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Thread: One Sheet Canoe-Outrigger

  1. #1
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    Default One Sheet Canoe-Outrigger

    Karl-Heinz from Austria built a beautiful Gorewood Canoe with the intention to use it as the vaka for a small sailing trimaran (https://www.canadierforum.de/t14020f...Technik-1.html). He designed his own ama and it looks like he is almost ready for the first sail trail.






    When I saw photos of his outriggers, I started to look into the topic of multihulls in general with the intention to come up with my own design of small outriggers.
    The result of this process is the concept for an outrigger made of one sheet of 3mm plywood, tortured into shape very much like the hull of a plywood Tornado.

    Once again I only dealt with the hull itself which leaves a lot of questions unanswered, but nonetheless I want to share the result.







    Last edited by flo-mo; 06-20-2020 at 02:08 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: One Sheet Canoe-Outrigger

    Video of the 3D model:




    I also was interested to see what the size of a larger version of this design made of two sheets of 4mm plywood would be:


  3. #3
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    Default Re: One Sheet Canoe-Outrigger

    Love what you do with Gorewood and tortured ply and your ama certainly is a massive improvement on the pontoon thingys shown in the first pic. Model configured as a tacking proa also looks neat and then the catamaran probably has the most potential, maybe as a rowing craft or a hydocycle.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: One Sheet Canoe-Outrigger

    I get the feeling that Flo-Mo and Russel Brown really need to have a ply torturing chat over coffee sometime - the combination of talents would be fantastic.

    I don't see any proa configuration in the pics? Still - it would seem straightforward to make an end-to-end symmetrical version of the 2 sheet design unless I am missing something?
    Last edited by Clarkey; 06-20-2020 at 03:10 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: One Sheet Canoe-Outrigger

    The photos of the scale model may be misleading.

    It is one and the same model with two identical hulls (catamaran) and only because of the angle of view it may appear that there is a difference in size.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: One Sheet Canoe-Outrigger

    Quote Originally Posted by flo-mo View Post
    The photos of the scale model may be misleading.

    It is one and the same model with two identical hulls (catamaran) and only because of the angle of view it may appear that there is a difference in size.
    As you say, it is obviously an illusion.Perhaps my eye was led to this by accepting what you said about the shape being intended as an 'outrigger' and because I have very definite ideas about these type craft. Recently I have spent a good deal of time working out ways to propel a double canoe and realised that bilateral symmetry (as with a catamaran) is probably the most feasible configuration in this size range for oar propulsion and that a sliding seat looks to be the ergonomic solution where seat hight and foot placement has to conform to the twin hulls connecting structure.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: One Sheet Canoe-Outrigger

    I'm looking at the designs and seeing the two sheet hull + the one sheet outrigger as a very versatile tacking outrigger canoe..

    Beautiful work.
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

  8. #8
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    Default Re: One Sheet Canoe-Outrigger

    I wonder if you could scale this type of construction up to build a good size catamaran. Looks like you can get a pretty good hull shape with a minimum of work other methods require and possibly get a lighter boat as well.
    "I see!" said the blind man who picked up his hammer and saw.

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    Default Re: One Sheet Canoe-Outrigger

    Quote Originally Posted by emf View Post
    I wonder if you could scale this type of construction up to build a good size catamaran. Looks like you can get a pretty good hull shape with a minimum of work other methods require and possibly get a lighter boat as well.
    How big do you want to go? Thsi two sheet hull is only a little smaller than a Tornado, which is a decent sized beachcat, which does however have fuller sections toward the stern and volumetric increase in comparison, along with more rigidity from it's more rounded contours.If you are considering something in the 20-30ft range, then I guess you are pushing the scantlings a bit far for a skin-only structure and are going to need reinforcement in the way of stringers and bulkheads.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: One Sheet Canoe-Outrigger

    Quote Originally Posted by emf View Post
    I wonder if you could scale this type of construction up to build a good size catamaran. Looks like you can get a pretty good hull shape with a minimum of work other methods require and possibly get a lighter boat as well.
    These hulls are not good to be cat hulls. The developmant went to more modern hulls. But they are good as trimaran amas if you head towards cruising and a smooth behavior in waves.

    If you like performance catamarans look at Phil Branders designs, for example his Formular 16 design "Blade". This is also tortured ply and suitable for home builders.

    Have fun, Michel

  11. #11
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    Default Re: One Sheet Canoe-Outrigger

    High volume outriggers give you lots of stability and you can therefore carry much more sail and become faster. The issue is that they are also very stable upside down and righting from inverted is difficult. The Weta trimaran floods one of the outriggers so it can sink. They use a hatch on the transom so when righted the water can come out. Just saying because this has to be a design consideration.

    The alternative is to limit the volume of the outriggers to something that the crew can easily sink by standing on

    http://tinkboats.com

  12. #12
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    Default Re: One Sheet Canoe-Outrigger

    POst#10 alludes to the trend toward less rocker and a flattish run of the bottom toward the transom (providing some planing ability) and the stem having the typical reverse rake that maximises length on the water and also or invariably has wqter-shedding deck contours. Whereas post#11 sees a possible usefulness in the loss of hull volume, inherent with the rounded V section.Keepingthe elegant lines (shown above)i probably worthwhile for a wooden craft, along with elegant bright-finish wooden connecting beams.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: One Sheet Canoe-Outrigger

    Lugalong,

    I haven't heard about your progress in a catamaran, sliding seat, row boat. Perhaps you could send a PM so we don't hijack this thread.
    I'm still interested.

    Marc

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugalong View Post
    As you say, it is obviously an illusion.Perhaps my eye was led to this by accepting what you said about the shape being intended as an 'outrigger' and because I have very definite ideas about these type craft. Recently I have spent a good deal of time working out ways to propel a double canoe and realised that bilateral symmetry (as with a catamaran) is probably the most feasible configuration in this size range for oar propulsion and that a sliding seat looks to be the ergonomic solution where seat hight and foot placement has to conform to the twin hulls connecting structure.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: One Sheet Canoe-Outrigger

    emf,

    The first post said these shapes were based on the plywood Tornado. That was a 1960's catamaran.
    One of the fastest daysailors ever built. And light at 360# with 235 sq ft of sail.
    Was an Olympic class for years.

    Quote Originally Posted by emf View Post
    I wonder if you could scale this type of construction up to build a good size catamaran. Looks like you can get a pretty good hull shape with a minimum of work other methods require and possibly get a lighter boat as well.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: One Sheet Canoe-Outrigger

    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    Lugalong,

    I haven't heard about your progress in a catamaran, sliding seat, row boat. Perhaps you could send a PM so we don't hijack this thread.
    I'm still interested.

    Marc
    Upchurchmr, I get you on avoiding a thread derailment here and would be glad to gen you up by PM on my effort re rowing double hull craft, but have to make use of good weather right now and only have time for a few words - rowing without the complication of a sliding seat is where I am headed and will have more to say and show on this in a posting to the outrigger and proa thread soon.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: One Sheet Canoe-Outrigger

    Quote Originally Posted by flo-mo View Post
    When I saw photos of his outriggers, I started to look into the topic of multihulls in general with the intention to come up with my own design of small outriggers.
    The result of this process is the concept for an outrigger made of one sheet of 3mm plywood, tortured into shape very much like the hull of a plywood Tornado.

    Once again I only dealt with the hull itself which leaves a lot of questions unanswered, but nonetheless I want to share the result.


    Hello Flo-Mo,

    what angles do you achieve and where are tey located?

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