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Thread: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

  1. #246
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    yeah - the timber was pretty black last time i went in there. I didn't pick any rot, even with a good prodding. It was softer than the keel forward - but being very wet may have a part to play there.
    The powerhose took off a little paint 50mm up on the right of the bilge. Otherwise its solid as far as i can see.

    I'll see about sanding it soon and the exposure should help with drying out.
    I also ducted an exhaust fan into that area - hopefully the circulating air will have a desired effect.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  2. #247
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Now - an interesting decision......

    the fiberglass comes in 51kg rolls, about 90m long at 1.2m wide.
    I can't lift a 51kg roll ..... of those dimensions........


    If they unroll it, to cut it in two, at the 45m mark - it'll cost me double. They'll sell it to me at the retail, per meter, price.

    So I'm thinking a roller frame attached to my trailer - it would help with dispensing it at the time too.



    OR

    They can have the manufacturer slit the roll up the middle into 2x 600mm wide rolls for $40.

    600mm strips, more work, probably more epoxy by a small margin, but sooooo much easier to handle..... I think it wouldn't necessarily mean double the time.

    I am very tempted.
    what do you guys think?
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  3. #248
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    It takes 2 people to hold a 1200 wide sheet and another person, ideally, to start rolling on the resin. If you won't have a few helpers then I'd definitely get it cut to 600. As you'll be butt joining and staggering the joins, it won't make any difference to the amount of resin.

    The roller frame on the trailer, with a vinyl cover, is a really good idea.
    Rick

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  4. #249
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Continued my sole cleaning.
    Into oiling, three coats of tung oil in the end.

    IMG_7382.jpg

    IMG_7383.jpg

    I love the finish tung oil gives. Satin shine but seems to keep the patina. Its an honest finish.


    Ripped down the old chicken coop.
    Our last chicken died about a year ago and I've been threatening to reclaim all that DF back.

    If you squint really hard you can see its actually made up of possibly hundreds of meters of splines.......

    IMG_7358.jpg

    Its rejected oregon from the carriageworks arts venue. i worked there a few years back as Technical Manager. This stuff was a bit too knotty for anything structural I think.
    I held it for ages but again, because of the knots, couldn't find a use for it. When we got chickens i used it for the coop.

    IMG_7372.jpg

    Thats mostly, roughly, 70mm x 40mm rough sawn.
    I cleaned it up with a power hose and I'm sure i got all the staples and screws out. I'll check each one before i runt them through the table saw to clean them further.

    There's patches of bad rot, but if i get 50% of it good, that'll be a fair chunk of the splinning.
    It's all hosed and sitting under a tarp at the moment.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  5. #250
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    I'm now the proud owner of a custom made saw with a tapered blade.

    IMG_7385.jpg

    Went to the boat and gave it a try in an innocuous spot - the dead wood.
    Used a crappy old saw i had at the yard.

    It is an unforgiving instrument to use.
    i freehanded the cut and it savaged the timber off.

    IMG_7394.jpg

    At 22mm deep, the opening of the cut ideally would be a fraction less than 4mm, but i got an irregular 6mm the whole length.
    The blade of a circular saw usually becomes its own jig once you're in. But the nature of the carbide tips, which flare out from the blade disk, means any wiggle in the machine just rips off material. If the front goes to the left, the back goes to the right so you get this uneven, irregular, kerf.

    i must admit - this is a real worry.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  6. #251
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    That’s a real bugger, I can’t say that I had that problem with my regular blade. Would it help to take a couple of bites at it rather than chomp straight down to 22mm? I think I’d be gluing up some mock up’s to run a few tests rather than cause yourself any further concern on the hull itself for the moment.
    Larks

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  7. #252
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    I got the saw i'd planned for, a Makita 185mm unit.
    on the bench i drew out two lines. I free-handed one and then set up a guide for the second one.

    The first cut, freehand, gave me similar resuklts to the boat kerf, but at 5mm.
    The second cut, with a guide, gave me pretty much the same result. I think this blade actually needs a track.

    To note, this test was on flat stock, on a bench, hand down. Some curves on the boat, i realised, are so tight that a guide would have to be 30mm+ thick. I really need a freehand solution.

    I played with the tables saw and tried a few variations. The angle of the cut, 3° each side of the blade, won't change, so i aimed to match the opening width of the cut.
    I settled on a 4mm setting on the saw, which gave me roughly a 3.5mm tip to my spline, and a 5mm outer edge.

    glued in with polyurethane glue.

    IMG_7403.jpg

    cleaned up with a plane.

    IMG_7404.jpg

    I haven't cut through it yet. But from the surface its obvious its not the super snug fit i really want. I can achieve a 'hammer home' fit, but the irregular edge is the challenge.

    It might be a case of work quickly and with a confident stroke.
    I also think splines will be cut onsite as needed. I'll make up a little table based on measurements of the widest part of the kerf and adjust as required. Simply bringing a stock of splines may not fit the bill.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  8. #253
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Yes, several runs to get down to 22mm and I'd only run it on a batten. See how you go with some tests but you can always make up a pin guide too.
    Rick

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  9. #254
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    On a happier note, transom is in and the top edge faired.

    yee olde reciprocating saw came back.

    marked up a line using the last two beams.

    IMG_7396.jpg

    kerfed out the bevel, very roughly and then took the chunks away with the saw.

    IMG_7395.jpg

    got out the grinder with a 24grit pad(s)

    IMG_7397.jpg

    And then brought it down the last few mill with a belt sander.

    Pretty happy with the result, really nice fit, there's a clean landing from the last two deck beams, on a line parallel to the center.

    IMG_7398.jpg

    IMG_7399.jpg
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  10. #255
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    And - truely over this farkin rain!

    topsides, away from the scuppers, looking at 15% moisture.
    under the scuppers above the water line its in the 40's.

    below the water line is equally in around the 40's, but under the scuppers, in big patches, its at max saturation at 99.9%.


    So i wrapped it up like a present.

    IMG_7400.jpg

    IMG_7401.jpg
    Last edited by gypsie; 08-17-2020 at 02:02 AM.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  11. #256
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    PS Do a test run with that blade using a guide and cutting into a bit of scrap radiata, just to make sure the blade is okay. Earlier this year I bought a new blade for my drop saw and one side of the blade is out so I get a torn cut on one side and a crisp cut on the other.
    Rick

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  12. #257
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Yes, several runs to get down to 22mm and I'd only run it on a batten. See how you go with some tests but you can always make up a pin guide too.
    Thats a thought, shallow kerf and then strap on some kind of pin guide.
    Maybe grind an M4 bolt to a pointy tip, tapped into the base plate. That could even work for the shallow cut.

    I need a decent punch.......
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  13. #258
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Put lots of alcohol in the punch!
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  14. #259
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    PS Do a test run with that blade using a guide and cutting into a bit of scrap radiata, just to make sure the blade is okay. Earlier this year I bought a new blade for my drop saw and one side of the blade is out so I get a torn cut on one side and a crisp cut on the other.
    That occured to me, that the tips might be out of alignment, so I gave the blade a whirl in the saw and eyeballed the tip.
    Its spot on, perfect alignment. Not the faintest hint of a shadow around the cutters, crisp lines.

    Its an impressive blade. 160mm diameter, hefty metal. Solid as. When I'm finished i can use it as a spare fly wheel on my motor....
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  15. #260
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    And a little jobby; a plug for the raw water intake box thing.....

    this is the culprit for the bizarre hole;
    IMG_7272.jpg

    This is the hole;
    IMG_7273.jpg

    the hole is rabbeted.
    I'll make it in two parts, a bigger plug for the 6mm rabbet, and then the smaller plug.
    I'll dry fit them separately to ensure a snug fit, and then glue them to each other in situ.

    IMG_7393.jpg

    laminating it all with polyurethane glue.
    Will epoxy it into place.

    Need to make a bunch of various sized round plugs for the other through hulls.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  16. #261
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    When I plug holes from unwanted skin fittings, I turn up a round plug with a T profile, on the lathe. I rout out matching holes in the hull or I make a template and use Forstner bits. So, the hole has an outer part that is half the hull thickness in depth. Then I glue it in with epoxy, sand it fair and slightly depressed, then I glass over it.

    If you don't have a lathe, the plug would be easy enough to make with hole saws and a chisel.
    Rick

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  17. #262
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Thanks for that Rick, I was thinking a tapered plug turned on a drill press. Wide end outside and just plug the drill hole in the middle.
    I need to clean up the holes in the hull, so tapering them roughly the same angle would be easy. Plenty of thick goop and she should be sound.

    i like your idea of the T cross section. I did something like that when i removed the speed transducer - but i made it in two sections; a tight plug and a cap glued over it.

    Glassing over is moot, for obvious reasons.
    Last edited by gypsie; 08-17-2020 at 10:09 PM.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  18. #263
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    I went with tapered plugs for the through hulls.

    IMG_7423.jpg

    Used an oversized hole saw to pull out the plug. Stuck a bolt through the hole and ran it on the drill press using a rasp to bring it down.
    Estimated about 1mm undersized at the thin end, and 2mm or so over sized at the fat end.

    Plenty of goop and pushed it into the hole, tapped it in to almost flush. Bit of a mess on the outside, but neat on the inside.
    The plugs are 30mm deep, for a 28mm planking. Even at that, down in the bilge, some didn't get all they way through. Some thick planks down there.

    I'll drill out the 6mm hole to 10mm and epoxy in a plug. Little bit of double handling in the plug front.
    Last edited by gypsie; 08-23-2020 at 08:05 PM.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  19. #264
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    had another stab at trial running the splines.

    Here's the result of the first attempt. Looks not so hot from the top, but the cross section looks pretty good. I'd be happy with that.
    Guided cut on the left, freehand on the right.

    IMG_7425.jpg

    then i did it once more, just for the hell of it.

    First, freehanded once more. That was a bit of a disaster and a bit frustrating. I experienced a kind of prop-wash as the saw got sucked sideways and took out a heap of material.
    Second one i fixed a guide again - and similar result to before - 5mm slot for the 4mm hole. I think that's just the reality of the cut and it appears to be repeatable/predicatble.

    feeling a bit cross at the time i cut out an oversized spline, 6mm top for the 5mm hole, slathered it with glue and hammered it home.

    IMG_7424.jpg

    The the penny dropped.
    i'd been struggling with justifying the tapered cut/spline. I wasn't convinced that a parallel cut/spline could not do the same job.
    In my mind i'd been conceiving of this as a cabinet makers process, of a neat cut and the spline dropping into a perfect fit. This is something a parallel cut could achieve.
    But then, as i was thumping the oversized spline home, I realised that this is the great advantage of the tapered shape. You can force an (slightly) oversized spline into the tapered slot. This also achieves the tight fit the PU glue requires.

    In this instance the spline went in opposite a previous trial and split the stock - I'm not worried about this. It does speak to the fact that the splines do replace the caulking in all its functions - including locking the boat into shape - hence stiffening it up.
    It is such a tight fit its hard to identify the spline in of the cut.
    The spline on the top left, the two lumps are the glue squeeze out. The crack at the bottom left is where the stock split. (The cut on the right is the squirley freehand attempt).

    IMG_7437.jpg

    This feels like a major conceptual hurdle to get over. Feeling much happier about this process all of a sudden.
    Last edited by gypsie; 08-23-2020 at 08:45 PM.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  20. #265
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    the ends of the cuts represent a problem. Because i must stop before i cut through the stem, for example - must stop at the rabbet, there's material 'left' in the cut.
    I made up a fid to represent this.

    IMG_7438.jpg

    My thinking is, i either taper the ends of the splines so they conform to the cut.
    Or, in the image above, i've made up a little jig to take my plunge router and just carve out a 4mm parallel slot, as demonstrated.

    There are tapered router bits, but not quite the same taper - and they are expensive, considering i might go through a few.
    The 4mm bits are $15 each in Bunnings and with a rub of some sandpaper to take some edge off the spline at that point, and a jam fit, will be fine. I can replace as needed.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  21. #266
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    had another stab at trial running the splines.

    Here's the result of the first attempt. Looks not so hot from the top, but the cross section looks pretty good. I'd be happy with that.
    Guided cut on the left, freehand on the right.

    IMG_7425.jpg

    then i did it once more, just for the hell of it.

    First, freehanded once more. That was a bit of a disaster and a bit frustrating. I experienced a kind of prop-wash as the saw got sucked sideways and took out a heap of material.
    Second one i fixed a guide again - and similar result to before - 5mm slot for the 4mm hole. I think that's just the reality of the cut and it appears to be repeatable/predicatble.

    feeling a bit cross at the time i cut out an oversized spline, 6mm top for the 5mm hole, slathered it with glue and hammered it home.

    IMG_7424.jpg

    The the penny dropped.
    i'd been struggling with justifying the tapered cut/spline. I wasn't convinced that a parallel cut/spline could not do the same job.
    In my mind i'd been conceiving of this as a cabinet makers process, of a neat cut and the spline dropping into a perfect fit. This is something a parallel cut could achieve.
    But then, as i was thumping the oversized spline home, I realised that this is the great advantage of the tapered shape. You can force an (slightly) oversized spline into the tapered slot. This also achieves the tight fit the PU glue requires.

    In this instance the spline went in opposite a previous trial and split the stock - I'm not worried about this. It does speak to the fact that the splines do replace the caulking in all its functions - including locking the boat into shape - hence stiffening it up.
    It is such a tight fit its hard to identify the spline in of the cut.
    The spline on the top left, the two lumps are the glue squeeze out. The crack at the bottom left is where the stock split. (The cut on the right is the squirley freehand attempt).

    IMG_7437.jpg

    This feels like a major conceptual hurdle to get over. Feeling much happier about this process all of a sudden.
    Yes, this is a jam fit, which is what you want.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  22. #267
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    the ends of the cuts represent a problem. Because i must stop before i cut through the stem, for example - must stop at the rabbet, there's material 'left' in the cut.
    I made up a fid to represent this.

    IMG_7438.jpg

    My thinking is, i either taper the ends of the splines so they conform to the cut.
    Or, in the image above, i've made up a little jig to take my plunge router and just carve out a 4mm parallel slot, as demonstrated.

    There are tapered router bits, but not quite the same taper - and they are expensive, considering i might go through a few.
    The 4mm bits are $15 each in Bunnings and with a rub of some sandpaper to take some edge off the spline at that point, and a jam fit, will be fine. I can replace as needed.
    I'd probably finish the groove ends with a chisel. If it ends up a bit rough, you can always use epoxy rather than poly up there.
    Rick

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  23. #268
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Plan at the boat this weekend, some odd jobs; the bolt holes for the sole - i filled with epoxy, I'll drill out and tap for the M6 bolts. And some other odds and ends. Kind of running out of little jobs (when does a boat owner say that!!)

    Big one was to fasten the transom knee, the replacement beam, CPES the lot and make ready to glue in and paint.

    here's the original bolts that i reused, Monel just a smidge under 10mm - maybe 23/97ths or something. They've been tapped into round heads, and maybe silver soldered in (they don't move).

    IMG_7426.jpg

    Drilled up through the horn timber - which is tricky doing solo. But it came out just fine.
    I won't bolt to the transom - I'll wait till i have a backstay chain plate that i'll bolt through the transom and the knee.

    Here's its dry fitted. Looks like a bought one.

    IMG_7435.jpg

    The beam was fixed in with G14 SS screws and everything was CPES coated. Its sitting like that waiting for me to epoxy in place, then undercoat and paint that whole area.
    I've elected to put the exhaust out through the hull - visible from the cockpit, and the bilge pump out through the opposite side of the hull.
    Last edited by gypsie; 08-23-2020 at 09:09 PM.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  24. #269
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    I'd probably finish the groove ends with a chisel. If it ends up a bit rough, you can always use epoxy rather than poly up there.
    Yeah, I was thinking something like that - leave the last 100mm empty and come back, router out, fill with small spline and epoxy.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  25. #270
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Ripped up a piece from the chicken coop.
    A few mill off the outside, its very usable stock. There are ends that have serious rot, but through the length of the spar it appears mostly good.

    IMG_7422.jpg

    The black is a nail hole.
    Last edited by gypsie; 08-23-2020 at 09:37 PM.
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  26. #271
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Best news of the weekend; its drying out!!! Big time.

    Last time i was down i was getting readings in the 60%+ up to 99% under the scuppers.
    I wrapped it up nice and firm, and the humidity has finally dropped off remarkably.

    These readings were all below the waterline. The higher readings are under the scuppers where the wood is still ab b

    IMG_7427.jpg

    into the hardwood first few strakes.

    IMG_7428.jpg

    under a scupper.

    IMG_7429.jpg
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  27. #272
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Other, sunnier, side

    IMG_7431.jpg

    IMG_7432.jpg

    IMG_7433.jpg

    IMG_7434.jpg

    Also, really obvious that some seams are really opening up. Especially at the turn of the bilge and around the deadwood.

    What a difference a week makes!
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  28. #273
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    And one other little job, I trialled a cut again.
    Two passes, 10mm deep and 20mm deep, with a guide (white baton).

    That's just fine. As per the bench test, 5mm slot.

    IMG_7436.jpg

    I am very nervous cutting down here, i have no idea where the bolts are. Just hoping they are more than 20mm inside. What a way to ruin a perfectly good custom made saw!

    its a bit of effort holding the saw against a baton along the top edge of the saw. Will try for one along the bottom. But the sighting of blade/baton is crucial.
    Must buy some long lengths of pine today and rip out a few different guide batons.

    Next weekend, i start cutting out slots!!!
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  29. #274
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    also started to fair the lead ballast - pretty dinged up and there's various fillers in there. clearly some epoxy with 417 fairing compound which hasn't held all that well.
    Went at it with a grinder and sanding pad.
    Then some Shelley's two part bog - for car bodies.

    Big job will be lifting the boat to move the dunnage.....
    Half terrified, half can't wait
    As I'm doing it, i might raise the whole boat a 100mm just to make it easier to get the glass under it when the time comes. Feels weird having 8tns of boat hover above you as you as you mess with the jack - gives me a whole new respect for Leo (Tally Ho) when he did all that work by himself, far more complicated than what i'm doing. I do have an compressor powered jack which means i can raise it via remote control. letting it down however, up close and personal.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  30. #275
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Best news of the weekend; its drying out!!! Big time.

    Last time i was down i was getting readings in the 60%+ up to 99% under the scuppers.
    I wrapped it up nice and firm, and the humidity has finally dropped off remarkably.

    These readings were all below the waterline. The higher readings are under the scuppers where the wood is still ab b

    IMG_7427.jpg

    into the hardwood first few strakes.

    IMG_7428.jpg

    under a scupper.

    IMG_7429.jpg
    People hate these westerlies but if you're trying to dry a boat out or doing a boat delivery, they're great. We should get at least another big westerly system before the spring thunderstorms kick in so let's hope it does the job for you.
    Rick

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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Yeah - i love sailing this time of year - water's as flat as a tack off the East coast, wind is moderate (when its moderate - blowing hard yesterday), reach up and down the coast at will.
    Hate to miss it.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  32. #277
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    Jul 2007
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Best news of the weekend; its drying out!!! Big time.

    Last time i was down i was getting readings in the 60%+ up to 99% under the scuppers.
    I wrapped it up nice and firm, and the humidity has finally dropped off remarkably.

    I’d been thinking of your splining job and wondering how the well your drying was going while sadly watching more of my glued seams open up - especially this last week with persistent strong dry westerly winds blowing through......great for you, disheartening for me.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  33. #278
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    Jun 2010
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    I’d been thinking of your splining job and wondering how the well your drying was going while sadly watching more of my glued seams open up - especially this last week with persistent strong dry westerly winds blowing through......great for you, disheartening for me.
    Thats a bummer mate. You phsyce yourself up for a job and then it grows and grows.

    I have also seen the light with the tapered splines, allowing a jam fit has its advatages, especially if the boat has more drying to do post splining.
    The tapered blade is available for loan post my job, if you want to consider it.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  34. #279
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Yep, I lined all our ceilings in the house with t & g and it all opens up around the edges at this time of year too. But at least it doesn't have to keep water out!
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  35. #280
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    Mar 2015
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    Perth, Western Australia, Australia
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    1,999

    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Yep, I lined all our ceilings in the house with t & g and it all opens up around the edges at this time of year too. But at least it doesn't have to keep water out!
    Must have a quality roof over there, Rick!
    http://fairmaid.blogspot.com.au/

    "It's dawning on me that I should have worked out the tumbler details more in advance, rather than rely on bluster and over confidence. But that's just silly." Jim Ledger.

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