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Thread: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

  1. #1
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    Default The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    We have been building this for a LONG time.

    I had been posting about it on another woodworking forum that is now not getting much attention. I am not sure if I am allowed to post a link to that here? Anyway here are a few pick to start with.

    53.jpg61.jpg

    p.s. how do I rotate pics?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    Rotate them on your phone/computer, even if they are upright on your device, save, then post.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    Looking very nice Elmo, good to see you posting over here. Are you going to need to cover that lovely paintwork to protect it from all of the inevitable knocks and bangs from swinging tools and timber as you finish your fit out.

    Shouldn’t be any problem posting a link to the Woodworking forum, many here have links to their web sites, blogs etc in their signature lines..
    Larks

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    Will you continue on the AU Woodworking forum? Wouldn’t like to see you leave there - there’s not many of us!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    Beautiful! Looking forward to following along.

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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    Very nice. Remember: half the fun of a wooden boat is the joy and satisfaction of building it.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
    Skiing is the next best thing to having wings.

  7. #7
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    The inside is slowly taking shape.

    P.s. here is the link to previous pics.

    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ewoodworkforums%2Ecom %2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D107657&share_tid=107657&share_fid=10646&share_type=t&link_source=app

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    Some more work on her today.

    Can anyone tell me why the hole in the centreboard case is 3/(20mm) whilst the hole in the centreboard is 7/8 (22mm)?

    Should I just make the bolt 7/8 (22mm) or is there a reason that slack needs to be there??

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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    Looking good Elmo!

    Good decision on the floor bearer orientation.
    “Perpetual optimism is a force to live by.”

    Colin Powell

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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    Other than the CB moving freely on the CB pin while the pin can sit firmly in the case hole I don’t think the CB hole sizes are too important really, they just need to suit whatever you’re using for a CB pin and mounting set up.

    For what it’s worth I modified mine so that I could remove the pin and centreboard without having to deconstruct anything, as I had to previously.

    Basically a couple of plumbing fittings that I can unscrew to pull the 316SS pin out - not an ideal mix of metals for salt water but she lives on a trailer and I'd hose her down well after sailing so no real dramas expected, plus I can replace them easily enough if/when they corrode.



    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...hlight=hartley

    My Hartley was built in about 1967, hull number 110, and was built very solidly to last as she has done, but the centreboard hole is no longer any resemblance to what it probably was at the start and I modified the case hole to suit my mounting set up, which is why I make the comment that I don’t think their sizes are too important.
    Larks

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Other than the CB moving freely on the CB pin while the pin can sit firmly in the case hole I don’t think the CB hole sizes are too important really, they just need to suit whatever you’re using for a CB pin and mounting set up.

    For what it’s worth I modified mine so that I could remove the pin and centreboard without having to deconstruct anything, as I had to previously.

    Basically a couple of plumbing fittings that I can unscrew to pull the 316SS pin out - not an ideal mix of metals for salt water but she lives on a trailer and I'd hose her down well after sailing so no real dramas expected, plus I can replace them easily enough if/when they corrode.



    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...hlight=hartley

    My Hartley was built in about 1967, hull number 110, and was built very solidly to last as she has done, but the centreboard hole is no longer any resemblance to what it probably was at the start and I modified the case hole to suit my mounting set up, which is why I make the comment that I don’t think their sizes are too important.
    I'm to worried about how big the holes are, just whether they need to match.

    Having a 3/4 bolt in a 7/8 centreboard hole seems like it would allow too much movement and damage the inside of the centreboard but I could be way off.

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  12. #12
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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    You just want the CB plate to raise and lower easily without binding, you don’t want the CB pin tight in the CB itself.

    And it’s not like it’s going to be a heavy wear item. The CB will sit pretty well on its pin at whatever level it’s lowered to given that it also has lateral force of the plate against the CB slot - unless you’re running dead down wind or motoring, though in either case you’ll probably have the plate up anyway.....
    Larks

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    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
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    Thank you Larks!!

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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    Quote Originally Posted by hereselmo1 View Post
    Some more work on her today.

    Can anyone tell me why the hole in the centreboard case is 3/(20mm) whilst the hole in the centreboard is 7/8 (22mm)?

    Should I just make the bolt 7/8 (22mm) or is there a reason that slack needs to be there??
    My theory on this is that as the board needs to be a slightly loose fit in the case, when sailing it must get pushed to one side, effectively pivoting slightly off vertical and bearing against the bottom edge of the case on one side, and somewhere inside the case at the top of the board on the other side. If it's a loose fit on the pin, none of this force is applied to the pivot.
    If it is a tight fit on the pin though, as the board trys to go sideways, that force will either be trying to slog out the hole in the board, or turn the pin into a pretzel.
    If this doesn't make sense, draw a bow-on picture of the board case and pivot pin, to help visualise what happens as the board gets loaded up sideways.

    Pete
    Last edited by epoxyboy; 07-11-2020 at 02:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by epoxyboy View Post
    My theory on this is that as the board needs to be a slightly loose fit in the case, when sailing it must get pushed to one side, effectively pivoting slightly off vertical and bearing against the bottom edge of the case on one side, and somewhere inside the case at the top of the board on the other side. If it's a loose fit on the pin, none of this force is applied to the pivot.
    If it is a tight fit on the pin though, as the board trys to go sideways, that force will either be trying to slog out the hole in the board, or turn the pin into a pretzel.
    If this doesn't make sense, draw a bow-on picture of the board case and pivot pin, to help visualise what happens as the board gets loaded up sideways.

    Pete
    I'm not sure I get it but I believe you

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  16. #16
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    Some trim.

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    Some flooring and the king plank of the foredeck.

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    Some flooring, some decking and the opening for the cabin.

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    We angled the seating to create a wider seat without losing leg room.

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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    Great progress, looking good.
    Larks

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  21. #21
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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    Very nice looking build! Regarding the centreboard pin, when there's any decent breeze the pressure of the board against the water and the sides of the case hold the board still, but I find going upwind in really light air very annoying... the hole (an epoxied-in bronze bushing) in my board is a bit oversized (like your dimensions indicate), and it slops side to side if there's any swell or boat wake... kerklunk, kerklunk... I cringe on every klunk, imagining the epoxy failing, or the bushing distorting, or some sort of horrible damage!

    Cheers, Dale

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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    I built a TS16 years ago when we lived in Melbourne - great boats & well designed. I now build glued clinker boats.

    Just one question - have you remembered to put limber holes in the floors where the floor meets the keelson? It's a good idea for bilge water to be able to flow to the lowest point in the hull. Have fun with the build and look forward to seeing her on the water :-)

  23. #23
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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    Quote Originally Posted by neil.henderson View Post

    Just one question - have you remembered to put limber holes in the floors where the floor meets the keelson? It's a good idea for bilge water to be able to flow to the lowest point in the hull. Have fun with the build and look forward to seeing her on the water :-)



    looks good to me....



    one thing that I added to my old girl though that I found very useful and if it’s of any interest to you: was to tip the boat up on its trailer until the transom sat on the ground, prop the drawbar with a length of wood and lay a pool of thickened epoxy along the battens/ribs at the transom so that when I hose her out anything can run along the battens and flow over them easily where they join the transom and then it all just runs out the bung holes.

    After every trip I’d generally stand her up like that with the drawbar of the trailer propped and wash/hose at least the cockpit out while also washing done the wheels and axles.

    [IMG]IMG_0890 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]
    Last edited by Larks; 08-18-2020 at 01:29 AM.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
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    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post



    looks good to me....



    one thing that I added to my old girl though that I found very useful and if it’s of any interest to you: was to tip the boat up on its trailer until the transom sat on the ground, prop the drawbar with a length of wood and lay a pool of thickened epoxy along the battens/ribs at the transom so that when I hose her out anything can run along the battens and flow over them easily where they join the transom and then it all just runs out the bung holes.

    After every trip I’d generally stand her up like that with the drawbar of the trailer propped and wash/hose at least the cockpit out while also washing done the wheels and axles.

    [IMG]IMG_0890 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]
    Thats an interesting tip.

    Did you not have a floor or was it floating?

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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    Can anyone tell me where to get a metal mastbstep to suit this mast?
    20211130_131838.jpg
    I know I can build a wooden one but after seeing the state of the one on the boat we got the mast off of I would.prefer metal.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    Looking very nice. I wish the inside of my hull looked that clean.
    without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.

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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    Quote Originally Posted by hereselmo1 View Post
    Can anyone tell me where to get a metal mastbstep to suit this mast?

    I know I can build a wooden one but after seeing the state of the one on the boat we got the mast off of I would.prefer metal.
    Interesting looking base to a mast - do you have a photo of what the original mast step looked like? I’m thinking that you’ll need to get one fabricated.

    Also my apologies, I missed your reply from last year - yes the cockpit does have sole boards, this was just what I did under them to let water and any crud run over the longitudinal hull frames freely. The sole boards just sit loosely onto their frames and so they lift out easily for access underneath.
    Larks

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    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  28. #28
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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    Thanks mate. I'll take a pic and post it.

    I am thinking of building a wooden one like Geary did on his ts14.

    Also can anyone give me tips on bouyancy.

    How many litres of sealed plastic bottles.would.make 0.3 cubic metres? Is that 300L?

    What is the equivalent in Styrofoam?

    How many pool noodles would it be if I went that way?
    Last edited by hereselmo1; 12-02-2021 at 09:33 PM.

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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    If you are worried about buoyancy consider building in watertight compartments rather than littering the boat with bottles, foam or pool noodles. A glassed in and essentially watertight compartment with a spinout for access will give you some storage and will be as buoyant as anything that you can stuff into it.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
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    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  30. #30
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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    The boat is looking fine!
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Interesting looking base to a mast - do you have a photo of what the original mast step looked like? I’m thinking that you’ll need to get one fabricated.

    Also my apologies, I missed your reply from last year - yes the cockpit does have sole boards, this was just what I did under them to let water and any crud run over the longitudinal hull frames freely. The sole boards just sit loosely onto their frames and so they lift out easily for access underneath.
    Sorry for the delay.

    Here's the original @larks . You can see why we thought metal instead of wood might be the go...

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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    I’d take that and the mast into a local fabricator and get an aluminium one welded up to suit - there is no “off the shelf” mast step that you can buy and this should be a very simple and cheap fabrication for any workshop. (I say take the mast so that they can get the measurements correct but if you can do an accurate sketch with all of the dimensions that could be enough.)

    Here’s a very cropped photo from my TS16 mast step if it helps (before I sold the boat - and embarrassingly showing a lot of mould on the cabin top from being under a tarp). It’s a very simple aluminium base with a pin to hold the mast and allow it to pivot as it is raised - screwed down to a piece of hardwood to spread the load over two frames. It’s all you need and if you seal the wood with something like Everdure and paint it you won’t have any rot problems:

    [IMG]IMG_0396 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]


    PS: The base of my mast was quite different - it had about a 6mm to 8mm aluminium plate welded to the base that sat on the mast step (once up) and a cheek either side at the aft end with a hole in each cheek that the retaining pin went through. So fully supported on the mast step once up rather than all of the weight and pressure from the shrouds sitting on the bolt, as appears to be the case with yours. I’ll see if I can find a photo of the whole set up and get back to you, I think it’d be more stable when raising the mast than the set up that you have, which would allow the mast to easily fall sideways as it goes up. It wouldn’t be hard to modify the base of your mast and have it married to the step at the same time as the step is fabricated.

    Good luck with it and cheers
    Greg
    Last edited by Larks; 12-06-2021 at 06:51 PM.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  33. #33
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    Default

    Thanks mate.

    P.s. rookie question.

    When you raise the mast on the TS16.

    With the mast base goes in the bolt which way is the mast lying?

    Does it lie over the stern of the boat and get raised up that way?

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  34. #34
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    Pps looking at these mast bases's and steps available from the association I dont get how the mast base fits into the step?

    http://www.australianhartleyts16.org...st-of-fittings

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  35. #35
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    Default Re: The Jealousy. A very slow TS16

    These are actually what I had - I didn’t realise the association had them for sale. The first one fits into the base of the mast itself (provided that your mast is the same profile - though you could likely get your mast base modified easily enough to suit the profile of the fitting) and the second one is the step that goes on the cabin top. What is missing in both are the holes for the pin that goes through the base and the step and forms the pivot point for the mast as it goes up.






    You’d raise the mast from the stern up - I had a prop' that fitted easily to the transom brace that both supported the mast while in transit (trailering) and was just far enough aft that it balanced the mast in place when I moved it back to line up the mast base with the step to pin it in place. It can just be a length of timber but I used some aluminium tube that could telescope out to hold the boom up and lay a tarp over it as a boom tent, (the fitting that held the telescoped tube in place also had a tricky little hook that I’d use for a solar lamp). When not extended the prop' was the same height as the mast step so that the mast sat horizontal while trailering.:

    [IMG]DSC_0146 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]


    Raising the mast was relatively easy and I generally preferred to do it by myself and I used the ladder rack or roof rack on my ute to help - this is pretty much how I did it alone:

    - Move the mast back in the prop' to line up the mast base with the mast step and fit the pivot/holding pin

    - Connect the side stays to the chain plates (I just used D shackles) and make sure that they are clear of anything that they can snag on

    - Take the forestay forward over the cabin, tie an extension line to the end of it long enough to lead it further forward around a ladder rack/roof rack bar on my vehicle and back to the cockpit (or to a partner helping you raise the mast if you do have help)

    - Stand in the cockpit and start raising the mast while taking up the slack on the forestay extension line and keeping an eye on the side stays to make sure they don’t snag or kink

    - Move forward raising the mast until you have to stand on the cabin roof to finish raising it (this is where the extension to the forestay starts to come in handy as it helps you control the mast while you clamber up)

    - Even though the base of the mast is pinned it will still want to flop sideways until it is fully up and held vertical by the side stays (and the forestay that you are still holding onto) so keep control of it - the pinned base helps but the weight of the mast while going up would have enough leverage to rip the step out of the deck if it does flop sideways until the stays have it under control. If the side stays are set at the proper length they will tension properly as you take up the tension on the forestay.

    - Fasten your forestay to the bow chainplate fitting - I just had a length of line about 1200mm long that I looped a few times around a D shackle on both the forestay and the chainplate before tying it off to itself. The looped line would have been about 200mm long once tied and I was able to get sufficient tension just with that so never bothered with anything like a highfield lever.

    I hope that helps but feel free to ask anything else if I can help.
    Last edited by Larks; 12-06-2021 at 10:25 PM.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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