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Thread: Slippery vs Sticky goo?

  1. #1
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    Default Slippery vs Sticky goo?

    I built my rudder with 1 3/4" oak pintles turning in bent bronze-strap gudgeons. Double-ended boat, strap is thru-bolted into sternpost. I was working fast and loose, and called it good. Now I am fantasizing ways to do better. My idea is to find some way to epoxy / glass / protect the oak pintles and have the outer layer of miracle goo be slippery against the bronze gudgeons.

    Ideas?
    (Idea that didn't worknot yet anyway) I bought expensive teflon tube from McMaster-Carr which had specs for min / max ID / OD, the product anticipating that the user would machine to their use. Dimensions sounded ideal, but I didn't imagine that the thing delivered would not be concentric between ID and OD, and lacking a machinist lathe, my tiny brain could not cope at the time.)

    Ideas?

    Ken

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Slippery vs Sticky goo?

    Chuck it up on your drillpress with an arbor in the inner bore? What kind of tolerance are you looking for? I've done some +/- .010" turning like that.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Slippery vs Sticky goo?

    Replace the oak with HDPE or UHMWPE dowel?

    Line the bronze with same?

    Both?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Slippery vs Sticky goo?

    Why slippery? Peerie Maa's gudgeons and pintles are brass on brass.
    Copper is a good bearing material, put a copper pipe sleeve over the oak.
    I'd be interested in seeing the rudder and gudgeons, have you any photos?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Slippery vs Sticky goo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Chuck it up on your drillpress with an arbor in the inner bore? What kind of tolerance are you looking for? I've done some +/- .010" turning like that.
    I've done that to bring dimensions down - run the drill press and used sand paper to take off the material.
    (Though admittedly, not teflon).
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  6. #6
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    Default

    Just sleeve the oak pintles with a suitably sized oilite bushing (sintered bronze, oil-filled, self-lubricating). Cheap. Available at a real hardware store near you. Will last a long time in the service a rudder sees.

    They come either flanged and non-flanged.



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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Slippery vs Sticky goo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    Just sleeve the oak pintles with a suitably sized oilite bushing (sintered bronze, oil-filled, self-lubricating). Cheap. Available at a real hardware store near you. Will last a long time in the service a rudder sees.

    They come either flanged and non-flanged.
    Yes they do but somehow I doubt you're going to find bronze bushings with a 1-1/2" ID at any real hardware store.

    Hillman's the most frequent supplier of those little boxes of hardware bits you usually find at an Ace or TrueValue here in the US. The bushings for a 1-3/4" OD pintle'd be bigger than the boxes!

    You want something more 'robust' they're available from McMasters for a reasonable price -

    Screen Shot 2020-07-18 at 9.53.14 PM.jpg

    - which is more than I can say for the shipping, but still cheaper than you could drive there to do a will-call more'n likely.

    Can get 'em in pretty BIG ID's too it seems!

    Screen Shot 2020-07-18 at 9.59.35 PM.jpg

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Slippery vs Sticky goo?

    The oillite bushing above would be a simple method.

    Delrin is also good - though you'd have to machine it.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Slippery vs Sticky goo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Why slippery? Peerie Maa's gudgeons and pintles are brass on brass.
    Copper is a good bearing material, put a copper pipe sleeve over the oak.
    I'd be interested in seeing the rudder and gudgeons, have you any photos?
    Unfortunately, I have nor been good with photos, and the boat is now in the water, I really thought the slippery plastic was going to be the ticket, but I didn't have the time or tools to machine the stuff. What does the group think about epoxy / glass with a graphite filler? I now understand the wisdom of tapered pintles & gudgeons, because in a sloppy sea and little wind the rudder thumps back and forth a lot. Unfortunately these described conditions have been common in the Chicago area lately: recent shoreline "improvements" are concrete and the dang powerboats leave a wake that reflects for hours.

    Ken

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Slippery vs Sticky goo?

    Recent improvements? You must be new to Chicago. Corps of Engineers has been dumping riprap on the shoreline for decades....

    Graphite's good alone in epoxy for creating slippery surfaces. Whether you add other stuff to gain some other benefit is of course up to you. Gougeon Bros. has for years included that as a tip in their books & other publications.

    Another good one's aluminum powder if you want a durable, impact- and UV-resistant surface without having to cover with paint or varnish.

    Somewhere else here another forum contributor mentioned a Youtube video dealing with all kinds of epoxy additives and what they can do to improve the basic resin+hardener matrix once it's placed then cured properly.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Slippery vs Sticky goo?

    Quote Originally Posted by sp_clark View Post
    Recent improvements? You must be new to Chicago. Corps of Engineers has been dumping riprap on the shoreline for decades....

    Graphite's good alone in epoxy for creating slippery surfaces. Whether you add other stuff to gain some other benefit is of course up to you. Gougeon Bros. has for years included that as a tip in their books & other publications.

    Another good one's aluminum powder if you want a durable, impact- and UV-resistant surface without having to cover with paint or varnish.

    Somewhere else here another forum contributor mentioned a Youtube video dealing with all kinds of epoxy additives and what they can do to improve the basic resin+hardener matrix once it's placed then cured properly.
    Re: recent "Improvements" I would welcome jumbled rip-rap for a shoreline, which would eat powerboat wake better, my problem is the hard vertical concrete such as the point NW of Montrose harbor which is a perfect wave reflector. The seas become much better when you get off the sand beach north of the Montrose point, but on a sunny weekend, 99% of the sea state seems to be powerboat slop until one gets 5 mi offshore.

    I probably don't need UV resistance 2' below LWL, nor paint and varnish

    Thanks,
    Ken

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