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Thread: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

  1. #36
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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by peb
    Indeed, very, very few voters had their decision affected by Russian propaganda.
    You think not, eh? Here are examples of the Russian propaganda interference in the 2016 presidential election:

    Thirteen Russian nationals have been charged with illegally trying to disrupt the American political process, according to an indictment filed by Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel investigating Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election.

    Here are the tools the Russians used:

    Fraudulent Social Media Accounts

    According to the indictment, the defendants and their co-conspirators created hundreds of social media accounts impersonating real and fictitious Americans — and they paid for ads promoting their posts.

    The Russians in the indictment acted as an organization, and employees who ran the accounts were directed to create “political intensity through supporting radical groups” and to criticize Hillary Clinton, but not Donald J. Trump or Bernie Sanders.


    Many fraudulent accounts have been taken down, but Tennessee GOP, an account created by the Russian organization, was partially archived.



    Many posts by the accounts addressed religion and were critical of Muslims.


    The accounts focused on issues like immigration, the Black Lives Matter movement and religion. Some were used to encourage minority groups not to vote or to promote accusations that the Democratic Party engaged in voter fraud.


    Other fraudulent accounts, like “South United” and “Heart of Texas,” took on a geographic identity.


    In an email written to a family member, a Russian defendant, Irina Viktorovna Kaverzina, explained: “I created all these pictures and posts, and the Americans believed that it was written by their people.”

    Political Rallies




    A post by March for Trump, a Twitter account run by the Russian organization, was retweeted by Tennessee GOP, another account run by the organization.


    The indictment says that the organization staged several political rallies across the country from June to November 2016. Members of the group promoted the events through their social media channels and used accounts registered under false American personas to recruit volunteers.

    2016 rallies planned and promoted by the organization:


    • June 25: March for Trump New York
    • July 9: Support Hillary. Save American Muslims Washington, D.C.
    • July 23: Down with Hillary New York
    • Aug. 20: Florida Goes Trump several Florida cities
    • Oct. 2: Miners for Trump several Pennsylvania cities
    • Nov. 12: Show your support for President-Elect Donald Trump New York
    • Nov. 12: Trump is NOT my President New York
    • Nov. 19: Charlotte Against Trump Charlotte, N.C.


    The social media accounts were sometimes used to contact and coordinate with local Trump campaign staff members. In June 2016, a volunteer for the Trump campaign agreed to provide signs for a “March For Trump” rally staged by the organization. The indictment does not allege that any Americans knowingly conspired with the group.



    The indictment says that “Matt Skiber” was one of the false United States personas used by the organization to recruit rally attendees.

    In some cases, the organization offered money to rally attendees for expenses. For one of several “Florida Goes Trump” rallies held in August 2016, the organization paid an individual to portray Mrs. Clinton in a prison uniform in a cage built on a flatbed truck.

    The group also purchased advertisements to promote the rallies. The indictment said that Facebook ads for the Florida rallies reached more than 59,000 users and were clicked on by more than 8,300.

    Multiple tweets from Florida rallies on Aug. 20, 2016 mentioned the group’s March for Trump account.

    In addition to the pro-Trump rallies it staged before and after the election, the group also organized anti-Trump rallies, including “Charlotte Against Trump” in Charlotte, N.C., and “Trump is NOT my President” in New York after the election.

    Online Political Advertisements

    The indictment says that from April to November 2016, the group paid for advertisements on social media and elsewhere that expressly advocated for Mr. Trump or opposed Mrs. Clinton.

    This advertisement from the group’s “Army of Jesus” page was released in November by the House Intelligence Committee along with other samples of Russian-purchased ads.


    The defendants did not file those expenditures with the Federal Election Commission, although as foreign nationals, they would have been prohibited from making them in the first place.

    The document also notes that the defendants did not register as foreign agents with the Justice Department, which is required “so that the U.S. government and the people of the United States are informed of the source of information and the identity of persons attempting to influence U.S. public opinion, policy, and law.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...tion-2016.html



    Last edited by Tom Montgomery; 08-07-2020 at 02:15 PM.
    "We have come to live in a society based on insults, on lies and on things that just aren't true. It creates an environment where deranged people feel empowered." -- Colin Powell, 10/30/18

  2. #37
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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    You think not, eh? Here are examples of the Russian propaganda interference in the 2016 presidential election:





    That proves nothing. I readily admit that the Russians put out a lot of propaganda in the hopes of affecting the election towards Trump. I will tell you, the only people who that effected were already hard-core Trumpists. That's it. No on on the left was affected, and very, very few in the middle were affected by it. The only people who followed those fake news items which were so blatantly absurd were the people who were yelling the loudest for Trump from the very beginning. I used to get sent links to them in emails from friends and family. Without fail, they only came from the Trumpists, and I mean the hard core Trumpists.


    I stand by my statement: very, very few voters had their decision swayed by the Russian propaganda. Very, very few. I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary. As someone on the left, you may want to believe that everyone who voted for Trump were duped by the Russians, it explains your loss. But if they were duped, it was only by Trump with regards to himself.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    ^ You are assuming that all of those ads were as overt as the ones cited, or that the intended audience was not gullible or, to be blunt, stupid.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Dryfoot View Post
    ^ You are assuming that all of those ads were as overt as the ones cited, or that the intended audience was not gullible or, to be blunt, stupid.
    Or that they paid no attention when their "he's the smart one" brother in law forwarded one of these Facebook things on.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  5. #40
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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Dryfoot View Post
    ^ You are assuming that all of those ads were as overt as the ones cited, or that the intended audience was not gullible or, to be blunt, stupid.
    Most of the examples I have seen are close to as overt as the one's cited. I still remember receiving an email with an attached link from a friend with an article about Hillary's involvement in child sex traffic. It was a must read, why was the media not covering this. That particular friend supported Trump from the day of his announcement, adamantly (still does to this day). Those ads did not affect my vote one iota. Who would they have affected?

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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Most of the examples I have seen are close to as overt as the one's cited. I still remember receiving an email with an attached link from a friend with an article about Hillary's involvement in child sex traffic. It was a must read, why was the media not covering this. That particular friend supported Trump from the day of his announcement, adamantly (still does to this day). Those ads did not affect my vote one iota. Who would they have affected?
    Anyone dim enough to be considering voting for Trump.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by birlinn View Post
    Anyone dim enough to be considering voting for Trump.
    One can, after three years in of the Trump administration, perhaps say such a thing. But in 2016, people did not vote for Trump because they were dumb. I know very, very intelligent people who voted for Trump.

    If you want to know why people voted for Trump, listen to Chris Matthews explain it during the campaign:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dO9u8n4s3M

  8. #43
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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    One can, after three years in of the Trump administration, perhaps say such a thing. But in 2016, people did not vote for Trump because they were dumb. I know very, very intelligent people who voted for Trump.

    If you want to know why people voted for Trump, listen to Chris Matthews explain it during the campaign:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dO9u8n4s3M
    One would have to define 'dumb'. There are various sorts of intelligence. And various sorts of internal psychological impediments to the full employment of native intelligence... dumbing us down - in spite of ourselves.
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  9. #44
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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Most of the examples I have seen are close to as overt as the one's cited. I still remember receiving an email with an attached link from a friend with an article about Hillary's involvement in child sex traffic. It was a must read, why was the media not covering this. That particular friend supported Trump from the day of his announcement, adamantly (still does to this day). Those ads did not affect my vote one iota. Who would they have affected?
    You've only seen a small fraction of what was pushed out by Moscow.

    Here is the archive that was just released.
    https://intelligence.house.gov/socia...rtisements.htm

  10. #45
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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Dryfoot View Post
    You've only seen a small fraction of what was pushed out by Moscow.

    Here is the archive that was just released.

    https://intelligence.house.gov/socia...rtisements.htm
    Ayup.

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  11. #46
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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Anyone posted this one yet?

    David G
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  12. #47
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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    On the matter of Trump's racism ---

    David G
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  13. #48
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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    That proves nothing. I readily admit that the Russians put out a lot of propaganda in the hopes of affecting the election towards Trump. I will tell you, the only people who that effected were already hard-core Trumpists. That's it. No on on the left was affected, and very, very few in the middle were affected by it. The only people who followed those fake news items which were so blatantly absurd were the people who were yelling the loudest for Trump from the very beginning. I used to get sent links to them in emails from friends and family. Without fail, they only came from the Trumpists, and I mean the hard core Trumpists.


    I stand by my statement: very, very few voters had their decision swayed by the Russian propaganda. Very, very few. I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary. As someone on the left, you may want to believe that everyone who voted for Trump were duped by the Russians, it explains your loss. But if they were duped, it was only by Trump with regards to himself.
    I beg to differ.

    As evidence, I present my mother. Age 79 at this time 4 years ago.

    Her father was a hard-core liberal - ran a soup kitchen during the depression, union activist, close friend of Hubert Humphrey. She has always been rather apolitical, but was a 'swing voter', casting ballots for the candidates she felt had the most integrity regardless of party. Over the years, she has slightly favored Democrats, but not by much.

    She is very social and has an extensive Facebook and email network. She doesn't pay much attention to conventional news sources any more, and spends most of her time on-line and reading escapist fiction. Summer of '16 she started forwarding email strings and facebook links of the type posted by Tom M - nasty, poisonous anti-Clinton stuff from questionable sources. She had become righteously concerned about how evil and corrupt Hillary was ('My god, the woman is torturing children!') and how the main stream media was covering it up. 'How in the world could anyone ever consider voting for such a vile person?'

    We politely asked her to stop forwarding this crap to us and agreed that we shouldn't talk politics.

    During the past month or so, she has begun mentioning Biden in similar terms and talking about what a great job Trump is doing. She hasn't been forwarding her correspondence this time, but it is clear that the vilification of Biden on social media is in full gear.

    So here is a woman, now in her 80's, who is sharp as a tack in most respects, but who has been completely snowed by the pro-Trump social media campaign. Ten, or even 5 years ago, I cannot imagine her favoring someone who was anything like Trump. That, and she basically disagrees with most of his policy positions. Nevertheless, Biden is corrupt, evil, incompetent, and tainted by association with Obama. So she'll vote for Trump.

    Seems to me that she is far from unique. Conventional, mainstream (fact-based) media has taken a back seat as people spend their time consuming social media sources, sources that are often not edited or vetted in any way, sources that are highly vulnerable to abuse and misinformation. Even more insidious are the algorithms used by Facebook, Google, and many others to 'enhance the user experience' which tailor news feeds and search results, subtly creating echo chambers for their users.

    Low-information voters are not all found at the bottom of the IQ scale. A large and growing number of them rely on social media as their primary news source, which makes them particularly vulnerable propaganda of all sorts.

    - John

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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Damn, LongJohn, that is truly terrifying.

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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    Damn, LongJohn, that is truly terrifying.
    Not to be flip, my friend, but be very afraid.

    What size group of armed true believers would it take to turn the USA on its ear, if they had the tacit approval of the LPOSIC and his 'Base'?

    5%?

    10%?

    This spit is fixin' to get very, very real.

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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    That proves nothing. I readily admit that the Russians put out a lot of propaganda in the hopes of affecting the election towards Trump. I will tell you, the only people who that effected were already hard-core Trumpists. That's it. No on on the left was affected, and very, very few in the middle were affected by it.
    If you believe that you also have to believe that commercial advertising doesn't influence people in their purchasing choices. Given that TV advertising in the US started in the early 1940s, advertisers have had eighty years to figure out if it works or not. Furthermore, given that US advertising spending in 2019 was around $240.7 billion (up from $223.7 billion) recorded in 2018, it would appear that the businesses advertising on TV are either extremely dumb, or they know there is eighty years of evidence showing that spending on advertising is effective.

    Why do presidential candidates spend millions of dollars on advertising during their campaigns? eg Trump and Clinton between them spent $81 million on Facebook ads in 2016. That's a lot of money for not influencing anybody.
    Structures uninformed by geometry tend towards the ramshackle.

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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    It's possible some people put more thought into choosing toothpaste.
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    It's possible some people put more thought into choosing toothpaste.
    Have disagree. I'd say 'probable'... not 'possible' <G>
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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    It's possible some people put more thought into choosing toothpaste.
    Guilty as charged. I will indeed put more thought into choosing toothpaste than in deciding who to vote for this year.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Your minds are totally controlled
    You have been stuffed
    Into my mold
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    You think not, eh? Here are examples of the Russian propaganda interference in the 2016 presidential election . . .
    And does one suppose that they have been sitting around with their hands in their pants since then?

    US Intelligence says, not so.
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    I recognize Stephen Root, who also plays the DA in “Perry Mason”, and was the Swingline stapler aficionado in “ Office Space”.
    That was a very good one. One of the best parts was the message that shows after the mini-drama ends. On a black screen, the message:

    "This guy was in a coma. What's your excuse?"
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Guilty as charged. I will indeed put more thought into choosing toothpaste than in deciding who to vote for this year.
    I would vote for toothpaste over the current occupant of the White House.
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

    -Dalai Lama

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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    I would vote for toothpaste over the current occupant of the White House.
    Although the current occupant might be described as "a tube" in English slang - British derogatory slang, a foolish or despicable person
    Structures uninformed by geometry tend towards the ramshackle.

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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    That proves nothing. I readily admit that the Russians put out a lot of propaganda in the hopes of affecting the election towards Trump. I will tell you, the only people who that effected were already hard-core Trumpists. That's it. No on on the left was affected, and very, very few in the middle were affected by it. The only people who followed those fake news items which were so blatantly absurd were the people who were yelling the loudest for Trump from the very beginning. I used to get sent links to them in emails from friends and family. Without fail, they only came from the Trumpists, and I mean the hard core Trumpists.


    I stand by my statement: very, very few voters had their decision swayed by the Russian propaganda. Very, very few. I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary. As someone on the left, you may want to believe that everyone who voted for Trump were duped by the Russians, it explains your loss. But if they were duped, it was only by Trump with regards to himself.
    Surely that's not the point? It's acceptable because you think that'very few' voters were influenced?
    Hill. had been demonised by a deal of lies but the populations that voted for donald were hoping for something better than tweedle dum and..tweedle dum as the duopoly was in danger of becoming. And of course there was the matter of a black man in the White House.
    This time round two mentally challenged septegenarians, one a completely self serving and corrupt man. Not much of a choice out of a population of 328+ million, pre Covid.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    I stand by my statement: very, very few voters had their decision swayed by the Russian propaganda. Very, very few. I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary.
    You haven't cited any affirmative evidence, either... which renders your opinion, at best, 'uninformed'. You might be right, or you might be wrong.

    Jeffery Toobin, in his new book, does provide concrete examples of the specific mechanisms of Russian interference in the 2016 election, and it's pretty compelling... and recently, we've certainly heard authoritative voices say that the same thing is happening again... on steroids.

    Does it work? I seriously doubt that an adversary would devote that much effort and resources into it, if they didn't think it would work. While your argument that this stuff didn't have much effect on committed Trump voters sounds logical, it says nothing about that millions of voters 'on the fence' who are subjected to this stuff.

    I think we can agree that outside interference in American elections is a bad thing, though.... and arguments diminishing its effect are NOT helpful.

    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Is it partisan to promote the idea this russian misinformation isn't important? How can it not be?

    AFA 'is it effective'? You'd better believe it. I have a number of extended family (not extended enough) that live off these memes, and enthusiastically forward them to 'all their friends'. Any attempt to look objectively is 'fake news'.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.


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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy W View Post
    Yeah.

    If the DNC can stay with that message, they will win.

    Apparently, about a third of Americans value being loudmouthed, violent, fear driven schmucks more than they do their own liberal democracy.

    There's nothing that can be done about that, except vote.


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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy W View Post
    Exactly. Then contrast that with Trumps nasty childish tweets and insults.

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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.


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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.


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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    ...

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    Default Re: The latest ad from The Lincoln Project.

    Now we're talkin'.

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