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Thread: Folkboat in Finland

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
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    Helsinki, Finland
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    Default Folkboat in Finland

    Hello everyone!

    Recently I became an owner of a Swedish built clinker hull Folkboat from 1959, currently in Finland.

    Condition is okeyish, I hope to go to water this year.

    Short term mission is patching up some cracks in the hull, repainting etc.

    For next winter there should be a lot of work, changing some hull planks, ribs, keel bolts etc.

    I realized everyone has a bit different opinion how to approach the repairs and maintenance so I am open to all advises but probably will have to make some decision on my own
    bez reg.jpg
    So welcome on board.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
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    St. Helens, Oregon
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    2,320

    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    Welcome aboard! Looks like a nice find. I'm looking forward to seeing your adventures if you'll share them

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Akron, OH
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    135

    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    Welcome! That is a lovely boat - have long admired the lines of the original Folkboats in particular - I had hoped to own one someday....saw one in Cleveland and Port Clinton (Ohio) areas long ago, but those were in sorry shape and beyond my skill / monetary capacity! Perhaps a retirement project boat in my future still!

    Anyway, thanks for posting and let us know what sort of repairs you are attempting and such so the proper advise may be suggested....

    some pics "borrowed" from the SF Folkboat Association webpages....there is a large fleet racing / sailing on San Francisco Bay still...

    20070921_120437_1391.jpg

    US30_Freja_001.jpg

    USA_76_001.jpg

    folkboatplanlarge.jpg

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    Stockholm, Sweden
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    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    Congratulations to your Folkbåt. I'll follow this thread and hope to learn from what you do and the advice you get.

    I have a 7 m lapstrake wooden double ender myself (furusnipa). My present concern is that some boards are in bad shape with long cracks of about 10 mm every spring. I fill them with some goo every spring but the situation is getting worse. My boat isn't particularly special and I don't want to spend the effort of exchanging all the bad boards. My plan is to use a router and first widen the gaps, then epoxy in some fresch wood. I presume that you also have similar problems with the boards and am interrested to know how you plan to handle the problem, and to listen in to the advice you get.

    Erik

  5. #5
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    Jun 2020
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    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    Quote Originally Posted by ERGR View Post
    Congratulations to your Folkbåt. I'll follow this thread and hope to learn from what you do and the advice you get.

    I have a 7 m lapstrake wooden double ender myself (furusnipa). My present concern is that some boards are in bad shape with long cracks of about 10 mm every spring. I fill them with some goo every spring but the situation is getting worse. My boat isn't particularly special and I don't want to spend the effort of exchanging all the bad boards.

    Erik
    Hi, thank you! Funny I came here to get advice, but I will share what I know.

    1. What kind of goo are you using? I have heard, and it makes sense, you shouldn't fill the cracks with anything that hardens like "sikaflex" sealers. Main reason is as the wood swells and expands when wet thees crack are getting closed up, and if you have something hard in the crack it will just make pressure and wood to expand the crack in length. That is my understanding.

    2. I have multiple cracks with thickness of 1 to 3 mm and in length from 30 cm to over a meter. My plan is to srap the paint in that area, apply what I think is pine tar. Its sold in Finland under brand name Ettan (like one snuse brand in sweden ) https://store.captainsshop.fi/PUUVEN...pa/p876-ET200/

    Don't really know much about this product but I plan to use it, and paint over it. I can let you know how it will work. Does anyone her has experience with it?

    3. Changing bad boards. Thats a plan for the winter and I also need to learn a lot. On this boat a previus own fixed one cracked plank by screwing a sheet of plywood so i have one big plank to change and a few crack left. If you mix epoxy with the wooden hull do you think as the wood dries and shrinks it migh crack the epoxy, I personally wouldn't mix those two unless you epoxy the whole hull. (personally i dont like that either and don't know anything about it but many have done that on different wooden boats.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    Stockholm, Sweden
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    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    Hi,
    Ettan is what's traditionally used on wooden boats. I think it's awkward to use and you have to warm it upp somewhat to be able to apply it. For small cracks it's probably the best choice because it's proven in use.

    I use two other products, one is from International and named "Tät". It comes in 300 g tubes and is applied with the same tool as for silicone ("sprutstomme"). The other product is called Farm 80 or Farm 100 and come in 0.75 liter jars. I need 1-2 kg each year so cost and size of the packages matter. Both products are intended for sealing wood hulls and will not harden, but will squeeze out of the cracks when the boat sits in water for some days. I agree that silicone and any similar products are unsuitable and will ruin the hull.

    The plan with epoxy (unless I'm talked out of it) is to glue in fresch wood, maybe a 5 cm wide strip where the crack was, after having widened the crack with a router. I'll not seal the wood with epoxy; it will still be able to breathe to the outside and to the inside of the boat. The epoxy will only be for fastening the fresch wood strip to the old board.

    I've used epoxy together with wood in many other places on this boat where I've needed to glue wood together, but never so the wood is encapsulated. I believe that it's considered a viable method. I'm however a little uncomfortable at exchanging part of the boards and glue a new part in with epoxy the way I suggest.

    I'm possibly hijacking your thread with my issue, but I hope that people with more experience of these type of repairs than you and I will chip in. Our problems seem to be similar.

    Erik

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
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    Helsinki, Finland
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    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    Yes, well for the planks if I will do it, I will be doing it next winter/spring so we can talk then. Now Ettan , as I understood its a mix of beeswax and tar, will be use so I will update the progress.

    Now I am going to buy one of those electric stove cookers to keep it melitng.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    Port Townsend WA
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    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    I have always liked FolkBoats! They have very sweet lines.
    Jay
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 08-22-2020 at 03:46 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    604

    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    So now you need to start looking for some suitable planking trees in the woods?
    The best time to fell pine for planking is from late November to early April. If you get it sawn and stickered in March or April it is ready for use after midsummer............ or do you have a supply of ready sawn planking stock?
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

  10. #10
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    Jun 2020
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    Helsinki, Finland
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    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    Quote Originally Posted by heimlaga View Post
    So now you need to start looking for some suitable planking trees in the woods?
    The best time to fell pine for planking is from late November to early April. If you get it sawn and stickered in March or April it is ready for use after midsummer............ or do you have a supply of ready sawn planking stock?
    I do not have any of this Will start looking

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
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    21

    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    Tragedy strucks!

    So I was hopping to put get some sailing out of her this season, as season in Finland is so short. And then do a proper work in the winter.

    Yesterday I splashed some water on the hull to scrape of flaking anitfouling when i noticed that the wooden keel in below the deadwood, near the rudder seems to be very soft, probably rotten.

    Video link: https://youtu.be/7uGLdu_6xLA

    Now the questions is not if i will have to fix that, but when. If I put her in the water as it is, does that poses a safety issue for sailing, will it break in half while sailing

    Should I stop thinking that I will make it to the water this year and just start working on it?

    Please help

  12. #12
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    Nov 2013
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    Stockholm, Sweden
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    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    If the problem is reasonably local, less than a meter or so, and doesn't cause a leak I would put her into the the water and do some sailing. Only you have sufficient information to make a guess as to wether she'll hold or not. Use common sense and try to imagine where the forces from mast and the rudder will go.

    I've had similar surprices several times in spring when making my boat ready for the summer. It doesn't take many days to make an emergency repair by removing the rotten wood and glue in fresch wood with epoxy when that's necessary. The old members in the boat club would shake their heads and say "you'll never be ready in time", which I always was. The truth is that not may people have experience with wooden boats any longer, not even in Finland or Sweden, so you have to be your own expert.

    Erik

  13. #13
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    Jun 2020
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    Helsinki, Finland
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    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    Had a wooden boat specialist coming in today. Yes I know I should have done that way before, but it is what it is.

    In a nutshell suggested putting some bolts across the keel section to keep it up for a year.

    Another thing as went went inside, the keel bolts and the oak floor timber (i hope im saying it correctly the wooden part that bold go through) are in quite bad condition. As a fixup another bolts through floor timber and the hull was suggested.

    Keel timber and keel bolts should be replaced next year.

    I am considering cutting my loses and passing the boat to another "lucky" fellow at this point.

  14. #14
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    Jun 2020
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    Helsinki, Finland
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    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    So after a week of despair i am gettign back to the the boat tomorrow and will give my bast to make it sail again, at least fro some time.

    Anyway I was thinking about those keel bolts, and why were they made from sutch a "bad"material, probably because it was the cheapest option. Now i was looking into the price of some metals and if replacing keelbolts I would prefer if the keelbolts would outlive the boat and me so i dont have to repeat it ever again.

    I was looking into duplex stainless steel, but then i just started thinking why not brass, bronze, aluminium or even aluminum bronze might be the best non corosive material. If you could chose what materail would you choose fro your new keelbolts.

  15. #15
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    Apr 2015
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    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    Don't Despair...it's just wood and fasteners. Silicon bronze seems to be the keelbolt of choice as it does not tend to develop crevice corrosion as stainless would in that application. There are several threads here discussing Folkboat (and other wood boats) keelbolt replacements. The galvanic issues crop up when the bolts are not sufficiently sealed against seawater intrusion.
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...bolts-Folkboat
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=eXDbX9UxLHk
    https://forums.ybw.com/index.php?thr...terial.316771/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CyE1skWz-I

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
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    77

    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    Yes, you have a boat at the end of its useful life. Folkboats were built to last 50 - 60 years, and she probably has had only cosmetic maintenance in that time, that is the bad news. The good news is she is an simple, honest design made of materials that can be replaced and the boat can be rebuilt better than new.

    You can't do it yourself, it is so much more fun when you have people to help. First step, join the club - https://www.folkkari.net There will be people with the expertise to help you with everything from keelboats to sails.

    Second, take your time and enjoy the process, make a plan, start at the core structure and do some every year. Much you can do yourself and some you will need help. For example, I wouldn't recommend tackling the keelboats yourself, it just goes so much faster and is more fun if you have someone knowledgeable. You are paying tuition, going to school to learn your boat. Some people love the building part. My good friend rebuilt a Folkboat from a new keel timber, bolts to even new traditional canvas decks. It was stunning, but he sold his Folkboat. Didn't like sailing, loved rebuilding the boat, but thought sailing stressful and slow, couldn't get into it.

    Build your team. You aren't going to sail the boat yourself, and you certainly don't want to rebuild her yourself. I've rebuilt two Folkboats and one I restored and she is the one in the picture above with Ditte sailing. Yes, they are that much fun, but the fun is shared with your crew and the other boats you sail with. Think of it as starting an adventure, it is all about the people you will meet and the places you will see oh and you will enjoy the boat too.

    - Rich

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    I like the boat Folksailor, you already received some pretty good advice for the rebuilding process.
    Just enjoy it. Keep posting pictures please so that we can also learn from your experiences.

  18. #18
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    Jun 2020
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    Helsinki, Finland
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    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemsteraak View Post
    First step, join the club - https://www.folkkari.net
    By this point, if I got a copper rivet every time someone suggested me that, I could build a new boat Just kidding a bit.

    You make a good point, agree with you.

    The place I have my boat there is actually 6 more folkboats, 3 of them are under different stages of repair/maintenance work so I could see and learn a lot.
    Everyone has been more than friendly with advice, IRL and here so yhea, thank you all.

    Ill post you with the progress.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Portland, Oregon
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    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    Excellent, you have step one done

    Step 2, Keelbolts - seriously, Folkboats are built like baskets and the keelboats hold the whole basket together. They have no goop, glue, caulking, just rivets, screws and bolts. The keelbolts are oversized by today's standard so that is why they can last 60 years. It's not that your keel will fall off, the whole structure will get loose. Tackle this job first and then everything else is easy. If you aren't in a position to replace the keelbolts, then replace the first one, that one is easy and it is undersized and more exposed. It is short and at an angle and takes a lot of abuse being under the mast. Then when you have the time and money, replace the rest. Here is what you are in for - http://www.sfbayfolkboats.org/archiv...keelbolts.html

    If your Folkboat you have isn't worth the effort of putting in new keelbolts, that is OK. If you find you like the design and now that you are part of the "club" then you will find a boat that is worthy of the effort. I've owned two Folkboats, one was a sweet boat but not quality construction so we never changed the keelbolts, the other was built at a shipyard for the yard's owner. A beautifully built boat and one that was well worth the effort. Just because it is wood doesn't mean it is good.

  20. #20
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    Jun 2020
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    Helsinki, Finland
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    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    I have scraped off some old antifouling, and the keel seems to be quite rusty so by accident I scraped off a bit more than planned.

    On the bright side I found where the keelbolt pocket is, wont touch that for now, but good to know.
    Last edited by FolkSailor; 08-11-2020 at 10:29 AM. Reason: photo add

  21. #21
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    Jun 2020
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    Helsinki, Finland
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    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    Had a little ankle injury so 3 weeks of delay resulted in change of plans, not going to water this year for sure and now working on a plan for a more proper restoration for next year(s).

    Taking some of the advice
    I made a "little" to do list, now to plan for the schedule and order of work, recruiting some volunteers (if anyone of you are in Finland and wants to drop by, you are welcome), making budget etc.

    Deck/cockpit


    Removing old varnish and applying new varnish on cockpit wood




    Inside


    Cleaning the hull
    Removing / scraping loose lead read paint
    Impregnation with linseed oil / wood impreg by hempel


    Repairing / rebuilding the ribs


    Structural


    Rebuilding the floorboards


    Replacing the keelbolts


    Replacing the mast “socket”


    Rebuilding the keel (aft part)




    Hull


    Below the waterline


    Replacing planks - First and second on each side completely, one more on each side because


    Painting




    Above the waterline


    Scraping old paint, oil impreg ,new varnish /paint

  22. #22
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    Jun 2020
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    Default Re: Folkboat in Finland

    What does the internet thinks, should i first repair the ribs and then the planks or the other way around?

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