Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 48

Thread: An Ilur in NZ

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Hamilton, New Zealand
    Posts
    35

    Default An Ilur in NZ

    Greetings all,
    After a long while of lurking here admiring the fine builds it's time to start my own.

    I've been thinking about building a boat for about four years now and have done smaller projects including a cedar strip canoe and hybrid (cedar and ply) kayak to both build up skills, satisfy the building itch and because I'd convinced myself a full sailing boat was out of reach.
    That's clearly defeatist talk and with the other canoe and kayak taking up space there's only just enough room left for a boat so now it's time to press on.

    It will be an Ilur by Francios Vivier and built from the kit.

    Why an Ilur?
    The boat will be used on local hydo scheme lakes here for sailing and trout fishing and some sail and oar overnighting.
    This sort of environment where I go canoeing....
    IMG-0193.jpg

    The other cruising grounds will be in a coastal environment of the Coromandel pensinsular, Raglan Harbour and possibly Hauraki Gulf, where I paddle my kayak...
    IMG-1035.jpg

    I've got a little sailing experience from my teens but not much and stability and foregiveability are required.


    I'd loved the idea of a Beg Meil and spent a while fixating on the design. Further reflection means it's probably not the best suited for me: I want something also suited to rowing easily and camping onboard, a simpler lug rig v a gaffer, an unstayed mast that can be raised quickly on the water, a decent single hander for launch and recovery as well as sailing and no large steel parts or lead pours need.

    A Welsford navigator was seriously considered and a half built example for sale inspected but I've got a little storage slot where the finished boat will live and be partially built and it was just a little too wide.

    The Ilur's transaltion into a kit and the build logs here (John Hartmann, Christoph Harlan and other luminaries) and its general mix of features, variety of rigs and simple Gallic romance made it irresistable. Yes, Roger Barnes' youtube adventures also had an influence.

    I'm unaware of any of this class in New Zealand so if any owners are lurking here, please sing out!

    Given there's no kit supplier here in New Zealand and freight and tax importing one was making the price hard to justify, I ordered the files directly from the designer and have had the sheets cut by a local furniture-maker with a CNC machine. It's turned out great judging by some test fitting.

    Here's the result on the garage floor.
    IMG-1735.jpg

    My CNC guy was pretty impressed by the cutting files and close tolerances as shown in the puzzle joints below and has made it all work despite me supplying metric sized 15mm ply instead of the 2440mm sheet for the building frame.

    IMG-1736.jpg

    Next steps are tidying the build space and sourcing timber.

    Enthusiasm abounds but plenty of questions await so thanks in advance for any help.

    Wayne

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Rushworth, Australia
    Posts
    563

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Welcome Wayne, bit like a 3D jigsaw puzzle, that pile of bits. Go forth and glue

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    227

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Welcome Wayne!
    Great idea about getting the files and then having a local CNC shop cut the pieces.
    The piles of cut pieces look recognizably Ilurish .
    Doing a thread like this probably the best way to get input / feedback / advice from other builders.

    For my part, John Hartmann's thread and direct input had been invaluable.
    The other great help came by watching a boat building video series on Off Center Harbor.
    If you are not familiar with it, consider subscribing to Off Center Harbor. Can't recommend it highly enough, really!
    Among many benefits, you will gain access to this video series (40 some segments) which take you step by step through the process of building a glued-lapstrake boat.
    Professional boat builder Geoff Kerr takes you through the construction of a Caledonia Yawl.
    The videos are extremely well done, Geoff is a fabulous teacher and I love his running commentary as he builds.

    Looking forward to your build.
    Cheers
    Chris

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Hamilton, New Zealand
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Thanks Chris.
    I'll check out OCH. I subscribed to a lockdown special but have only dabbled in the eye candy so far.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Hansville, Wa., USA
    Posts
    114

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Hi Wayne,
    it looks like you have a good start to your build. One of my early issues was to just find space to store all the wood. It looks like you have a great space for you build. What sail rig are you doing?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Hamilton, New Zealand
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Hi David,
    I'm thinking it'll be a lug sloop along the lines of Christoph's Ilur in PA. I won't have all that garage space all the time unfortunately. That's just the parts spread out when they were first unloaded. I'm hoping to keep the build in a covered space alongside the garage and wheel it into the garage when I need a bit more room.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Hansville, Wa., USA
    Posts
    114

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Hi Wayne,
    The Lug Sloop has a good look. Can I ask why you picked that sail rig? From what I've read about the different sail rigs for the Ilur they are all fairly even in performance. Yes, there are some differences, but in general I'm not sure it matters. To me it comes down to the culture of where you are going to sail and what you are used to. The East coast of the US has more yawls. The West coast has more sloops. I'm used to sloops because I had a 27 foot sloop for 15 years. But, I picked the Lug rig with a boom because I am used to a boom and it is easier to tack and easier to sail single handed. In the end, it just comes down to what you want. They are all good.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Guerilla Bay, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    155

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    I can second the comment about subscribing to the OCH website - it's been worth every penny to me & I've build 2 glued clinker hulls so far.............

    You might want to buy some books to read whilst the glue is setting - Iain Oughtred's book on clinker boat building is good and I also like Greg Rossel's book on small boat building.

    Measure thrice & cut/glue once if you can - and go back and look at what you just glued after you have had that cup of tea/coffee - you'd be amazed what slips to the wrong place but can be easily corrected if you catch it in time :-) And enjoy the build it is all fairly easy once you understand - so understand, then glue!

    Good Luck & look forward to seeing progress. Neil
    IMG_1439.jpg

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Hamilton, New Zealand
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Hi David,
    theres no real science behind my choice of sloop righter than it’s slightly more familiar to me from my limited sailing experience and the potential of a flailing block on the end of a boom less rig in the hands of a newbie isn’t attractive.
    I just love the look also and Vivier’s option of a second mast step for sailing without the jib and bowsprit seems to give some options.
    I have considered a yawl after reading much about their good points but I have no experience of them and love a clear transom. One of the places I imagine taking my ilur is a hydro scheme lake (in first pic on this build thread) with a small inflowing river that’s very good for trout fishing. A low road bridge has to passed to get into the river so I don’t imagine coming out of there and then raising both a main and mizzenmast. Yes, This will probably be a tiny bit of my boating time, but I’ve got a job and family and boating time is short and these are things that make the choice so personal.

    Neil, thanks for the sound advice. I’ve had Ian’s book for a number of years in preparation for this (it was also helpful in building the canoe and kayak). Lovely work on yours.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Hamilton, New Zealand
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    unnamed.jpg
    A question for any other kit builders out there. My 9mm centre lamination of the stem has a ridge on it as seen here. I'm unsure if this should be planed off once glued up or should I keep it. It seems like an impediment to the false stem lamination that uses the ply as a pattern or is the true shape I'm actually after?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Saco, ME
    Posts
    2,314

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    I can check this for you, Wayne. It must be in the cutting file. You don't have to use the stem, either. You can always bend the laminations around a jig you make to the stem shape. I use 2x4 blocks of wood. I shim them off the table which is covered in plastic. The nice thing is that you can bend the laminations and get on with work on the stem, without tying up the stem.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Hamilton, New Zealand
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Thanks Clint.
    I think I've worked it out.
    I suspect it's an anomoly on the cutting file as the extra material on the 9mm centrepiece follows the curve of the red line (a keel datum line?) on the plans.

    IMG-1775[1].jpg

    However, I think I'll leave it on while laminating the false stem on the stem pieces here and use filler blocks either side to support the laminations to the same level as it will allow the lamination to follow a natural curve to the point of the final clamp rather than bend suddenly onto a flat when it reaches the point where the false stem and false keel meet. That's the pencil mark on the stem in the pic below.
    That sudden bend could cause a slight rise away from the keel form to forward when clamped aft of the bend and leave a wee gap. It's a small deal but worth considering.

    IMG-1777[1].jpg
    Above you can just see the line the false stem will take where I've laid a strip on it with a black sharpie coloured edge.
    IMG-1778[1].jpg
    Here's the pattern for the false stem on. The material I'm talking about will be trimmed off anyway but will simply make for an easier clamping with a natural curve. It's good to start thinking in three dimensions with the pieces now.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    7,517

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    It seems that Vivier's Ilur is really coming into its own--how many Ilur build threads are there going on right now? And how cool is that?!

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Hansville, Wa., USA
    Posts
    114

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Hi Wayne, Its interesting that your kit has that extra wedge shape in the stem. You are right about using it to allow for a easier bend if you use the stem to shape the false keel. In order to soften the bend when I used the stem to shape my false keel, I added a wedge to allow for the softer bend. Your wedge is built in.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Hamilton, New Zealand
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Thanks David. That's interesting about your piece and convinces me on the plan of attack here. I'll glue up the stem, laminate the false stem off it and then plane the wedge off.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Hamilton, New Zealand
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    The false stem has been laminated and reinforced the fact that everything always takes more clamps than expected.
    It's a little shorter than the inner stem as the lug sloop has the top trimmed back from the standard length to accomodate the bowsprit and also the piece of sapele I used was only long enough to yield just enough material to get to this length.

    IMG-1792.jpg
    IMG-1793.jpg

    Also completed has been the transom, topped by a sapele again with a rebate cut on the tablesaw.
    IMG-1795.jpg
    Before...
    IMG-1794.jpg

    and after...

    unnamed.jpg

    I was quite pleased with how this turned out with a bandsaw and the theraputic action of hand planing. I lack a thicknesser and have winged my way through previous projects without one so am trying continue that path here on the ilur.
    Next tasks are still fairly prep-related, including joining strakes, attaching trim to bulkheads etc and then it'll be on to centreboard construciton.
    I've obtained some sapele from a local dealer including a 4.3m x 30cm board that provided the transom piece and will ideally do both inner and false keel and a portion of the gunwales and some prominent bits like centreboard cap etc.

    I've also got some macrocarpa (known as Monterey Cypress outside NZ) for internal timbers.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Sunny Florida
    Posts
    600

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Beautiful work! Thanks for posting such great pictures.

    Jason

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Hansville, Wa., USA
    Posts
    114

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Great job Wayne! You did much better with your transom than I did. I should have epoxied on just the transom head first then added the doubler. It was too much for my first epoxy job to do both at once and I ended up with my transom head tilted forward a bit. I'm living with it.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Hamilton, New Zealand
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Thanks David, I think your transom looks fine.
    If there's one thing I learned from previous projects it's that only the builder sees such things and others see the overall finished result as a beautiful working thing.
    I did the transom glue up as the ply parts first and the shaped sapele head.
    It's winter here and I heated the garage to get the epoxy moving and misjudged the timing a little. It was a near-run thing getting it into position before it went off but all turned out well.
    Last edited by WayneT; 09-10-2020 at 03:59 AM.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Dunedin, New Zealand
    Posts
    725

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Hi Wayne,
    Good to see another New Zealand thread. You are very well organised and doing great work. I use macrocarpa too.
    We lived in Rotorua and Mt Maunganui from 1967 to 1977. I did a lot of canoeing and kayaking in those days, and later. That's Whitianga in your photo, isn't it?
    Watching with interest.
    All the best.
    Ian
    "Kotik,Kotik,Kotik"
    “Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
    Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

    “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
    Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Hamilton, New Zealand
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Thanks Ian.
    I don't know about organised but it feels this build breaks down quite easily into small tasks. It's a nice change from having to mill and route a whole canoe's worth of timber strips.
    Yes that's Whitanga in the pic. Many a happy summer is spent there. Any suggestions on sourcing mast and spar timber are welcome.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Guerilla Bay, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    155

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    I'll be interested to see how your sculling works in your Illur Wayne - I am currently think about oars in my Oughtred Gannet which I am building (see thread on this forum) but my friends are trying to persaude me to go sculling. I'd be interested to read any feedback, clearly one oar in a smallish boat is better than 2 but I do wonder how much power can be exercised by a scull when you need to get off that lee shore!?

    Regards Neil

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Hamilton, New Zealand
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    I'll be aiming to have two functional oars operating with oarlocks but am interested in giving stern sculling a go for manouvering off jetties etc.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Dunedin, New Zealand
    Posts
    725

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Hi Wayne,
    I was lucky to get some imported Canadian Dougls-fir (Oregon) from a local joiner for my masts and spars, but otherwise I would have used macrocarpa, which I can get quite near here. I don't know about North Island suppliers.
    Ian

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Saco, ME
    Posts
    2,314

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Quote Originally Posted by WayneT View Post
    Thanks David. That's interesting about your piece and convinces me on the plan of attack here. I'll glue up the stem, laminate the false stem off it and then plane the wedge off.
    Interesting that the center layer of stem has the protrusion for the outer stem laminating. So what is easier to add a wedge and or plane the protrusion off? I'd have to look at some of the original cutting files for the Ilur.

    The Ilur is doing well...it is always interesting to see how online visibility leads to more people joining in...sort of like a meme effect.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Hamilton, New Zealand
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Hi Clint. When handling that many slippery laminations I appreciated the curve being fixed to the stem rather than having to also grapple with a wedge. One less thing to worry about and easy to plane smooth when done.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Saco, ME
    Posts
    2,314

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    OK will take a look at that tweak.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Hansville, Wa., USA
    Posts
    114

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Hi Wayne, My kit didn't come with the built in "wedge" so I determined where the wedge should be and just taped it in place. No need to worry about fitting it in while doing the bending. Using a wedge can also give a wider surface area to bend against.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Hamilton, New Zealand
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Work continues on the unglamourous but important prep like glassing the centreboard case interior and gluing the strakes together.
    The lower five have been fibreglassed on the inside with peel ply on top of the cloth making for a surface requiring minimal sanding. It's been a little cold and getting a decent soak of the epoxy required some effort.

    IMG_1817.jpg
    The way the ply sheets have been cut has ended up with perhaps the slightly more knotty sheets ending up on the topmost strake. I'm quite keen to leave this one unpainted for asthetic reasons but coincidentce has given me some slightly different wood tones across the two okoume halves in both possible orientations.
    You can just see it here with them both wetted.

    IMG_1822.jpg

    I've tried a test patch of mahogony stain on an offcut and am hopeful an application of that will even out the tone across the length and match it fairly closely with the sapele on the transom and gunwales.
    This has made me think about the visible puzzle joints, which while great mechanically are a little less than traditional to the eye.

    As a result I've veneered over them. The veneer was made with a router cutting down a spare piece of 9mm ply to a 2mm thickness.
    IMG_1827.jpg

    The face of the planks were cut down to a corresponding depth using a straight edge as a guide - half completed here.

    IMG_1830.jpg

    Here's one of the veneers epoxied and sanded in compared to the flipside of the other plank with puzzle joint. The scrap piece in between the pair is ply with the mahogony stain on it. The result is not a single scarf line as per a traditional joint but a little less visible and likely more so once stained. The planks also seem faily strong still.

    IMG_1839.jpg
    in other chores, battens for the floorboards have been cut and should be affixed to bulkheads over the week. All going well some station frames and bulkheads might be erected on the frame this weekend to hint at something boat-shaped.

    Building time is restricted to a half days on the weekends and a little before and after work as life allows. I knocked out my cedar and ply kayak in four months and I've come to enjoy the self-imposed more sedate pace here.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Guerilla Bay, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    155

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Making good progress on making up those planks, well done. When I scarf my planks I did it relatively traditionally with an 8:1 scarf across the plank, with no fibreglassing or peel ply. So far I have done this on 2 hulls and it seems to be working ok, I use Brunyzeel okoume ply btw. If you use good ply and good epoxy I think you could get away without fibreglassing - unless your instructions advise otherwise? If you are keen to continue with veneering that top plank I'd be tempted to feather the edges of the veneer so that you maximise the strength of the edge joint - that plank will bend on the water/trailer............
    Have fun and look forward to seeing the hull !!
    Regards Neil

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Hamilton, New Zealand
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Prep continues with mast steps fitted.

    IMG_1853.jpg

    The centreboard interior has been fibreglassed and coated with graphite laden epoxy as per recommendations on other builds here.

    IMG_1820.jpg

    The board has since been cleaned up and installed between the bulkheads 4 and 7.

    IMG_1852.jpg

    Here's the rest of the hull framing components dry fitted. The fit of the CNC kit is fantastic and any issues were only largely to do with the exceptionally close tolerances involved and easily fixed with a bit of sanding.
    IMG_1856.jpg

    The transom has a lovely rake. It's enough to warrant rousing disinterested yet polite kids and a spouse to come and view it late in the evening with comments like 'look at that!'
    IMG_1858.jpg

    Next steps are fairing the stem and epoxying it all together.
    I've also obtained a very nice Record shoulder plane in anticipation of cutting gains. Like all good tools, it's the sort of thing that after a couple of uses of it you wonder how you ever got on without one.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Guerilla Bay, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    155

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Good work - making great progress :-) That new plane will get a good workout over the next few months. Do you have drains in the bottom of your mast steps? A closed step is fine, but remember that the foot of the mast will swell in the step and you don't want it stuck in there..........

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Hamilton, New Zealand
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Quote Originally Posted by neil.henderson View Post
    Good work - making great progress :-) That new plane will get a good workout over the next few months. Do you have drains in the bottom of your mast steps? A closed step is fine, but remember that the foot of the mast will swell in the step and you don't want it stuck in there..........
    Thanks Neil
    Yep, good suggestion and drains in the maststeps are on the list of small jobs I can get done before work over the course of the week.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Hansville, Wa., USA
    Posts
    114

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Hi Wayne, you haven’t posted in awhile. How’s it going?

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Providence,RI USA
    Posts
    169

    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    It's looking really good. That is a lovely transom rake!

    Mike

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •