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Thread: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

  1. #1
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    Default New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    Good day all - well after a lifetime of boating in vessels of plastic and tin, Iíve come rather unexpectedly and suddenly to wooden boat ownership. Close family friends have gifted me this attractive little day sailer and Iím rather smitten...
    Everyone, meet Escape...Escape, this is
    everyone.

    Iím told itís a Norberg (sp?) and was built in the 1950s out of mahogany. Last night I turned a hose on her to begin the swelling up process prior to launching and it was like rain coming down underneath. Letís hope she tightens considerably from her current state.


    I do have a question about construction. As you can see there are no ribs, and as far as I can tell sheís not cold molded from multiple layers of angled veneers - just single strips of planking several inches wide. So....how is she fastened?? Surely not nailed edge-wise all the way through the width of each plank into its neighbour as someone suggested to me?


    I ask because it looks like a few planks will need replacement either side of the centerboard box...but how to get them out from between their mates? And new ones in?


    All thoughts welcome!

    B0F27569-F561-4CA0-A32F-25A8BF3D54A2.jpg50741DC2-E3C3-4079-8614-EAFE8BBC4E56.jpg70F3EA0C-4C56-46E1-A876-0B4B7DB7750B.jpg9B326D04-8BE7-4A9A-8392-7AEBB1D1B94D.jpgC5749E57-BD98-4F4B-8A89-AD642761BAA5.jpg

  2. #2
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    Either edge glued or edge nailed, or maybe both. Defective planks will need to be cut out and new ones can be glued in with epoxy.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    Thanks for the quick reply, Brian. Ok so edge nailing is a thing. And epoxied replacement planks will be secured strongly enough without nails as there’s no way to edge nail a middle plank? (forgive me I’m going to be doing a lot of learning next little while...)
    Last edited by scoutabout; 07-04-2020 at 07:10 AM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    She's very pretty!
    She's not molded or double planked? The plank lines inside match the ones outside, single planking?
    My boat is strip planked with edge nails and glued strips. A few years back she needed some replacement of strips. Where possible, they were edge nailed. The last couple closing the hole could not be, and were glued in with epoxy. Still good as new.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    Thank you for weighing in, johng- and yes I love her lines too and try to imagine what adventures are represented by each patch, dent, and scuff.
    As far as I can tell there’s one layer of planking I.e. inside piece is the outside piece...

    I’ve read a number of threads just in the last hour on edge nailed construction/restoration and have a better understanding of it now. It’s going to be a steep learning curve getting to know and care for this seventy plus year-old gal...but I’m looking forward to it!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    Welcome!
    That is a pretty little daysailor.
    The construction has me somewhat stumped. Even strip planked boats have some ribs in then (as is John's in post #4). Nowadays, people build boats with strips and no ribs, but they are all covered inside and out with fiberglass. Obviously, that is not the case here.
    So, to me, your boat is a mystery.
    Just how wide are the planks? I'm thinking they have to be edge nailed and glued to achieve any strength.
    Regardless, the fix should be pretty straight forward if you have carpentry skills. Easy enough for those of us with boat building skills. It all depends on your skill level.
    Cut out the bad areas and scarf in new sections of plank. The beauty of working with epoxy is that you can fill in any imperfect seams with thickened epoxy, especially where it won't show. So, your seams need not be as perfect as we see on the rest of the boat.
    Even if the repair isn't pretty, it's below the waterline and under the floorboards, so invisible to those onboard.
    What shape are the spars and sails in?
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    Lets see these few bad planks by the CB trunk.
    Hold off on cutting bits out of her for a little while.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    Thanks very much Rich.

    Planks look to be be as follows with the one just under the gunwale narrower....
    837BCC10-0C37-4987-A755-7760FD6B1FC8.jpg90E9AD05-C6AF-4E14-BC30-F649656A3817.jpg

    As for skill - I’m about at the backyard deck and living room hardwood install level. My son and I are embarking on a small hydroplane build so drilling, clamping and sanding are coming along... Never scarfed anything before...No epoxy or varnish experience...

    Spars look good, still looking for the sails...

  9. #9
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Lets see these few bad planks by the CB trunk.
    Hold off on cutting bits out of her for a little while.
    Thanks wiz - definitely will hold off on cutting anything for a bit.

    Worst parts seem below. Varnish easily scraped away when wetted with water.

    9C978FBC-484C-4B10-8D3A-6DE5DFEBFCDF.jpg
    Kitchen knife sunk to this point with moderate pressure

    3726FBB0-9014-4817-9535-5A01C29C0AF0.jpg

    To a depth of what you see of the point protruding past the deck hardware
    EBE3AB3A-A497-4EEF-817A-FE9CDFA2B809.jpg

    My understanding is is that she’s been sailed in this condition for years. Thank you all for your interest and advice!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    Quote Originally Posted by scoutabout View Post

    My understanding is is that she’s been sailed in this condition for years. Thank you all for your interest and advice!
    I would put her in the water and mark every seam that leaks.
    Then I would dry her out completely, strip the varnish from leaky seams and soft planks.
    Then I would scrape out the leaky seams to sound wood and reglue with epoxy. Kerfing with a saw blade in a Multitool would do it.
    If any of the planks are too soft too far through replace them.
    Then revarnish and use her.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    Quote Originally Posted by scoutabout View Post
    Thanks wiz - definitely will hold off on cutting anything for a bit.

    Worst parts seem below. Varnish easily scraped away when wetted with water.

    9C978FBC-484C-4B10-8D3A-6DE5DFEBFCDF.jpg
    Kitchen knife sunk to this point with moderate pressure

    3726FBB0-9014-4817-9535-5A01C29C0AF0.jpg

    To a depth of what you see of the point protruding past the deck hardware
    EBE3AB3A-A497-4EEF-817A-FE9CDFA2B809.jpg

    My understanding is is that she’s been sailed in this condition for years. Thank you all for your interest and advice!

    I don't think that is too bad. Now, if the knife went all the way through, that would be different. Scrape the funky varnish away and let it dry indoors for a few weeks and you'll get a better sense of things. The end of the floor that butts against the centerboard trunk looks worse, but they should be easy to replace.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    Late day update. The water leaking through has definitely slowed from almost soaker shower head rush to occasional drip.

    BTW - this has been exclusively a freshwater vessel enduring the humid summers and cold dry winters of central Ontario. Lots of expansion and contraction over many years I would imagine...

  13. #13
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    I'd like that black tube goo removed.
    That little bit of knife point....meh.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    Launch her. Walk around inside on the soft spot. If nothing gives way, sail her this season and fix it next winter. A boat like this during this covid time is a real gift.

    What at are the dimensions? The pictures make her look narrow, perhaps tippy.

    BTW, a bit of car antifreeze in the bilge after each sail will stop further rot. It won't fix anything, but it's toxic to mold.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hadfield View Post
    Launch her. Walk around inside on the soft spot. If nothing gives way, sail her this season and fix it next winter. A boat like this during this covid time is a real gift.

    What at are the dimensions? The pictures make her look narrow, perhaps tippy.

    BTW, a bit of car antifreeze in the bilge after each sail will stop further rot. It won't fix anything, but it's toxic to mold.
    I would not put antifreeze into a leaky boat because it is extremely toxic to animals (e.g., dogs and cats, small children) could get onto the ground. It also has a sweet taste that attracts them to eat or drink it.
    The material used in museums to stabilize old wood is not antifreeze. It is polyethylene glycol, not ethylene glycol (e.g., look up what was done with the Vasa).
    Antifreeze is also going to make it harder to have something adhere to the existing wood in the future.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Palmer View Post
    I would not put antifreeze into a leaky boat because it is extremely toxic to animals (e.g., dogs and cats, small children) could get onto the ground. It also has a sweet taste that attracts them to eat or drink it.
    The material used in museums to stabilize old wood is not antifreeze. It is polyethylene glycol, not ethylene glycol (e.g., look up what was done with the Vasa).
    Antifreeze is also going to make it harder to have something adhere to the existing wood in the future.
    Just so. Sprinkle borax in the bilge, either Timbor or Polybore. The water in the wood will draw it down into the timber, it is toxic to fungus but not to animals.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    I didn't mean a gallon! I meant a squirt! That's all it takes to kill fungus because it's hygroscopic -- seeks out water.

    Sure, Timbor can sometimes be found in Canada at HD or Lowes

    If I'm leaving Drake for a week or more once the harbour water has warmed up, I put a few squirts in her bilges. Otherwise smelly slime grows in there in the heat. The dilution is very thin.

    Dogs and kids dont usually line up to drink Drake's bilgewater.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    ^Ethylene glycol antifreeze is a fungicide, but not all antifreeze is ethylene glycol. If you are going down that route, read the label on the can.
    I would do a test piece, and then check that your varnish will stick, as the two might not be compatible.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  19. #19
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    I agree that the tiny bit of knife penetrating the plank is not an emergency.
    1-1/4" is the same as the strips on my boat, which are also 1-1/4" thick.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    Thanks for the advice all - will look into the various fungicide options. Sounds like a promising stop gap.

    As for dimensions, Dave H - she's 16 feet x 5'10" give or take at the widest point. Centreboard is a great slab of steel plate - hopefully will keep help keep her scurvy side down...


    As as for planking, 1 1/4 square sounds nice and beefy, johng - assuming the stern of this boat is similar to the rest of the hull I can probably measure the depth of the bilge drain tube to get a close estimate of plank thickness. Either that or build a gigantic set of outside calipers...

  21. #21
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hadfield View Post
    ....A boat like this during this covid time is a real gift....
    Truer words! I feel utterly fortunate to have this boat find me this past weekend and to be the beneficiary of our friends' generosity. And all the crawling and poking about these last couple days completely distracted me from these crazy times we are living in. Escape has truly lived up to her name and I've yet to splash her flanks!

  22. #22
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    Not skinny at all then.

    Sail it.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hadfield View Post
    Not skinny at all then.

    Sail it.
    And so I did. Herewith A quick clip of Escape with water under her bilges once again (as well as plenty within..). With apologies for rigging and sail setting gaffs....haha geddit?

    As suggested we're going to spend the remainder of the season getting to know each other's secrets, then dive into the issues. Thanks all for your ideas and encouragement.


  24. #24
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    Sweet!

  25. #25
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    Default Re: New guy and a question - How is this boat fastened?

    In the fifties, there were lots of hot molded boats built. Iíd double-check that plank widths match inside and outside or try to expose the edge of the hull shell.

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