The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

[hereselmo1]

Cute pics of the kids. Peeling off tape to reveal a nice clean line is soooo satisfying!

re-windows. When you buy the acrylic it has a paper cover stuck on. I inserted my windows and scribed the inside line into the paper with a sharp blade. Then peeled off that outside 20mm or whatever it was.
Then applied heaps! of sika into the rabbet. Pushed the window in, squeegeed the sika into the crevices and used the remaining paper exactly as masking tape.
Then i attached a bezel with small bolts, no more sika, which is mostly aesthetic, but does prevent the window from lifting out.


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Which Sika did you use?

Do I need a primer over the paint/Epoxy?

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[hereselmo1]

Adding some bling

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[Larks]

Fixtech Fix 190 or Sikaflkex 295 are both suitable

https://assets.cdn.thewebconsole.com...pressed-16.pdf

[hereselmo1]

Fixtech Fix 190 or Sikaflkex 295 are both suitable

https://assets.cdn.thewebconsole.com...pressed-16.pdf

Cheers.

Would the painted or epoxied surface need to be primed? Or just sanded?

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[Larks]

Cheers.

Would the painted or epoxied surface need to be primed? Or just sanded?

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You should check the application spec’s for each one yourself to be sure, but from memory the Fixtech at least should be able to go straight over clean painted or epoxied surface - just not over bare wood.

[hereselmo1]

First time putting the mast up!

A few questions.

1. The front stay needed 2 x turn buckles to get it to the right position. I don't want to do whole new stays, should I just use a longer turn buckle?

2. The side stays were just too short without a turnbuckle and just too long with it. Do I just get a shorter turnbuckle? Or is there a better way?

3. The jib halyard has a single block at the top with a wire through it. One end of the wire has a loop, the other end has a block. I think it's missing the rope section but I can't work out how it goes.

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[Larks]

I just used a few loops of line to fasten my forestay on my TS16 rather than turnbuckles or a Highfield lever or anything. I’ll see if I can find some pic’s but it was about 1.5 metres long and attached to the stay then tied down to the bow fitting. To raise the mast I’d leave the trailer hooked up to my ute and I’d run a second temporary line from the stay forward to the ladder rack on the ute and back to the boat so that I could walk the mast up while keeping tension on the line with my left hand. Once it was up I could then hold the tension while climbing off the boat and then just walk that second line back to the bow and hold it while I pulled my short length of tensioning line down to the bow fitting, tension it up, run a few loops from the stay to the bow fitting and tie off around itself........ if that possibly makes any sense...... ???

After the first time I set the rig up I never had to adjust the side stays again as tensioning the forestay pulled the tension on to everything else evenly, so I could just hook the side stays to the chainplates, make sure they wouldn’t foul on anything and just raise the stick..

It looks like you should be able to find a shackle that’d be just the right size to go directly from the side stay to either the chain plate extension without any turnbuckles - which is what I had (without the extension), or from the turnbuckle to the chainplate directly.

[WX]

You could increase the height of the block under the mast step.
This is from the Hartley TS16 website on rigging.
http://www.australianhartleyts16.org...ng/setup-hints

[Larks]

Not a good pic and it’s a bit old but it might give you the idea:

[IMG]boat - slowly slowly by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]



Here’sone mid mast raising with the forestay still wrapped around the ladder rack on the ute:



[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[Peerie Maa]

I just used a few loops of line to fasten my forestay on my TS16 rather than turnbuckles or a Highfield lever or anything. I’ll see if I can find some pic’s but it was about 1.5 metres long and attached to the stay then tied down to the bow fitting. To raise the mast I’d leave the trailer hooked up to my ute and I’d run a second temporary line from the stay forward to the ladder rack on the ute and back to the boat so that I could walk the mast up while keeping tension on the line with my left hand. Once it was up I could then hold the tension while climbing off the boat and then just walk that second line back to the bow and hold it while I pulled my short length of tensioning line down to the bow fitting, tension it up, run a few loops from the stay to the bow fitting and tie off around itself........ if that possibly makes any sense...... ???

After the first time I set the rig up I never had to adjust the side stays again as tensioning the forestay pulled the tension on to everything else evenly, so I could just hook the side stays to the chainplates, make sure they wouldn’t foul on anything and just raise the stick..

It looks like you should be able to find a shackle that’d be just the right size to go directly from the side stay to either the chain plate extension without any turnbuckles - which is what I had (without the extension), or from the turnbuckle to the chainplate directly.

This^

For the forestay, insert a short length of chain, or a very substantial lashing. In order to harden up enough to engage the turn buckle take a lanyard to a shacke aft of the forestay shackle to control the mast whils you connect the shackle.

[hereselmo1]

This^

For the forestay, insert a short length of chain, or a very substantial lashing.

Define very substantial please

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[hereselmo1]

Not a good pic and it’s a bit old but it might give you the idea:

[IMG]boat - slowly slowly by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]



Here’sone mid mast raising with the forestay still wrapped around the ladder rack on the ute:



[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Hmm I'd love to see that more closely.

A few of those pics didn't load.

What size rope? How many times wrapped around?

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[hereselmo1]

This^

For the forestay, insert a short length of chain, or a very substantial lashing.

Also what kind of chain?

P.s. thanks guys these are super helpful replies.

Any tips on the jib halyard?

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[Larks]

Hmm I'd love to see that more closely.

A few of those pics didn't load.

What size rope? How many times wrapped around?

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In all honesty there was nothing particularly scientific about my set up, I think what I had at the time was something like a length of about 5 or 6 mm Spectra and I looped it between the stay and a shackle on the bow chain-plate as many times as it took to use up the line that I had - probably three full loops at a guess???. So I’d suggest whatever non stretch or low stretch high strength line that your local chandlery has such as Dyneema or Spectra UHMWPE (ultra high molecular weight polyethylene fibre)
For example I see that Boat Warehouse has YachtSpec 3000 5mm line that has a breaking strain of 2200kg, 6mm is 3400kg.....either would be plenty adequate.

[Peerie Maa]

Also what kind of chain?

P.s. thanks guys these are super helpful replies.

Any tips on the jib halyard?

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Propper welded link as thick a s will fit into the jaws of the turnbuckle. Or a stainless flat bar that will fit, drilled to take the cotter pins. One will cost chandlers prices, the other recuires some time in the workshop.

[Larks]

Hmm I'd love to see that more closely.

A few of those pics didn't load.

What size rope? How many times wrapped around?

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Sadly I can’t find any more recent photos of the mast up and rigged that I can get a clearer image of for you. But if you can post some clearer pics of your jib halyard setup, including where the forestay attaches to the mast I’lll see what I can make of it for you tomorrow when I log back in. I should have some more recent photos of my mast arrangement laying down and unrigged that might still show you the setup.

[Peerie Maa]

3. The jib halyard has a single block at the top with a wire through it. One end of the wire has a loop, the other end has a block. I think it's missing the rope section but I can't work out how it goes.

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A very confusing photo, have you one without the birdsnest of wire?
Yep, a line shackled to an eye on the mast or deck, through the block on the halyard, and belayed to that cleat.

[Larks]

Re the jib halyard: This is as clear a photo as I can find but it shows mine with a turning block at the mast as part of the same fitting as the forestay mast attachment The cable part hanking on to the sail and the line coming down to the deck for hauling.

[IMG]IMG_0708 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

[Willywaw]

My two cents worth ....

Greg's approach of lashing the forestay is the most practical... turnbuckles, chains etc are overkill on a boat this size. A spectra lashing allows you to stand the mast up without having to deal with shackle pins or clevis pins that get dropped (and lost) when you are trying to keep tension on the forestay at the same time.

Your jib appears to have a luff wire. This will just be tacked to the bow fitting using the clevis pin. The peak should be connected to the halyard by a captive pin shackle (a Ronstan RF1032 is a good 'un). The wire halyard goes through the block up the mast and is pulled down by the attached rope tail. The tail gets passed around the bottom of the cleat on the mast, passed through the block and then sweated down and cleated. The tail is then bunched up and jammed between the mast and the halyard for storage. You do not want the halyard to go to a deck or mast step fixture us this will be just something else that needs to be attached/detached on rigging/unrigging...this is a trailersailer and not a keelboat that has its stick up full time.

Sailing upwind you will find the leeward stay to be loose, so guess what will happen if you use those hook ended turnbuckles on your stays! I would strongly suggest you replace the stays with correct length ones. 3.2mm wire at around $6 per metre is cheap insurance and will give you one less thing to worry about in a blow. The side stays can be left permanently attached to the chainplates, with the mast down and pushed forward for transport just lash them to the mast to stop them falling overboard.

Keep the setup as simple as possible to make rigging/unrigging as quick and hassle free as possible...going sailing's more fun that way!

[Besserwisser]

Yup, keep it simple. We'd use something like 2mm or 3mm spectra for the forestay and loop it several times. It jams into itself at the turns and is as tight and secure as you'd need it, even before tying off.

For cruising, even easier. I'd run it through a block at the peak & cleat it off on the cabin top - easy to walk the stick up and easy to walk it down again.

I also endorse Willy's advice both on the jib halyard and side stays - the latter need only a shackle and thereafter forgotten.

It really is just a dinghy with a cabin.

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[hereselmo1]

My two cents worth ....


Your jib appears to have a luff wire. This will just be tacked to the bow fitting using the clevis pin. The peak should be connected to the halyard by a captive pin shackle (a Ronstan RF1032 is a good 'un). The wire halyard goes through the block up the mast and is pulled down by the attached rope tail. The tail gets passed around the bottom of the cleat on the mast, passed through the block and then sweated down and cleated. The tail is then bunched up and jammed between the mast and the halyard for storage. You do not want the halyard to go to a deck or mast step fixture us this will be just something else that needs to be attached/detached on rigging/unrigging...this is a trailersailer and not a keelboat that has its stick up full time.

Thanks for the very detailed reply.

This makes sense.

Except for 2 things

1. The wire with the block reaches down to below the level of the top of the cabin. As you can see in that pic it has already gone past the cleat, been wrapped around it a few time and still had length left over. So the tail couldn't come up to meet it. ( I assume that cleat visible on the side of the mast is the one you meant.

Is it possible that the wire that's there is actually for the mainsail halyard and is just in the wrong spot? We have nothing on the main sail side ATM.

2. The tail seems very thin to be using to lash the jib.

Sailing upwind you will find the leeward stay to be loose, so guess what will happen if you use those hook ended turnbuckles on your stays! I would strongly suggest you replace the stays with correct length ones. 3.2mm wire at around $6 per metre is cheap insurance and will give you one less thing to worry about in a blow. The side stays can be left permanently attached to the chainplates, with the mast down and pushed forward for transport just lash them to the mast to stop them falling overboard.

This makes sense. I'm definitely replacing the turnbuckles with something that is not a hook and is a lot stronger.

I'm still using and aging about replacing the stays instead.

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[hereselmo1]

Yup, keep it simple. We'd use something like 2mm or 3mm spectra for the forestay and loop it several times. It jams into itself at the turns and is as tight and secure as you'd need it, even before tying off.

For cruising, even easier. I'd run it through a block at the peak & cleat it off on the cabin top - easy to walk the stick up and easy to walk it down again.

I also endorse Willy's advice both on the jib halyard and side stays - the latter need only a shackle and thereafter forgotten.

It really is just a dinghy with a cabin.

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What knots would you use at the start and the end of the spectra?

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[hereselmo1]

Meanwhile. Handles, cleats and windows

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[Besserwisser]

What knots would you use at the start and the end of the spectra?

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Bowline & half hitches is what I'd use..but everyone has their faves.

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[Willywaw]

"Is it possible that the wire that's there is actually for the mainsail halyard and is just in the wrong spot? We have nothing on the main sail side ATM."

Possible, but without sighting what other fittings are on the mast it's a bit hard to tell. But as Greg said earlier, it's best to not repeat others mistakes!

This is the setup I was trying to describe, a similar halyard arrangement can be used for the mainsail as well. As you won't be restricted by class rules you can make the halyards out of the appropriate flavour of spectra/dyneema rather than wire.
Jib001.jpg

It's a pity that Ronstan no longer publish rigging guides for the popular classes, they were tres useful. I guess that with so few people building or rigging their own boats these days there is no longer a need.

[Besserwisser]

It pays to keep in mind that there's likely always a better way of doing something; options and experiment is where a lot of the fun of boating lies (when not constrained by class rules).

As a starting point, I imagine the OP is familiar with the setup hints in the class webpage; it's worth a look: http://www.australianhartleyts16.org...ng/setup-hints

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[hereselmo1]

"Is it possible that the wire that's there is actually for the mainsail halyard and is just in the wrong spot? We have nothing on the main sail side ATM."

Possible, but without sighting what other fittings are on the mast it's a bit hard to tell. But as Greg said earlier, it's best to not repeat others mistakes!

This is the setup I was trying to describe, a similar halyard arrangement can be used for the mainsail as well. As you won't be restricted by class rules you can make the halyards out of the appropriate flavour of spectra/dyneema rather than wire.
Jib001.jpg

It's a pity that Ronstan no longer publish rigging guides for the popular classes, they were tres useful. I guess that with so few people building or rigging their own boats these days there is no longer a need.

Thats a great diagram thank you and that's exactly what I got from your excellent description.

The wire I have is far too long for that.

The block on the end of the wire would cone right down below the cleat and actually comfortably touch the deck.

I'm going to replace this wire with Spectra and right it exactly how you have described.

Then see how the wire looks on the other side

I'll take a decent pic of all the fittings hopefully tomorrow afternoon.

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[Larks]

Thanks for the very detailed reply.

This makes sense.

Except for 2 things

1. The wire with the block reaches down to below the level of the top of the cabin. As you can see in that pic it has already gone past the cleat, been wrapped around it a few time and still had length left over. So the tail couldn't come up to meet it. ( I assume that cleat visible on the side of the mast is the one you meant.

Is it possible that the wire that's there is actually for the mainsail halyard and is just in the wrong spot? We have nothing on the main sail side ATM.

Without some clearer photos we are all somewhat guessing at what is going on with the rig that you have, but if that line and cable arrangement is intended for the jib halyard it should only reach from the turning block on the mast (if it is similar to mine at the same height as the stay attachments on the mast) down to just above the cleat on the mast so that the halyard can be secured by the softer line to the cleat.

If that’s not the case, measure it against the mast down to the boom - if it is the correct length for the mainsail it will run from the top of the mast down to just above a turning block at the base of the mast that will direct the halyard line (not the wire) out from the inside of the mast so that it can be taken up to a cleat on the mast to be secured.


But why not start from scratch and throw away the cable halyards that you don’t fully understand (and which may have sharp little wire ends along them where they’ve been damaged) and use new Spectra lines throughout to suit what you need.

I kept the jib halyard cable length on my Hartley because it was in good condition and didn’t need replacing but I fitted a full Spectra mainsail halyard and a different coloured Spectra jib halyard extension to the jib halyard cable length.


Edited to add - it looks like I was writing while you were posting and you are onto it anyway

[hereselmo1]

My only reservation with totally throwing away the wire was the cost of changing the blocks

I haven't quite worked out how the main halyard goes through the mast yet so that description is helpful.

I'll have to have a good look at the plans and the mast this week.

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[hereselmo1]

On a slightly unrelated note.

How do these work?

Do you need eyelets in the jib?

I've got one but mine seems more closed at the non clip end.

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[Slacko]

Yes, you need eyelets on the jib for those hanks.
The eyelet end gets hammered closed once it is fitted.
Stainless would be better than the brass ones that usually break off when you try to remove them from a sail for reuse or when you try to close it again on the new sail.

[hereselmo1]

Yes, you need eyelets on the jib for those hanks.
The eyelet end gets hammered closed once it is fitted.
Stainless would be better than the brass ones that usually break off when you try to remove them from a sail for reuse or when you try to close it again on the new sail.

Cheers. Are there alternatives for jibs without eyelets?

If I used the plastic twist on hanks could I fit the screw into the seam without an eyelet or is that just asking for trouble?

Also how many would I need?

Is every 300mm too much?



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[Andrew Donald]

Elmo in #72 you show a stern light fitted in place of the rod-holder, does run off batteries? Can you tell me what brand and where you got it please?

[hereselmo1]

Elmo in #72 you show a stern light fitted in place of the rod-holder, does run off batteries? Can you tell me what brand and where you got it please?

Yeah its a Railblaza kit. And yes it runs off of batteries.

The ports can accept a whole bunch of stuff.

I got a kit with the stern light the front red/green light and the extension to make the stern light a masthead light. Then I bought the rod holders separately

https://www.boatingcentral.com.au/products/04-4092-11?utm_source=Google.com.au+sf&utm_medium=Google+Shopping+sf&utm_campaign=Google+Shopping+sf&variant=40334846918739&cmp_id=19220506270&adg_id=&kwd=&device=m&gclid=CjwKCAiAxP2eBhBiEiwA5puhNfqCPMCDZuf-0nrGiganGD044JgGOspkDPrsCQuCcW796EnQXMsMJhoCIE4QAv D_BwE

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[Andrew Donald]

Thanks I’ll check it out