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Thread: 1977 Grady White conversion

  1. #1
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    Default 1977 Grady White conversion

    So I picked up the boat today from my thread about outboard bracket building. When I got there the boat was in the air ready back my trailer under it. I didn't even get to look at it. After it was set on my trailer I took a peak and saw why. This boat is a disaster, a total loss. The engine That they bragged about being in it, the oil pan is off and the rotating assembly is rusted. The engine will make a better anchor.

    Good thing it was free.

    Ok, thats the bad. The good. The hull is perfect, its 20 ft long and plenty beamy. I am now considering gutting the entire boat and cutting off the cabin. Then laying in new stringers, and a floor. Install a center console and a fwd casting deck. Simple, open floor plan, and cheap. Do the outboard pod, maybe 150hp, and a good coat of paint. Do some nice LED lighting in it too, rig it out for fishing and put it on the market.

    I feel a center consol on a solid glass hull is a good choice and would have good resale value. What say yall? I know, its glass and not wood, but I put it in the bilge for that reason....


    received_272480203824906.jpgreceived_930801964102939.jpg

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    I say you got suckered on disposal costs. I tried to warn you.

    Taking the cabin/deck off WILL compromise the structural integrity of the hull; The gunwales will flex in and out, and much less torsional rigidity. You'll be turning a closed section into an open section. Laying in a floor will help, if not too low; The higher the floor, the better the stiffness.
    Last edited by Bob (oh, THAT Bob); 06-28-2020 at 08:25 PM.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    I say you got suckered on disposal costs. I tried to warn you.

    Taking the cabin/deck off WILL compromise the structural integrity of the hull; The gunwales will flex in and out, and much less torsional rigidity. You'll be turning a closed section into an open section.
    Yeah, you aren't wrong... but im not easily discouraged. It was free, I just needed to go get it. So now I need to figure out....

    How do I make money with this? I feel its possible. Im not afraid in the least to dive in and rip out the stringers and redo them, as well as the deck of course. Certainly a completely rebuilt boat is cheaper to do than new, and with enough difference to have a profit?

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    Yeah, you aren't wrong... but im not easily discouraged. It was free, I just needed to go get it. So now I need to figure out....

    How do I make money with this? I feel its possible. Im not afraid in the least to dive in and rip out the stringers and redo them, as well as the deck of course. Certainly a completely rebuilt boat is cheaper to do than new, and with enough difference to have a profit?
    (Check my revised post.) Before getting in any deeper, compare prices of used hulls without power, particularly aluminum skiffs. Your used conversion, with a design not executed by a marine architect, may be a hard sell.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Can this be done? Absolutely. Can you make $$ at it? That’s another question.
    A lapstrake center console would be somewhat unique.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    my 2 cents.

    I think it would be way easier and will yield more money(which still might not be much)if you restore it as is. Strip off all the hardware, grind, patch, paint, reinstall all the junk.

    Leverage the classic look of this boat.

    there’s a lot of inventory out there, I’m not sure you could make this worth your while.

    a highly modified hull might scare buyers away and is another obstacle to over come.

    however, if you do undertake this, I will gladly pay attention. It will be very interesting to watch.
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    Default 1977 Grady White conversion

    There's no money in a redo. Theres plenty of good used boats to be had that dont require the buyer having to have the history and modifications to the boat explained to them

    In my opinion, your best shot is to get one of your free outboard's running. Build or buy a bracket. Install it and take the first offer you get.




    Kevin





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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    There's no money in a redo. Theres plenty of good used boats to be had that dont require the buyer having to have the history and modifications to the boat explained to them

    In my opinion, your best shot is to get one of your free outboard's running. Build or buy a bracket. Install it and take the first offer you get.

    Kevin
    Precisely.

    Let me state this bluntly... the more you MODIFY it... the less value it will have. Except for re-powering with outboard power. Patch it up as required then put some paint and some outboard power and some lipstick on that pig and TAKE THE FIRST OFFER! There's liable not to be another.
    David G
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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    There's no money in a redo. Theres plenty of good used boats to be had that dont require the buyer having to have the history and modifications to the boat explained to them

    In my opinion, your best shot is to get one of your free outboard's running. Build or buy a bracket. Install it and take the first offer you get.




    Kevin





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    This is good advice. I own a 1962 Lone Star 23ft Cruisemaster that is in rough shape, but in my case the hull is aluminum, and the factory built them to take a nuclear hit. Even so, I'll spend more making it right than I can ever get for it.

    Flipping a boat for profit probably can be done, but I've never heard of anyone doing it. A friend lovingly restored his Cruisemaster to better than new shape, and he tried to sell it for $7500.00. He ended up getting about $4500.00 for it, and it is a beautiful boat. The problem is that he had over 12K wrapped up in the boat.

    Jeff C

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by leikec View Post
    This is good advice. I own a 1962 Lone Star 23ft Cruisemaster that is in rough shape, but in my case the hull is aluminum, and the factory built them to take a nuclear hit. Even so, I'll spend more making it right than I can ever get for it.

    Flipping a boat for profit probably can be done, but I've never heard of anyone doing it. A friend lovingly restored his Cruisemaster to better than new shape, and he tried to sell it for $7500.00. He ended up getting about $4500.00 for it, and it is a beautiful boat. The problem is that he had over 12K wrapped up in the boat.

    Jeff C
    There's a guy on YouTube that does it, and it's like flipping houses.

    First, you have to buy it cheap, second, if you do anything more than a spit and polish, you're losing money.

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    There's a guy on YouTube that does it, and it's like flipping houses.

    First, you have to buy it cheap, second, if you do anything more than a spit and polish, you're losing money.
    Makes sense. My problem is that I spit, I polish, then I see something wrong that makes me want to spit again...

    Pretty soon I'm in way over my head.

    Jeff C

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    You say the hull is perfect. So now get a of sheet of paper and carefully list the condition of every square inch of the boat, stringers, transom, bulkheads, decks, - everything - miss nothing, take your time. Don't make plans until you know EVERYTHING about that boat. Go over it again to make sure you haven't missed anything.

    If it really is perfect, clean it thoroughly; clean every goddam square inch. Then look at it again. The only way you might break even on it is to keep it as original as possible.

    Put nothing but sweat and a few parts into it, and add a decent outboard bracket. Any conversions you have in mind, center console or otherwise, will probably look like sh!t and be unmarketable. If you could do a successful marketable conversion you wouldn't be discussing the possibility on this forum. Sorry, but that's how it is.

    If it isn't perfect try to give it away. If that doesn't work, chain saw it up and take it to the cheapest dumping outfit you can find.

    I owned one of the first fiberglass Owens hulls, 1959, 27 feet. I managed to keep it running and in the water for five years, and only lost $4000 on it. Someone actually bought it from me, but sometimes buyers are rare.

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    To quote my father on level of rehab,

    "Jack up the paint job and drive a new boat underneath."
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Let's be positive for a minute; Is that Grady White hull of particular quality? Good quality glass fabric, good layup schedule, nice and thick?
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

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    Thumbs up Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Why don't ya fix it up and use it for awhile.
    That could be a great fishing boat.
    Keep calm, persistence beats resistance.

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Domesticated_Mr. Know It All View Post
    Why don't ya fix it up and use it for awhile.
    That could be a great fishing boat.
    If, and only if, the hull is especially high quality and tough, I could see it making a great fishing and utility boat; Removing the deck and putting in a floor, stringing fenders over the entire gunwale as bumpers, etc. But a TON of work, and not likely to sell at a profit, and most work boats are bought new so the value can be depreciated against profits.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    I actually like that style powerboat. Not so much the IO, but the small cabin with the semi-protected cockpit behind and slightly above it. It is a nice look. I bet cleaned up with a powerful outboard or two hung off of the stern, she would go well. You also gain all that room below deck where the engine once sat.
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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    The hull is great. By that I mean, the glass is in good shape. Stringers are mulch. It being a 77 model, I am going to assume the glass is thick.

    My end goal is to be able to afford a good 175-225 ho for my OTHER Grady White that I do want to keep. Id trade it for a good motor or sell it to afford one. Maybe my odds are better if I look into trading VS selling.

    I can get 3/4 marine ply at Lowes for $75 a sheet. I figure if I use 2 sheets for stringers and 3 for the deck, another 3 for the pod and two for the transom, id be $750 into wood. Im not certain how much glass and resin is, but I figure if I double the cost of wood, im in the ball park. So now im 1500 in, and need to paint. Say 500 for paint and fuel lines, im 2k in. Then another 1500 for a trailer and motor in the off season ( probably on a junk boat as a package deal ), and im 3500 in.

    Sound reasonable? Then maybe sell it for 4 or 5k, or swap for a good Yamaha 225...

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    sound reasonable?
    nnnnope.

    have fun storming the castle!

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    The hull is great. By that I mean, the glass is in good shape. Stringers are mulch. It being a 77 model, I am going to assume the glass is thick.

    My end goal is to be able to afford a good 175-225 ho for my OTHER Grady White that I do want to keep. Id trade it for a good motor or sell it to afford one. Maybe my odds are better if I look into trading VS selling.

    I can get 3/4 marine ply at Lowes for $75 a sheet. I figure if I use 2 sheets for stringers and 3 for the deck, another 3 for the pod and two for the transom, id be $750 into wood. Im not certain how much glass and resin is, but I figure if I double the cost of wood, im in the ball park. So now im 1500 in, and need to paint. Say 500 for paint and fuel lines, im 2k in. Then another 1500 for a trailer and motor in the off season ( probably on a junk boat as a package deal ), and im 3500 in.

    Sound reasonable? Then maybe sell it for 4 or 5k, or swap for a good Yamaha 225...
    Thick glass does not mean good glass. For me, good glass means fabric and not chopper gun glass, in a good alternating layup, with proper layering of fabric and mat, good saturation of resin but a good rolling or vacuum bagging so high glass fraction.

    That's a very small potential profit margin for the amount of work, and that's if things go ideally.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    If you get tired of all the work you can always go for a "faith based" repair. There are a lot of believers :

    https://www.transomrepair.net/

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    Thick glass does not mean good glass. For me, good glass means fabric and not chopper gun glass, in a good alternating layup, with proper layering of fabric and mat, good saturation of resin but a good rolling or vacuum bagging so high glass fraction.
    In the Grady-White documentation of the 1977 line of boats, they describe how the hulls are laid-up by hand using layers of mat and woven roving with resin impregnated into the fabrics with rollers. Vacuum-bagging was not done in production 'glass boats for another few decades.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    I think it all depends on the extent to which you like working on boats.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by mmd View Post
    In the Grady-White documentation of the 1977 line of boats, they describe how the hulls are laid-up by hand using layers of mat and woven roving with resin impregnated into the fabrics with rollers. Vacuum-bagging was not done in production 'glass boats for another few decades.
    Not surprised. Many of the best boats were done that way at the time.

    OTOH... I'm still waiting to hear how sure he is that all the wooden longitudinal members are intact. They frequently aren't. And I saw what appeared to be some twist in one image. Hard to tell from a distance... but still worrisome.
    David G
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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Not surprised. Many of the best boats were done that way at the time.

    OTOH... I'm still waiting to hear how sure he is that all the wooden longitudinal members are intact. They frequently aren't. And I saw what appeared to be some twist in one image. Hard to tell from a distance... but still worrisome.
    He say's:

    The hull is great. By that I mean, the glass is in good shape. Stringers are mulch. It being a 77 model, I am going to assume the glass is thick.

    This gets into the area of what is "sh!t" and what is "apple butter," and how important it is that folks can tell the difference between sh!t and apple butter.

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion




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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Here is the formula to make money on a project like that, and actually come out well ahead in the long run----

    Make a list of each task that needs to be done on this boat, and the number of man hours that you think it will take to do each task.

    Add 30% to the number of man-hours, because it will never go as fast as you think that it will.

    Now go get a part-time job. Anywhere, doing anything, at any legal labor rate. It doesn't matter what the job is. Working at Walmart, flipping burgers, cutting grass, whatever. Of course it will be much more enjoyable if you actually like the work, and you'll be much better off if they pay you a decent rate for your time. But honestly. It doesn't really matter.

    Work that job for the number of man-hours that you will invest in this boat. Save every penny that you make.

    When you finish working those man hours, take whatever money you have now accumulated and invest it in a decent boat.

    I guarantee you will be far and away ahead financially.

    And we haven't even considered the cost of materials, supplies, and a motor..

    If you proceed with this project, when you are finished, you will be lucky to recoup the value of the motor hanging on the back of the stern. Every other bit of material and labor you will probably give away, and at that point be happy to do so, just to be rid of that project.

    I've been there. I've done this. It did not turn out well.

    But however you proceed, I wish you happiness, and satisfaction, and luck.
    Even a fish wouldn’t get in trouble if it kept it's mouth shut.

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Oysterhouse View Post
    Here is the formula to make money on a project like that, and actually come out well ahead in the long run----

    Make a list of each task that needs to be done on this boat, and the number of man hours that you think it will take to do each task.

    Add 30% to the number of man-hours, because it will never go as fast as you think that it will.

    Now go get a part-time job. Anywhere, doing anything, at any legal labor rate. It doesn't matter what the job is. Working at Walmart, flipping burgers, cutting grass, whatever. Of course it will be much more enjoyable if you actually like the work, and you'll be much better off if they pay you a decent rate for your time. But honestly. It doesn't really matter.

    Work that job for the number of man-hours that you will invest in this boat. Save every penny that you make.

    When you finish working those man hours, take whatever money you have now accumulated and invest it in a decent boat.

    I guarantee you will be far and away ahead financially.

    And we haven't even considered the cost of materials, supplies, and a motor..

    If you proceed with this project, when you are finished, you will be lucky to recoup the value of the motor hanging on the back of the stern. Every other bit of material and labor you will probably give away, and at that point be happy to do so, just to be rid of that project.

    I've been there. I've done this. It did not turn out well.

    But however you proceed, I wish you happiness, and satisfaction, and luck.
    Yes. A stark, but very probably accurate assessment of where sleek currently stands.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  29. #29
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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Ok, I appreciate all the advice here guys. I just am having a hard time understanding how such a solid hull is worth so little. If I were to have a brand new hull built and I were to outfit it, it would cost a lot more, but be worth more. Why the difference?

  30. #30
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    Default 1977 Grady White conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    Ok, I appreciate all the advice here guys. I just am having a hard time understanding how such a solid hull is worth so little. If I were to have a brand new hull built and I were to outfit it, it would cost a lot more, but be worth more. Why the difference?


    Because new is new; new aint used. For more info, see: apples and oranges.

    Also, the glass is probably fine but requires the support of the stringers, transom and deck/liner ( the cockpit sole and inwales.) all of which feature wood coring. Contrary to urban legend, wood-core glass parts are not just as strong and stiff as fiberglass parts without coring, or with mulchy coring. That is crap that salespeople propagate. The former relies on the core for stiffness and strength. To replace all that is a huge job. To say you WANT to do it... fine. I'll be glad to try and help you, as will others here, I am sure.

    But, if you want to PROFIT, or even break even, you sir, respectfully, are dreaming. No one can help you toward that goal because it is not possible.

    Kevin


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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Perversely, the poorer-quality boats of that era are easier to restore than the well-built ones. In a poor-quality boat, the liner is held in the boat by screws and the deck mold fastened to the hull with rivets, both of which can be readily removed, allowing the upper bits to be lifted off the hull and exposing all the innards such as longitudinal stringers, plumbing, wiring, etc. Better-built boats had the liners set into resin/chopped glass putty ("angel hair") and the deck tabbed into place on the hull, making them really, really tough to work on.

    I agree with the general conclusion of the crowd here: the boat is restorable and would make a fine antique boat to buzz about in. You might even get some compliments (but not from the wooden boat crowd, usually). But unless you are very skilled and very fast, and the boat is a very desirable model, it is highly unlikely that you will be able to sell it for more than break-even price. Possible, but unlikely. Such is the nature of mass-produced plastic anythings.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    Ok...I just am having a hard time understanding how such a solid hull is worth so little.

    Don't play tricks on yourself; don't let your language usage define a reality that doesn't really exist.

    It's absolutely not a "solid" hull, that's why you got it for free.

    It might become a "solid" hull someday, but only after the addition of hundreds of hours of work and restorative materials.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Been there and done that. A few times, no less. (I'm a slow learner).

    Oysterhouse is dead on. I'd make one exception: If you really enjoy working on boats, just for the fun of bringing something back to life, you could consider the inevitable finance loss a cost of doing something that makes you happy. I've done that before, but it can be an expensive habit.

    BTW, the ultimate deal killer is rotten stringers. That's worth it only on historically significant boats where everything else is pristine and functional. Otherwise, the work is miserable, doesn't add visual value, and you may get into the project just to find out that the transom is rotten too.

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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Apparently I need to learn a lesson, and in order to understand exactly what and why, im going into the night, but im carrying a lantern. Im curious, and i want to learn how to do this anyway. Eventually I want to do some new construction, what a better way to learn?
    Last edited by sleek; 06-29-2020 at 04:23 PM.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: 1977 Grady White conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    Apparently I need to learn a lesson, and in order to understand exactly what and why, im going into the night, but im carrying a lantern. Im curious, and i want to learn how to do this anyway. Eventually I want to do some new construction, what a better way to lean?
    If you're going to move the goalposts... and redefine this project as a 'learning experience'... then lay on!

    But it'll quite likely never be your 'polish it, sell it, and make enough to put an outboard on my other boat'.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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