Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst ... 23
Results 71 to 90 of 90

Thread: Something I don't know how to do!

  1. #71
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    50,481

    Default Re: Something I don't know how to do!

    Quote Originally Posted by SOF64 View Post
    You've set me on a track now. I checked on German Ebay, and there are two antique Nokogiri saw blades, really chunky whaleback saws. The asking price is about € 180 plus 70 for shipping from Japan. I won't spend that money right away, but I will certainly be on the lookout for further offers from now on.

    As for sawing positions, one of our German online tool suppliers shows a similar picture as the one you posted here. It indicates that vertical sawing by single sawyers was also practiced.
    The top[ sawyers job is certainly easier, but the underdog has a miserable time just as with Occidental pit sawing.
    I suspect that the two sawyers sitting at the big log had to work seated as their saws were shorter than the logs diameter, and so they had to saw in unison from opposite sides.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Heilbronn, Germany
    Posts
    74

    Default Re: Something I don't know how to do!

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    I’d bet those guys are following one of those super fine ink lines. We use chalk, the Japanese use ink.





    https://www.tajimatool.com/product/ink-rite/
    I have just googled where chalk lines are still used professionally, and they still seem to be in wider use in carpentry and in interior design than I thought. On the other hand, this Japanese device looks quite sophisticated. You wouldn't find a chalk line tool like that hereabouts. From afar and without much insight into Japanese culture I get the impression that dedicated manual craftsmanship is more appreciated in Japan than in Western nations, and people seem to be prepared the price that comes with it. There also seems to be a ready supply of tools for these kinds of work in Japan.

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    50,481

    Default Re: Something I don't know how to do!

    Quote Originally Posted by SOF64 View Post
    I have just googled where chalk lines are still used professionally, and they still seem to be in wider use in carpentry and in interior design than I thought. On the other hand, this Japanese device looks quite sophisticated. You wouldn't find a chalk line tool like that hereabouts. From afar and without much insight into Japanese culture I get the impression that dedicated manual craftsmanship is more appreciated in Japan than in Western nations, and people seem to be prepared the price that comes with it. There also seems to be a ready supply of tools for these kinds of work in Japan.
    My son uses a chalk line, the new ones are as sophisticated as a Japanese ink line.
    I dunno whether this is the model, but it is similar.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Heilbronn, Germany
    Posts
    74

    Default Re: Something I don't know how to do!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    My son uses a chalk line, the new ones are as sophisticated as a Japanese ink line.
    I dunno whether this is the model, but it is similar.
    What exactly does he use it for?

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    28,971

    Default Re: Something I don't know how to do!

    I love the ink line, that changed my life for laying out spars.

  6. #76
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    St. Helens, Oregon
    Posts
    2,320

    Default Re: Something I don't know how to do!

    A friend of mine carved a traditional dragon tailed inkline holder out of some scrap. Silk line, can't recall what ink he uses but it makes a line that looks like it's been put in with a marking knife.

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    20,242

    Default Re: Something I don't know how to do!

    Quote Originally Posted by SOF64 View Post
    What exactly does he use it for?
    I used a chalk line this morning. i wanted to get the first couple of courses of hardwood flooring down before I left for the day so my daughters could finish installing the rest of the floor after I’d gone. The wall where I started the flooring wasn’t straight, the room had once been two rooms and we had taken out the partition years ago. So a line was snapped as a reference to get the first row of flooring perfectly straight. If it isn’t straight you will run into all sorts of problems getting the flooring to fit correctly as it’s nailed down. They did really well, not quite done but almost. They nailed down 8 of the 10 boxes of prefinished cherry. About 160 sq ft out of 200.

    B67029DC-623E-4593-9DDD-B23FC0DBE426.jpg

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    50,481

    Default Re: Something I don't know how to do!

    Quote Originally Posted by SOF64 View Post
    What exactly does he use it for?
    He is a joiner and uses it for layout work, including the occasional dry lining job before handing over to the plasterer.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  9. #79
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Heilbronn, Germany
    Posts
    74

    Default Re: Something I don't know how to do!

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    I used a chalk line this morning. i wanted to get the first couple of courses of hardwood flooring down before I left for the day so my daughters could finish installing the rest of the floor after Iíd gone. The wall where I started the flooring wasnít straight, the room had once been two rooms and we had taken out the partition years ago. So a line was snapped as a reference to get the first row of flooring perfectly straight. If it isnít straight you will run into all sorts of problems getting the flooring to fit correctly as itís nailed down. They did really well, not quite done but almost. They nailed down 8 of the 10 boxes of prefinished cherry. About 160 sq ft out of 200.

    B67029DC-623E-4593-9DDD-B23FC0DBE426.jpg
    In theory you could use a laser instead, but the chalk line has got definite advantages. The marking stays there for further reference should you need it again, and it is simpler technology and easier to carry around.

    Defining the correct starting position is important, too. I learned that when I helped installing windows as a summer job when I was a student. Sometimes the mason's work was wide off the mark, and we even had to enlarge window openings to set the windows according to the drawings.

  10. #80
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Heilbronn, Germany
    Posts
    74

    Default Re: Something I don't know how to do!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    He is a joiner and uses it for layout work, including the occasional dry lining job before handing over to the plasterer.
    That makes a lot of sense to me. Whenever you need to draw reference lines on walls, floors or even ceilings it is a good method to use.

  11. #81
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    20,242

    Default Re: Something I don't know how to do!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    He is a joiner and uses it for layout work, including the occasional dry lining job before handing over to the plasterer.
    Quote Originally Posted by SOF64 View Post
    That makes a lot of sense to me. Whenever you need to draw reference lines on walls, floors or even ceilings it is a good method to use.
    Unfortunately, this doesn’t make sense at all to me. I’ve spent the last 35 years on all kinds of job sites but here we are separated by a common language. We need an English to American translation. What is a joiner? And what is a “dry lining job”? I know about plasterers.

    We are really getting into the thread drift here. Next we can compare Japanese chalk lines to western chalk lines.

  12. #82
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    50,481

    Default Re: Something I don't know how to do!

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    Unfortunately, this doesn’t make sense at all to me. I’ve spent the last 35 years on all kinds of job sites but here we are separated by a common language. We need an English to American translation. What is a joiner? And what is a “dry lining job”? I know about plasterers.

    We are really getting into the thread drift here. Next we can compare Japanese chalk lines to western chalk lines.
    A joiner is a subset of the woodworker, they join wood together. No 1 son does anything from framing roofs through building paneled doors to fine furniture.
    Dry lining is screwing plasterboard to stud work or ceiling joists or sticking it to brickwork with dabs of plaster.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  13. #83
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    2,099

    Default Re: Something I don't know how to do!

    To my understanding, a joiner is a finish woodworker as pertaining to boatbuilding. I used the term in association with stair building; I could charge more for joiner work. / Jim

  14. #84
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    20,242

    Default Re: Something I don't know how to do!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    A joiner is a subset of the woodworker, they join wood together. No 1 son does anything from framing roofs through building paneled doors to fine furniture.
    Dry lining is screwing plasterboard to stud work or ceiling joists or sticking it to brickwork with dabs of plaster.
    Here that would be either a carpenter or a cabinetmaker. We’d call the dry liner a drywaller. In my work as a self employed carpenter I do all of those things.

  15. #85
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    752

    Default Re: Something I don't know how to do!

    Historically the joiner is the guy allowed to use planes and glue. The craft has three main branches, building joiner (on site production of fixed buildings elements like doors, windows, stairs, paneling), cabinetmaker (off site production of furniture), and patternmaker.
    There are regional differences in Europe of what a joiner could produce or not, for example chairmaking is usually a separate guild, and a joiner could not make or sell chairs and other sitting furniture. Turning was also not something a joiner would do.
    Today the main differentiation still stands, a carpenter makes the structure and roof of a building and a joiner makes the rest. Modern times brought changes, on site production has decreased massively and is often reduced to installation only, patternmaking migrates to 3D printing, and furniture making is heavily industrialized.

  16. #86
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    50,481

    Default Re: Something I don't know how to do!

    Quote Originally Posted by chas View Post
    To my understanding, a joiner is a finish woodworker as pertaining to boatbuilding./ Jim
    That used to be a ships carpenter here. Joiner has superseded that though.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  17. #87
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Heilbronn, Germany
    Posts
    74

    Default Re: Something I don't know how to do!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    Historically the joiner is the guy allowed to use planes and glue. The craft has three main branches, building joiner (on site production of fixed buildings elements like doors, windows, stairs, paneling), cabinetmaker (off site production of furniture), and patternmaker.
    There are regional differences in Europe of what a joiner could produce or not, for example chairmaking is usually a separate guild, and a joiner could not make or sell chairs and other sitting furniture. Turning was also not something a joiner would do.
    Today the main differentiation still stands, a carpenter makes the structure and roof of a building and a joiner makes the rest. Modern times brought changes, on site production has decreased massively and is often reduced to installation only, patternmaking migrates to 3D printing, and furniture making is heavily industrialized.
    Thank you for this detailed explanation. It coincides with my knowledge of the terms for these professions. In Central Europe guilds would regulate very strictly what the individual craftsmen could or couldn't do. They had a tight grip on regulations from the Middle Ages up to the 19th century.

  18. #88
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    50,481

    Default Re: Something I don't know how to do!

    Quote Originally Posted by SOF64 View Post
    Thank you for this detailed explanation. It coincides with my knowledge of the terms for these professions. In Central Europe guilds would regulate very strictly what the individual craftsmen could or couldn't do. They had a tight grip on regulations from the Middle Ages up to the 19th century.
    This book might interest you.
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Village-Car.../dp/0854420657
    Rose writes of village carpentry as it was practised in Buckinghamshire by his family and their men in Victorian times. These reminiscences touch upon such things as mill repairs, farm and house carpentry, timber buying, work in the saw yard, and making field gates, haymaking tools and coffins.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  19. #89
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Heilbronn, Germany
    Posts
    74

    Default Re: Something I don't know how to do!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Thank you for the tip. I have leafed through the extensive preview at Amazon and may try to get hold of a copy. It gives a good impression of a carpenter's life at a time when traditional tools and techniques were used exclusively.

  20. #90
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,247

    Default Re: Something I don't know how to do!

    Last edited by Chippie; 08-13-2020 at 01:19 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •