The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

[hereselmo1]

So here's some more pics of the jib halyard

First the cleats and the slide on the jib side of the mast (that assume might have been for a Highfield lever?)

2nd pick is the halyard lock. Seems to be quite thin for that thin rope. I assume I'd have to replace it if it went to 6mm Spectra.

3rd is the 2 ends of the halyard wire that is currently there. As you can see it is way too long to rig as suggested.

4th is the forestry attachment and halyard block high up on the mast.

5th is the 2 Anchor points at the bottom of the mast on the mainsail side. I assume one of these would be used to put a bock for the mainsail halyard?

6 is the mainsail halyard block at the top of the mast. This seems to wide to be designed to have a wire?

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[Besserwisser]

Are you sure you want to do hanked? Furlers are much easier.

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[hereselmo1]

Are you sure you want to do hanked? Furlers are much easier.

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I feel like hanked would be easier for now.

Furlers just seems like another complexity ATM.

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[Larks]

So here's some more pics of the jib halyard

First the cleats and the slide on the jib side of the mast (that assume might have been for a Highfield lever?) ​If this track is on the front of the mast it is more likely for a spinnaker pole. A Highfield lever fits to the foredeck and tensions the forestay - google it.

2nd pick is the halyard lock. Seems to be quite thin for that thin rope. I assume I'd have to replace it if it went to 6mm Spectra. ​What do you mean by “halyard lock”? I’ve never heard of such a beast. Could you undo the line and let us see what the fitting actually is? Where on the mast is it located? The halyards are wrapped around the cleats either side of the mast and the nature of those cleats allows the lines to “lock” onto the cleats over the top in the sharper notch of the cleat. You don’t ever want to tie them off to anything as you may need to drop them in a hurry and knots under pressure won’t untie...)

3rd is the 2 ends of the halyard wire that is currently there. As you can see it is way too long to rig as suggested. ​I don’t know what that was meant to be but it seems to be in the wrong place anyway - take it off and forget about it

4th is the forestry attachment and halyard block high up on the mast That halyard block with the wire running through it is attached to a swivel normally associated with a jib furler, so it looks like - along with the out of place and too long cable that runs through it - you have a bit of a hodge podge of pieces there. More reason to bin it all and start from scratch.

5th is the 2 Anchor points at the bottom of the mast on the mainsail side. I assume one of these would be used to put a bock for the mainsail halyard? ​Or simply to hank your halyard shckles too when they’re not attached to a sail.

6 is the mainsail halyard block at the top of the mast. This seems to wide to be designed to have a wire As I said before, forget worrying about the cables and run a Spectra halyard - given that nylon block being there it would not have had a cable running over it for a halyard anyway.

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​Is there anywhere down the mast that’d allow the main halyard to be run down inside the mast and then feed back out to go up to one of those cleats? Either a smooth edged and slightly bent out hole above the cleats or a small turning block below the cleats?

This might look like a bit of a rats nest the way I had it all bundled up for towing but if you zoom in on this you can see that I had a couple of turning blocks at the base of the mast so that I could run the halyards down to them and back up to the cleats to get better purchase for tensioning the halyards.

[IMG]IMG_0704 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

[hereselmo1]

There doesn't appear to be anywhere for the mainsail halyard to come out.

It looks like it just goes down the same groove that the mast goes up.

I dont get how you create the mechanic advantage and end up at the cleat in that scenario.

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[Willywaw]

I feel like hanked would be easier for now.

Furlers just seems like another complexity ATM.

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With a wire luff the jib will flap about on being dropped and will inevitably end up in the drink, Ok on a race boat but a PIA when cruising. A hanked jib will drop neatly remaining attached to the forestay. Sure rollers are nice but expensive and complicated once you take the line running aft into account. A hanked jib is also much easier to stow. If you do go with hanks then that swivel at the head of the jib halyard needs to go, you need to have the halyard closer to the forestay.

We have a Castle 550 trailersailer and use one of our old TS16 jibs as our No3 when the wind gets up. I took out the luff wire and replaced it with some cord and then screwed on the plastic hanks...no need for eyelets as the hank grips the "swell" created by the luff cord to take the load.

[Willywaw]

That item in number 2 is a lock for a wire halyard. Put the wire into the slot and the halyard tension locks the swage in place.
Lock002.jpg_RF191.jpg
I don't know what it's doing on the front of the mast This is a dinghy fitting and often lives at the masthead as a means of halving the mast compression effect of the halyard.

[Willywaw]

There doesn't appear to be anywhere for the mainsail halyard to come out.

It looks like it just goes down the same groove that the mast goes up.

I dont get how you create the mechanic advantage and end up at the cleat in that scenario.

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The cleanest solution for the main would be to have the spectra go around the sheave at the masthead -> down the sail slot on the back of the mast -> down past the track on which the gooseneck car slides -> down to a block on the saddle -> then back up to the cleat.

Hoist the main to the top, cleat it off and then tension the luff by pushing down on the gooseneck car and locking it in place (I'm assuming the car has the spring loaded pin that locks into the holes in the track).
Main.jpg

[hereselmo1]

With a wire luff the jib will flap about on being dropped and will inevitably end up in the drink, Ok on a race boat but a PIA when cruising. A hanked jib will drop neatly remaining attached to the forestay. Sure rollers are nice but expensive and complicated once you take the line running aft into account. A hanked jib is also much easier to stow. If you do go with hanks then that swivel at the head of the jib halyard needs to go, you need to have the halyard closer to the forestay.

We have a Castle 550 trailersailer and use one of our old TS16 jibs as our No3 when the wind gets up. I took out the luff wire and replaced it with some cord and then screwed on the plastic hanks...no need for eyelets as the hank grips the "swell" created by the luff cord to take the load.

Damn. I'd just slept on it and decided to do a furler.

Now I'm confused again lol.

Also I don't get how the swivel at the head of the jib halard works anyway. If that top block rotates won't the "up" and the "down" of the halyard just wind around each other?

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[hereselmo1]

The cleanest solution for the main would be to have the spectra go around the sheave at the masthead -> down the sail slot on the back of the mast -> down past the track on which the gooseneck car slides -> down to a block on the saddle -> then back up to the cleat.

Hoist the main to the top, cleat it off and then tension the luff by pushing down on the gooseneck car and locking it in place (I'm assuming the car has the spring loaded pin that locks into the holes in the track).
Main.jpg

So no mechanical advantage for the mainsail halyard?

Also when pushing down on the gooseneck do you just do that by hand?

Or would you use the vang to help?

P.s. thanks for all your awesome answers and especially drawings all of you. They help do much..

As you can tell I am very much a novice.



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[Besserwisser]

No mechanical advantage required; it's a small sail. And as Larks says, the halyard is normally fed inside the stick and through an exit at a convenient point. If your stick doesn't have that exit, just drill one.

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[Larks]

You have a couple of options but you need to start deciding some of these things for yourself:

You can drill a hole above the cleats on the mast, file the edges smooth, stick a screw driver or something inside the hole and bend the top of the hole out a bit and the base of the hole in a bit to open a clearer path for the mainsheet halyard. Then you could either just hank the main halyard down onto the cleat or you could do like mine and run it down to a block at the base of the mast and back up to the cleat if you want the extra purchase (I always found it more convenient to pull the halyard up to the cleat on a small rocking boat anyway and I did like having that extra little bit of purchase for less effort); or


You could cut a rectangular slot closer to the base of the mast and fit something like one of these that would give you both egress for the main halyard and allow you to pull the halyard up to the cleat with that little bit more purchase if you want it: https://www.velasailingsupply.com/an...UaAjupEALw_wcB



The roller furler is handy, especially if you like to just head out for a sail by yourself, but a hanked on jib is as much as you need to enjoy the boat. If I had the inclination to spend more $$ on my Hartley when I had it I’d probably have opted for a roller furling jib. If your jib has no eyelets and given the swivel on the halyard I’m thinking that it was probably set up for one anyway.

[hereselmo1]

You have a couple of options but you need to start deciding some of these things for yourself:

You can drill a hole above the cleats on the mast, file the edges smooth, stick a screw driver or something inside the hole and bend the top of the hole out a bit and the base of the hole in a bit to open a clearer path for the mainsheet halyard. Then you could either just hank the main halyard down onto the cleat or you could do like mine and run it down to a block at the base of the mast and back up to the cleat if you want the extra purchase (I always found it more convenient to pull the halyard up to the cleat on a small rocking boat anyway and I did like having that extra little bit of purchase for less effort); or


You could cut a rectangular slot closer to the base of the mast and fit something like one of these that would give you both egress for the main halyard and allow you to pull the halyard up to the cleat with that little bit more purchase if you want it: https://www.velasailingsupply.com/an...UaAjupEALw_wcB



The roller furler is handy, especially if you like to just head out for a sail by yourself, but a hanked on jib is as much as you need to enjoy the boat. If I had the inclination to spend more $$ on my Hartley when I had it I’d probably have opted for a roller furling jib. If your jib has no eyelets and given the swivel on the halyard I’m thinking that it was probably set up for one anyway.

Ok. I'll have another look and another think re the mainsail halyard.

I already have the jib furler and i might even have the locking cleat for the rope. So I don't think it is any extra coat to set it up. So I think I'll just furl it

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[Larks]

Ok. I'll have another look and another think re the mainsail halyard.

I already have the jib furler and i might even have the locking cleat for the rope. So I don't think it is any extra coat to set it up. So I think I'll just furl it

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just remember - the only “rope” on any boat is the one used to ring the bell

[hereselmo1]

1. So I assume this jib firler just connects straight to the bow peice?

2. Do I just put a bolt through the top of the furler into the loop and firing at the bottom of the jib?

3 and 4. At the top this fitting was on the loop. I assume I can leave it there. I'm just not sure how that bolt (at the bottom of pick 4) connects to the halyard.

Does it need a swivel like 5?

Or do I remove that bolt and add a halyard shackle?

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[Willywaw]

So you had the furler the whole time!

[Larks]

1. So I assume this jib firler just connects straight to the bow peice?

2. Do I just put a bolt through the top of the furler into the loop and firing at the bottom of the jib?

3 and 4. At the top this fitting was on the loop. I assume I can leave it there. I'm just not sure how that bolt (at the bottom of pick 4) connects to the halyard.

Does it need a swivel like 5?

Or do I remove that bolt and add a halyard shackle?

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Honestly Elmo, and I mean no disrespect, but have you ever heard of Google search? Some of this stuff is better found there so that you can learn it first hand yourself - the chances of someone here having that same furler and fittings are slim to none so we’ll all be doing the same thing that you should be doing: ie doing a Google search for something similar.....

[Geftb]

I have rarely heard Greg lay it out like this…
must be the numbers.
1F4F25E8-50B6-4840-87BC-6DDE64168213.jpg

I find it a lot more educational figuring stuff out myself.

[hereselmo1]

Honestly Elmo, and I mean no disrespect, but have you ever heard of Google search? Some of this stuff is better found there so that you can learn it first hand yourself - the chances of someone here having that same furler and fittings are slim to none so we’ll all be doing the same thing that you should be doing: ie doing a Google search for something similar.....

Fair enough.

I just thought you guys already knew everything

You seem to.

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[Andrew Donald]

At a guess Elmo, I’d replace the bolt in that swivel with a shackle (I’m assuming the fitting in your hand is a swivel). Maybe a new swivel (does it spin nice?? ) might pay off.

[hereselmo1]

At a guess Elmo, I’d replace the bolt in that swivel with a shackle (I’m assuming the fitting in your hand is a swivel). Maybe a new swivel (does it spin nice?? ) might pay off.

Thanks mate.

I'm planning on replacing it with a halyard shackle.

Though I'm not 100% sure of the benefit of a halyard shackle over a regular one.

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[Larks]

On a halyard shackle the pin kinda clicks closed rather than screwing in so that it’s secure but easier to remove when changing hanked on sails and you’re less likely to loose the pin overboard when you’re balancing on the bow because of the tail on the end (you’re more likely to loose the whole shackle...)



versus

[hereselmo1]

On a halyard shackle the pin kinda clicks closed rather than screwing in so that it’s secure but easier to remove when changing hanked on sails and you’re less likely to loose the pin overboard when you’re balancing on the bow because of the tail on the end (you’re more likely to loose the whole shackle...)



versus

Yep that makes sense. The ones I'd seen had an extra bar across the middle.

That was the bit I couldn't work out (and I did google it )

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[Larks]

Yep that makes sense. The ones I'd seen had an extra bar across the middle.

That was the bit I couldn't work out (and I did google it )

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They may have another use as well but (for me) the cross bar stops the shackle coming off the halyard (or anything else that it’s used on) while the pin is out and also stops the halyard slipping around to the pin end at any time so that everything stays in place where it should when it’s not under tension so that it falls properly into place when tension is applied...ie when the sail goes up

[hereselmo1]

They may have another use as well but (for me) the cross bar stops the shackle coming off the halyard (or anything else that it’s used on) while the pin is out and also stops the halyard slipping around to the pin end at any time so that everything stays in place where it should when it’s not under tension so that it falls properly into place when tension is applied...ie when the sail goes up

Ah. That makes sense.

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[hereselmo1]

Ok another newbie question that I have been researching for hours to no avail.

The set up I have is a roller reefing boom and I'm keen to try it that way before changing it (despite it seemingly being an out of date option).

I have the claw for the vang.

I want to use a rope traveller to keep the stern sheeting up over the tiller and the outboard and to keep the deck as free as possible for boarding and for fishing.

I was planning on just using a very simple stern sheeting as in this pic.

My question is where is best to jam cleat the stern sheeting if you don't want to hang onto it all day that won't get in the way of the tiller and the outboard or cut across the cabin?

I have been considering 3 options.

1. Putting a jam cleat on the bottom block and locking it off there bit I am worried that the excess sheet will get tangled in the tiller

2. Running it back down the mast and using a 2nd claw to take it down to the aft of the centreboard case. But I don't have a 2nd claw (and they seem expensive) and I don't know how to keep the claw where I want it (I know the vang one is tied to the aft of the boom to stop it sliding forwards).

3. Putting jam cleats on the bow side of the outboard well, as wide as possible, on each side. Obviously this line would run from the top block to the cleat to hopefully stay wide of the outboard and tiller.

I feel like there must be a better way but I'm not sure.







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[hereselmo1]

Ok more googling and this 4th option is a very simple one. See the slip knot used at about 40s.

Would it work on a TS16 or would it only work on smaller dinghies?

https://youtu.be/QOTEWglQNmw

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[Besserwisser]

Damn. I'd just slept on it and decided to do a furler.
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That was a worthwhile sleep...I've never yet met a sailor who has regretted fitting a furler.


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[hereselmo1]

That was a worthwhile sleep...I've never yet met a sailor who has regretted fitting a furler.


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I'm even going to try the boom roller for a while to see how it goes.

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[Larks]

Ok more googling and this 4th option is a very simple one. See the slip knot used at about 40s.

Would it work on a TS16 or would it only work on smaller dinghies?

https://youtu.be/QOTEWglQNmw

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I can’t really see how that could ever be a good idea on a mainsheet, or any other line on a boat - any decent bit of pressure on the main from any sort of gust would jam that knot into the block and you’ll be on your ear before you know it because you can’t dump the wind out of the main quickly enough. You really do not want knots anywhere around your sheets and halyards other than perhaps a figure of eight at the end to stop them running completely through a block.

On your mainsheet I suggest a cam-cleat block like this

[hereselmo1]

I can’t really see how that could ever be a good idea on a mainsheet, or any other line on a boat - any decent bit of pressure on the main from any sort of gust would jam that knot into the block and you’ll be on your ear before you know it because you can’t dump the wind out of the main quickly enough. You really do not want knots anywhere around your sheets and halyards other than perhaps a figure of eight at the end to stop them running completely through a block.

On your mainsheet I suggest a cam-cleat block like this

Thanks mate. That'd kind of what I was thinking re the knot and that's exactly what I am looking at.

Is the sheet (I wrote rope and corrected myself ) getting caught around the tiller a big problem? Or is it OK because you have it in your hand whenever you need to tack anyway?

Also is there any way to add a jamming cleat to the existing double block or do I just have to buy a new one?

It seems such a waste when I have these great Ronstan double blocks already.

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[Besserwisser]

No need to buy something new. Fit the cleats to the side decks, near where you helm from. Use the sort of cleat pictured in posts above (Ronstan calls them T-cleats). Use them bare, no guides, so you can throw the sheet off quickly.

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[gypsie]

That was a worthwhile sleep...I've never yet met a sailor who has regretted fitting a furler.

Well, you say that....

I don't really regret it - but i was in a a bit of a blow recently and the sheaves in my furler bocks literally crushed under the strain as i was furling the sail away.
My bad, i used light weight blocks, i completely underestimated the forces.

I had to derig the foresail in 25 to 30, out of the furling system. Twasn't fun.

[gypsie]

Thanks mate. That'd kind of what I was thinking re the knot and that's exactly what I am looking at.

Is the sheet (I wrote rope and corrected myself ) getting caught around the tiller a big problem? Or is it OK because you have it in your hand whenever you need to tack anyway?

Also is there any way to add a jamming cleat to the existing double block or do I just have to buy a new one?

It seems such a waste when I have these great Ronstan double blocks already.

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Sheets get wrapped around things - especially when its least convenient - you get good at being tidy.
Eventually it'll be so second nature that you'll get frustrated with visitors because they don't understand how that pile of 'rope' on the 'floor' needs to move smoothly through that 'thing' there! Get your foot out of it! Even though it's so obvious.

[hereselmo1]

Sheets get wrapped around things - especially when its least convenient - you get good at being tidy.
Eventually it'll be so second nature that you'll get frustrated with visitors because they don't understand how that pile of 'rope' on the 'floor' needs to move smoothly through that 'thing' there! Get your foot out of it! Even though it's so obvious.

That kind of competency could be a way off yet

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