, Thu December 27, 2012

    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”― Mark Twain,


  4. #179
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    Default Re: Brandishing Firearms

    How are they going to form a militia if they don't know where the guns are?

  5. #180
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    Default Re: Brandishing Firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Newspaper sparks outrage for publishing names, addresses of gun permit holders
    OK? One story in a local paper covering two counties in NY state in 2012? What is this supposed to signify?

    National polls are as anonymous as anything in this world. I don't know what your problem is with the data showing a long-term trend over the past 50 years toward a smaller percentage of households owning guns, nor why you'd want to discredit it. But as far as I can tell, there's no evidence that the data is particularly unreliable. Are gun owners particularly inclined to lie on an anonymous survey? Are they more inclined to lie in 2020 than in 1980? How do you know that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    A good question. As I have tried to state, because by not banning guns, it forces the issues on the root causes of violence, which are all of the other things that Democrats (SHOULD) want, things that vastly improve quality of life and standard of living.
    No, guns are certainly not the 'root cause' of violence. Human beings have been violent since long before guns were invented, long before we were human, in fact, and much more so in previous times. But a gun is a tool, carefully designed to quickly and easily put drippy red holes in living bodies and make them no longer living. Having lots of guns around tends to make the results of violence worse, because those who want to do harm have more efficient tools. Although it certainly can be done, it's far harder and slower to kill someone with a machete or a screwdriver or your bare hands. That is the entire point of guns, to make killing easier and more efficient.

    All of the things you suggest to reduce violence are excellent ideas. Reducing the availability of guns, however, also can reduce the damage done by violent people by taking away an efficient tool. But you may very well be right that other strategies are more expedient - and perhaps even more effective.

    OTOH, you still haven't addressed my point about political strategy. I'm suggesting that almost all those who vote largely on the issue of gun control are not persuadable voters, but part of the hard-core conservative 'base'. I suggest that the Democrats will neither get their votes nor convince them to not vote whatever they do, and that more restrictive gun policy proposals will likely not lose votes.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 08-04-2020 at 08:00 AM.
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  6. #181
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    Default Re: Brandishing Firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    OTOH, you still haven't addressed my point about political strategy. I'm suggesting that almost all those who vote largely on the issue of gun control are not persuadable voters, but part of the hard-core conservative 'base'. I suggest that the Democrats will neither get their votes nor convince them to not vote whatever they do, and that more restrictive gun policy proposals will likely not lose votes.
    Yep.



    Jeff C

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    National polls are as anonymous as anything in this world. I don't know what your problem is with the data showing a long-term trend over the past 50 years toward a smaller percentage of households owning guns, nor why you'd want to discredit it. But as far as I can tell, there's no evidence that the data is particularly unreliable. Are gun owners particularly inclined to lie on an anonymous survey? Are they more inclined to lie in 2020 than in 1980? How do you know that?.
    not just lie about personal gun ownership, lie about their experience with guns.

    the progun cult is one of the most prominent examples of an almost religious belief in secular life.

  8. #183
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    Default Re: Brandishing Firearms

    Keith Wilson #180

    "OTOH, you still haven't addressed my point about political strategy. I'm suggesting that almost all those who vote largely on the issue of gun control are not persuadable voters, but part of the hard-core conservative 'base'. I suggest that the Democrats will neither get their votes nor convince them to not vote whatever they do, and that more restrictive gun policy proposals will likely not lose votes."
    I do agree with this Keith. They are, by definition, not Dem. voters.

  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    OK? One story in a local paper covering two counties in NY state in 2012? What is this supposed to signify?

    National polls are as anonymous as anything in this world. I don't know what your problem is with the data showing a long-term trend over the past 50 years toward a smaller percentage of households owning guns, nor why you'd want to discredit it. But as far as I can tell, there's no evidence that the data is particularly unreliable. Are gun owners particularly inclined to lie on an anonymous survey? Are they more inclined to lie in 2020 than in 1980? How do you know that?

    No, guns are certainly not the 'root cause' of violence. Human beings have been violent since long before guns were invented, long before we were human, in fact, and much more so in previous times. But a gun is a tool, carefully designed to quickly and easily put drippy red holes in living bodies and make them no longer living. Having lots of guns around tends to make the results of violence worse, because those who want to do harm have more efficient tools. Although it certainly can be done, it's far harder and slower to kill someone with a machete or a screwdriver or your bare hands. That is the entire point of guns, to make killing easier and more efficient.

    All of the things you suggest to reduce violence are excellent ideas. Reducing the availability of guns, however, also can reduce the damage done by violent people by taking away an efficient tool. But you may very well be right that other strategies are more expedient - and perhaps even more effective.

    OTOH, you still haven't addressed my point about political strategy. I'm suggesting that almost all those who vote largely on the issue of gun control are not persuadable voters, but part of the hard-core conservative 'base'. I suggest that the Democrats will neither get their votes nor convince them to not vote whatever they do, and that more restrictive gun policy proposals will likely not lose votes.
    The point I was and am trying to make is:
    - It's not about the guns.
    - It's about how effective Biden will be at all of the other changes necessary in our society. Instead of just banning guns, Biden could use the issue of gun violence to address all the root causes of violence, which would help massively on the OTHER problems, which are huge right now. It's a golden opportunity to renew the liberal agenda.
    - If all Biden is able to do is pass gun control and then get shut down on everything else, the republicans will say quietly to themselves, "Haha, suckers!", and then win in 2024 because a) banning guns energized their base and b) Biden was ineffective at reversing the downward spiral on everything else that I detailed pages back.

    George W. Bush walked us right into the great recession of 2008. Obama wins. Does Obama (who I voted for) use that mandate to make the big changes needed? No. He hires and listens to the Goldman-Sachs bunch and bunts instead of swinging for the fences. Zero prosecutions of the big banks for fraud. *I* could have explained the rationale for a socialized health care system better than Obama did. Kept folks imprisoned without trial at Guantanamo bay, now going on 20 years.

    Are you feeling lucky, Keith? Do you want real change, across the board, or another bunt? Education. Domestic jobs. Medical and mental health care. Higher taxes on the wealthy. Better election rules, including mail balloting and laws to prevent gerrymandering. Open internet. Not raiding social security. Enforcing environmental laws.

    Or a gun ban. "Haha, suckers!" Gun bans are cheap, cost nothing to government. Don't need to raise any taxes on the rich to fund education and medical care.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  10. #185
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    Anyone fancy a crack at defining these mysterious Root Causes?
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

  11. #186
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    Default Re: Brandishing Firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    Anyone fancy a crack at defining these mysterious Root Causes?
    Arguing about "root causes" is displacement activity.
    Even in the best-educated, most socially equal society there will always be crime, criminals, domestic abuse, political nutcases.
    So the only way to reduce death by gun is to remove all but the small magazine, non-automatic long guns for sport, be that gun range, or hunting.
    Allowing sporting guns, with secure storage requirements should comply with that perverse SCOTUS ruling, but removing guns designed and purchased solely for putting holes in US citizens severely reduces the risk of death, and should make the life of the police officers a damn sight less stressful.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  12. #187
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    I love all the people using "varmints" as an excuse to own big guns.

    Down here there are real predators, that can kill full-grown steers. Same in Africa. Actual ranchers with wildlife problems tend to use poison bait (very cruel - not endorsing it), which is far more effective. Never heard of a rancher who needs assault weapons to deal with a problem predator.

    Then again you could be like out neighbor, and accept the calves killed by jaguars as the cost of doing business.

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    Default Re: Brandishing Firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    not just lie about personal gun ownership, lie about their experience with guns.

    the progun cult is one of the most prominent examples of an almost religious belief in secular life.
    The US has more versions of Christianity than any other country...probably the entire planet. There's probably even a version that would prefer to wear miniature AR15s than a cross.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

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    Default Re: Brandishing Firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Arguing about "root causes" is displacement activity.
    Even in the best-educated, most socially equal society there will always be crime, criminals, domestic abuse, political nutcases.
    So the only way to reduce death by gun is to remove all but the small magazine, non-automatic long guns for sport, be that gun range, or hunting.
    Allowing sporting guns, with secure storage requirements should comply with that perverse SCOTUS ruling, but removing guns designed and purchased solely for putting holes in US citizens severely reduces the risk of death, and should make the life of the police officers a damn sight less stressful.
    Sure, there will always be some "root causes", but that doesn't mean that addressing those causes cannot be effective at reducing gun violence. From what I can recollect from uni days, there is little doubt that root causes such as inequality DO affect violence by guns and without them.

    And stats from down here in OZ appear to show that there ARE ways to reduce death by gun apart from removing certain guns. There are some interesting stats that show what has really worked here, for example, is that you have to hand in your license if you are subject to a domestic violence allegation.

    Yes, reducing automatics etc may also reduce gun deaths, and here in Australia we had a very widely supported ban on many types of weapon. But Bob's points can appear to be pretty good ones, judging from the studies I've done on this subject in the past.

    BTW I could easily get a license for rifles because I live in the country; I grew up with a bunch of them in the house; I've had to investigate gun deaths and injuries for work; and I have zero desire to own one. So I'm not ignorant about guns, but NOT a fan of them at all.
    Last edited by Chris249; 08-05-2020 at 07:22 AM.

  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    Sure, there will always be some "root causes", but that doesn't mean that addressing those causes cannot be effective at reducing gun violence. From what I can recollect from uni days, there is little doubt that root causes such as inequality DO affect violence by guns and without them.
    That would be a good thing to do, as they will make everyone's life better and be good for the economy, but . . .The trouble with that is that it might take two generations, 60 years, to have much effect on the numbers of people killing themselfs and others..

    And stats from down here in OZ appear to show that there ARE ways to reduce death by gun apart from removing certain guns. There are some interesting stats that show what has really worked here, for example, is that you have to hand in your license if you are subject to a domestic violence allegation.
    An excellent idea, but small beer when you look at all of the US killings.

    Yes, reducing automatics etc may also reduce gun deaths, and here in Australia we had a very widely supported ban on many types of weapon. But Bob's points can appear to be pretty good ones, judging from the studies I've done on this subject in the past.
    Semi/automatics are not the biggest problem. Yes, they make the news as they facilitate killing large numbers of US citizens in a short space of time, but I included all guns marketed and purchased to put holes in US citizens, which includes short-barreled handguns like the one that idiot lawyer was waving about in front of her house.

    BTW I could easily get a license for rifles; I grew up with a bunch of them in the house; and I have zero desire to own one. So I'm not ignorant about guns, but NOT a fan of them at all.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  16. #191
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    Default Re: Brandishing Firearms

    Still no description or definition of. Root Cause

    Magic distraction phrase?
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

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    Default Re: Brandishing Firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    I love all the people using "varmints" as an excuse to own big guns.

    Down here there are real predators, that can kill full-grown steers. Same in Africa. Actual ranchers with wildlife problems tend to use poison bait (very cruel - not endorsing it), which is far more effective. Never heard of a rancher who needs assault weapons to deal with a problem predator.

    Then again you could be like out neighbor, and accept the calves killed by jaguars as the cost of doing business.
    Two good points. Thanks.

    More on the second point -- human hubris has always been strong here in the U.S. The notion that we can 'conquer nature' is a fallacy that carries thru to this day. But the fact is... for every change we make, nature adjusts. For every 'Corps of Engineers' type solution... we create other problems. Then we fix those secondary problems... which results in tertiary problems arising. It's all turtles... all the way down. Eventually, the 'solutions' get so expensive that we give up... leaving a bit of a muddled mess. And nature adjusts again. As we go off 'conquering' some other aspect of nature. With seldom a thought as to how nature will adjust to adjust. To the longer-term consequences. Just fix the immediate problem. And the end result is Koyaanisqatsi. Which impacts us not only in economics ways we don't attempt to fathom... it also impacts us in psychologcial and spiritual ways that we tend to ignore. Because they can't be measured in numbers of returning salmon, or stream flow & turbidity, or panther populations.
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    Default Re: Brandishing Firearms

    Our research points to the supposition that jaguars and pumas rarely become problems for ranchers, except:

    - when it is an animal that was driven out of its territory by fire, deforestation, etc., and can't find a new foraging territory;

    - when people hunt out their natural prey. This is more common exactly in those areas where rural people all have guns and like to use them.

    Both are our fault and can be avoided. Killing the few remaining top predators in the world is a copout.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Our research points to the supposition that jaguars and pumas rarely become problems for ranchers, except:

    - when it is an animal that was driven out of its territory by fire, deforestation, etc., and can't find a new foraging territory;

    - when people hunt out their natural prey. This is more common exactly in those areas where rural people all have guns and like to use them.

    Both are our fault and can be avoided. Killing the few remaining top predators in the world is a copout.
    predator research in the US is controversial because science can show that hunting mountain lions increases human mountain lion conflicts, and wise rural politicians and rural people already know the answers and don’t like this,

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    Default Re: Brandishing Firearms

    The only gun I have any urge to own, the pepperball guns used for self defence. I could not live with myself if I accidentally or intentionally took a life, but covering somebody with a cloud of pepper works just as well for getting myself and my loved ones out of harms way. Human or animal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    predator research in the US is controversial because science can show that hunting mountain lions increases human mountain lion conflicts, and wise rural politicians and rural people already know the answers and don’t like this,
    People who live in 'interaction zones' subscribe to the notion that letting big predators - esp. cougars - get comfortable with human contact leads to problems. That keeping them wary, thru hunting, is a good thing.

    Until I see more evidence to the contrary, I also subscribe to that understanding.

    OTOH, I decry the employment of packs of dogs to tree big cats (even the problem cats, except in extremis) that are then easily dispatched by even to sloppiest of marksmen. Or helicopters. We want them to be wary of people. Not whirlybirds or packs of dogs. Plus, those two unsportsmanlike approaches 'stick in my craw'. The same effect can be achieved without them.

    And I do subscribe to George's neighbor's notion that a certain amount of 'shrinkage' due to predation SHOULD be regarded as a cost of doing business. Though I don't have a large objection if the industry, in the aggregate, decides that the costs would be lower if they hire a hitman to take out 'problem' animals. But only when the losses justify the cost. And not paid for by the taxpayers. By the industry - through an association, or individually.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    People who live in 'interaction zones' subscribe to the notion that letting big predators - esp. cougars - get comfortable with human contact leads to problems. That keeping them wary, thru hunting, is a good thing.

    Until I see more evidence to the contrary, I also subscribe to that understanding.

    I lived for years in an “interaction zone”. Your theory is wannabe redneck crap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    The only gun I have any urge to own, the pepperball guns used for self defence. I could not live with myself if I accidentally or intentionally took a life, but covering somebody with a cloud of pepper works just as well for getting myself and my loved ones out of harms way. Human or animal.

    I like your sentiment here, but it may not prevent anything, especially if you face more than one attacker. And if your attacker is armed, he/she may think it is a real gun and attempt to draw and fire first. It's not that I think pepper ball guns are bad, like everything, there are risks and rewards. Your reward is that you know you have not severely harmed another person or animal. The risk is that you have only angered them more. Even with a firearm, hitting your attacker(s) does not guarantee that the attack has ended . Ask any police officer from a city and they can tell you of more than one case where they (or a brother) hit the attacker more than once and they kept on coming.

    You may already know this, but whether it is a pepper ball gun or a real gun, hitting your target is a lot harder than it seems - especially in a high stress situation. Police who train often, demonstrate proficiency, and are routinely in high stress situations only hit their target about 60% of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    I lived for years in an “interaction zone”. Your theory is wannabe redneck crap.
    I didn't say, 'until someone comes along with a snotty attitude and an anecdote'. I said evidence. Got any to discuss?
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    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    I didn't say, 'until someone comes along with a snotty attitude and an anecdote'. I said evidence. Got any to discuss?
    I presented evidence when describing scientific study. You presented anecdote.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    I presented evidence when describing scientific study. You presented anecdote.
    Perhaps I owe you an apology then. What post(s) describing scientific study are you referring to?
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    Let me add to my previous comments with regard to the upcoming election, not specific to guns:

    Not addressing the root cause of ANY problem, damages one's credibility for addressing ALL problems. Doing so causes one to be perceived as a politician shooting from the hip, instead of a real problem solver. - Me
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    Still no description or definition of. Root Cause

    Magic distraction phrase?
    Root cause means you can turn the problem off OR ON at will. As applied to this problem, it means that a government ban on guns immediately solves the problem, AND, having those same guns in other societies means FOR CERTAIN that they will experience the same problems of violence.

    Reprint of my previous post:

    A good question. As I have tried to state, because by not banning guns, it forces the issues on the root causes of violence, which are all of the other things that democrats (SHOULD) want, things that vastly improve quality of life and standard of living.

    There are countries in Europe that have low rates gun ownership and low rates of gun violence. Liberals (my friends) say it's because of no firearms.

    There are countries in Europe that have HIGH rates of gun ownership AND low rates of gun violence. Conservatives say it's because of firearms, deterrence.

    But anyone worth their salt in root cause analysis will immediately see that both advocates are wrong. For both of those cases to exist, it's impossible for guns to be the root cause. What is the root cause for two different countries, disparate gun ownership, but both having low gun violence?

    It's because they are LESS VIOLENT. Low gun violence, stabbings, road rage, bullying, spousal abuse. LESS. VIOLENT.

    And why? More similarities;
    - Good education, free or low cost.
    - Good medical care, free or low cost.
    - Good mental health care with protections of confidentiality.
    - Good jobs and protection of domestic industries.
    - Uncorrupt and responsive government.
    - Good social safety network.
    - High taxes, but a good return on that money to the citizens.

    You don't even need to go overseas to look at examples, or even different states. What's the level of violence in tony north Chicago enclave of Lake Forest? LOW. What about the west Chicago neighborhoods like Oak Park and Cicero? HIGH. Complete opposites under the same state and federal laws. And what is the difference? Lake Forest is wealthy and all that accompanies it. West Chicago areas like Oak Park and Cicero are poor and all that accompanies it.

    Hollywood and nearby areas versus other parts of Los Angeles?

    Do you want to ban guns? Or do you want to force the government to address the root causes of ALL VIOLENCE?

    Look around you at our country, right now. Separate from the gun issue, how is our country doing? Is banning guns going to solve those issues? Will addressing the root causes of all violence address those issues? Make your choice. Our country, as a whole, is in steep decline. Is banning guns going to reverse that? No. Will addressing the root causes of all violence address that? YES, because solving those root causes also makes people better educated, better standard of living, better fed, better housed, better employed, physically and emotionally healthier, happier, and will vastly raise the gross national product, so they can pay more taxes to fund those things and to solve our financial woes.
    Will banning alcohol solve alcoholism?

    Will banning illegal drugs solve substance abuse?

    Will banning abortions solve unwanted pregnancies?

    Will penalizing people for lack of education cause more people to become better educated, by their own efforts?

    Will penalizing people for lack of medical insurance cause more people to have better medical care, by their own efforts?

    Will incarcerating individuals for decades or a lifetime for violent crimes cause other people to be less likely to commit violent crimes, because they have so rationally made that choice?

    I DON'T mean do nothing about those problems. I mean that those measures above are ineffective compared to addressing the root causes in all cases (which costs money up front, but saves money in the long term).
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    Root cause means you can turn the problem off OR ON at will. As applied to this problem, it means that a government ban on guns immediately solves the problem, AND, having those same guns in other societies means FOR CERTAIN that they will experience the same problems of violence.

    Reprint of my previous post:



    Will banning alcohol solve alcoholism?

    Will banning illegal drugs solve substance abuse?

    Will banning abortions solve unwanted pregnancies?

    Will penalizing people for lack of education cause more people to become better educated, by their own efforts?

    Will penalizing people for lack of medical insurance cause more people to have better medical care, by their own efforts?

    Will incarcerating individuals for decades or a lifetime for violent crimes cause other people to be less likely to commit violent crimes, because they have so rationally made that choice?

    I DON'T mean do nothing about those problems. I mean that those measures above are ineffective compared to addressing the root causes in all cases (which costs money up front, but saves money in the long term).
    When you act like there’s some magical root cause analysis that’ll solve human problems, you come across as an ineffective shooting from the hip and that leads to such ineffectual idiocy as “abstinence only” sex Ed.

  30. #205
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    Default Re: Brandishing Firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    When you act like there’s some magical root cause analysis that’ll solve human problems, you come across as an ineffective shooting from the hip and that leads to such ineffectual idiocy as “abstinence only” sex Ed.
    You picked the wrong root cause of unwanted pregnancies. Ask Bristol Palin how that "abstinence only" education is working for her.

    Root Cause Analysis comes from NASA. NASA has had failures, but almost always when they deviate from their own playbook. When they follow their own playbook, they are immensely successful at solving immense and seemingly unsolvable and immensely complex problems. NASAs techniques have been applied across all industries (and those companies that did not, usually did not survive).

    Humans are not as predictable as engineering, however to say that science cannot be applied means you might as well furlough every educator, psychologist, psychiatrist, and all researchers and scholars of those.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  31. #206
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    Default Re: Brandishing Firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    ... letting big predators - esp. cougars - get comfortable with human contact leads to problems.
    That is certainly true. We make a point to not let big cats, black caiman, giant otters, etc., get too comfortable.

    But all it takes is clapping your hands or shouting. If you have to shoot to get the critter's attention then it's already too late.

  32. #207
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    Default Re: Brandishing Firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    You picked the wrong root cause of unwanted pregnancies. Ask Bristol Palin how that "abstinence only" education is working for her.
    maybe that’s why I described it as “ineffectual idiocy”?

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    Default Re: Brandishing Firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    I love all the people using "varmints" as an excuse to own big guns.

    Down here there are real predators, that can kill full-grown steers. Same in Africa. Actual ranchers with wildlife problems tend to use poison bait (very cruel - not endorsing it), which is far more effective. Never heard of a rancher who needs assault weapons to deal with a problem predator.

    Then again you could be like out neighbor, and accept the calves killed by jaguars as the cost of doing business.
    Just which "real predators" are down there, that make brown bears, wolves, and mountain lions seem "less real"?
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”― Mark Twain,


  34. #209
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    Default Re: Brandishing Firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Just which "real predators" are down there, that brown bears, wolves, and mountain lions seem " less real"?
    oooohhhh wolves! Evil bad wolves! Gotta kill ‘em all and show our supremacy to nature!

  35. #210
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    Default Re: Brandishing Firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    That is certainly true. We make a point to not let big cats, black caiman, giant otters, etc., get too comfortable.

    But all it takes is clapping your hands or shouting. If you have to shoot to get the critter's attention then it's already too late.
    My uncle was pounced by a cougar and taken down. He was lucky to have a rifle that he held on to. But obviously you would have just let it eat.

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