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Thread: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    I’d be interested in seeing a full profile photo Phill.

    Looking at the stem, from what we can see in these pic's, I don’t get the feeling that more planks have been added at some stage unless the stem was replaced as well - or unless you can see a scarf in it suggesting that it’s been lengthened/heightened?

    Besides, she sort of just “looks” in proportion as she is - though again that’s only based on these photos...
    Larks

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  2. #37
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    Larks, this is the closest thing I have to a profile pic.
    And until now I didn't notice yet another dolphin
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  3. #38
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    Quote Originally Posted by mermod View Post
    Larks, this is the closest thing I have to a profile pic.
    And until now I didn't notice yet another dolphin
    You can see from the colour changer on the coaming that she originally looked like this:

    Untill that plywood shed was dumped on top.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  4. #39
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    I think she’s a wonderful and lucky little boat!
    A goofy lookin cabin on the outside can be primo real estate from the inside !

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    Profile picture shows how beautiful Ipacia really is!
    The cabin design goes with the rest of the boat. I second Bruce on this - having roof over your head in such a small boat is priceless, a gold for overnight trips! I hope the engine will be salvageable. That would be an icing on the cake.
    Absolutelly love it !
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  6. #41
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    All the feedback is very much appreciated, even though I can't proceed until the new workshop and house are built I'm still formulating a plan of what I'd like to do with her.
    I'm thinking of glass sheathing her with the first layer being monel stapled to the hull, I know there are differing opinions on this but this method seems logical......to me anyway.
    I would like to keep her on a trailer, so I would need to have the mast on a tabernacle, I'm not sure of the stresses involved but I would expect to need to reinforce the cabin roof, has anyone here done this?
    As for propulsion she will need a new engine, no two ways about it, I haven't priced any yet so I'm expecting a nasty shock when I do, alternatively I have seen a couple with outboards mounted on brackets.
    So that's the plan so far, so long as I can keep her floating long enough to get her out of the creek and over to the shore, I'll keep you all posted.

    Phill

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    I wonder if one of these could be worth investigating Phill: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yanmar-1GM1...cAAOSwMmpew0pL
    Larks

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  8. #43
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    Quote Originally Posted by mermod View Post
    All the feedback is very much appreciated, even though I can't proceed until the new workshop and house are built I'm still formulating a plan of what I'd like to do with her.
    I'm thinking of glass sheathing her with the first layer being monel stapled to the hull, I know there are differing opinions on this but this method seems logical......to me anyway.
    I would like to keep her on a trailer, so I would need to have the mast on a tabernacle, I'm not sure of the stresses involved but I would expect to need to reinforce the cabin roof, has anyone here done this?
    As for propulsion she will need a new engine, no two ways about it, I haven't priced any yet so I'm expecting a nasty shock when I do, alternatively I have seen a couple with outboards mounted on brackets.
    So that's the plan so far, so long as I can keep her floating long enough to get her out of the creek and over to the shore, I'll keep you all posted.

    Phill
    Monel? Do you mean monel staples? Fibreglass sheathing will buy you some waterproof time, after which your boat will die from rot. Your boat, up to you. Best to take her hull back to the wood first anyway to see what you have got to deal with.

    Yes, if the mast is keel stepped now, and you want to swap to a tabernacle, you will need to put a post directly underneath the tabernacle extending down to the keel.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Monel? Do you mean monel staples? Fibreglass sheathing will buy you some waterproof time, after which your boat will die from rot. Your boat, up to you. Best to take her hull back to the wood first anyway to see what you have got to deal with.

    Yes, if the mast is keel stepped now, and you want to swap to a tabernacle, you will need to put a post directly underneath the tabernacle extending down to the keel.
    This^
    If you want to sheath her, ensure that the planking and fastenings are absolutely sound, or the sheathing will fail. Having done that then think about whether she even needs to be sheathed. When she has dried out totally use epoxy, not polyester, and ensure that the internal plank surface is absolutely dry and stays that way. Curlew was given a diagonal skin set in epoxy, which made her bombproof.
    Do you want a motor cruiser with auxiliary sail, or a sailboat with an auxiliary motor?
    If you want her to sail well, you need to consider replacing the lost area of centerboard with a deeper keel. The advantage of that apart from internal volume is that you can extend it to form a skeg to make a bottom bearing for a deeper rudder.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  10. #45
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    I’m guessing that’s a typo and you meant dynel rather than monel for the sheathing Phill.

    I think you’re on the right track - she could be a good candidate for sheathing if you want to keep her on a trailer once you have all of her fastenings sound and any rotten timer replaced, as Nick suggests.

    The Huon pine won’t rot under the glass and the problem with keeping her out of the water is that whatever timber the keel is now (Tassie blue gum?) and whatever you use for replacing any deadwood won’t be as dimensionally stable as the Huon pine, so I reckon you’ll always end up with the garboard opening up when she’s out of the water..... as happened on my H28 in the shed.

    In my case I built a bath around the keel to keep it soaked up but I took it away at Christmas to let it dry out so that I could check the keel bolts and any deadwood that I want to replace, and I must say that I have given some thought to sheathing my hull as well. I’m loath to do it because she’ll eventually be full time in the water but she had a strip of glass along the garboard for leaks there, I assume from the different timbers and from drying out a few times before (as the previous owner had said she had).

    Re deck stepping the mast - I can’t speak with much authority on gaff rigs, but she’s not huge so I’d expect it shouldn’t be much of an issue to modify your existing set up and maintain structural integrity.

    You could pretty much literally cut the mast off at the deck and use the cut-off base as a compression post (if the timber is still sound at the foot.)

    Difficult to tell in the photo, but if the mast lines up with the deck beam and that deck head hanging knee (behind the port hole in the pic), you could possibly consider beefing up the deck beam for lateral force, replace the knee with a larger one tho take any lateral load all the way down to the side deck framing and possibly add another hanging knee under the side deck in line with the mast.

    Also beef up the deck a little fore and aft of the mast under the deck head to deal with any possible “pumping”..... My H28 is a deck stepped mast and that’s pretty much just describing my planned set up, which is a bit beefed up from what it was originally when I pulled her apart.


    Then you just need to build yourself a tabernacle to mount the mast.
    Larks

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  11. #46
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    There was an article in Wooden Boat about an older boat being sheathed in glass and epoxy and the glass was not only epoxied in place but also stapled to the hull with monel staples, there's also a book about glassing old wooden boats that makes mention of it, I though it sounded like a great idea, I also recently watched a video from Off Centre Harbour where a guy put 2 layers of biaxial set in epoxy over an old lobster boat.

    I Had never heard of Curlew but you can bet I will be finding out everything I can now

    Lark's
    Your explanation of setting the mast in a tabernacle is pretty much what I was thinking but not having any experience with sailing I thought it was worth asking at the moment I'm not sure what timber the keel will be replaced with but I had heard that Macrocarpa might be a good option for boatbuilding (do tell me if I've been misinformed)

    Phill

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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    I believe Curlew eventually took licks. Cold molding over carvel is a fine idea , but the practicality is that it is slow and uses a ton of epoxy to do right , and if the carvel under goes bad in a spot or three , is much more difficult to repair than a sheathing of dynel.
    I think the most important part of retro sheathing is to have the hull dry and stable, and a good way to stabilize side carvel planks is to add extra seams by way of soil saw kerfs . Literally turning a six inch plank into 3 , two inch planks .
    The stapeling techno he, Alan Vatstisdsomething , had more to do with trying to get polyester resin to stay on the boat. It is an obsolete technique with epoxy. Consider the problems with cloth puckering, sanding discs hitting the mon, and the actual stapler filling with epoxy .
    Last edited by wizbang 13; 06-05-2020 at 06:29 AM.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    I’m not advocating any of this yet, let’s see how she looks as time passes and she gets cleaned up .

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    Cool boat.

    Does it freeze where you are? My boat was sheathed below the waterline & one year I missed getting every bit of water out of the last "pocket" made by the frames right near the horn timber. In February, I was checking the jackstands & noticed a crack. I could literally stick my hand in through the side of the timber & touch the prop shaft inside the boat. Replacing the horn timber eventually led to replacing all the Alaskan Yellow Cedar planks from the waterline down, as they never really dried out & got punky.

    Anyway - sheathing in a cold climate is risky.

    I just have to ask - since you have all those dolphins, I presume you'll bed everything in Dolphinite?
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  15. #50
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    I believe Curlew eventually took licks. Cold molding over carvel is a fine idea , but the practicality is that it is slow and uses a ton of epoxy to do right , and if the carvel under goes bad in a spot or three , is much more difficult to repair than a sheathing of dynel.
    I think the most important part of retro sheathing is to have the hull dry and stable, and a good way to stabilize side carvel planks is to add extra seams by way of soil saw kerfs . Literally turning a six inch plank into 3 , two inch planks .
    The stapeling techno he, Alan Vatstisdsomething , had more to do with trying to get polyester resin to stay on the boat. It is an obsolete technique with epoxy. Consider the problems with cloth puckering, sanding discs hitting the mon, and the actual stapler filling with epoxy .
    They did, they laid her up in a barn in NZ in the warm and dry, so that she did dry out completely. They then overhauled all planking and fasteners. The Carrs recalled that the only downside was cosmetic. They did not sheath with cloth, so the diagonal seams printed through the paint.
    Her keepers at Falmouth Museum still sail her on occasion.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  16. #51
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    Quote Originally Posted by mermod View Post
    There was an article in Wooden Boat about an older boat being sheathed in glass and epoxy and the glass was not only epoxied in place but also stapled to the hull with monel staples,
    - sorry Phill, I read it in the wrong context, thinking you meant the first layer being monel (dynel) - stapled to the hull, not realising that you meant stapling with monel staples.

    I'm thinking of glass sheathing her with the first layer being monel stapled to the hull
    If you wanted to staple it I’d suggest using polymer/fibreglass staples in that case, rather than monel, but I don’t think you should need to staple the cloth and I reckon you could flip the hull anyway and glass her upside down to make life a bit easier.
    Larks

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  17. #52
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    It's a heck of a lot of extra work to retro turn a keelboat upside down just to sheath her.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    Every time I see another dolphin motif I hear this song in my head.......fast forward to 2:37
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqZyqSu4XII

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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    It's a heck of a lot of extra work to retro turn a keelboat upside down just to sheath her.
    But worth the effort when you’re working on the keel, deadwood and fastenings anyway.......
    Larks

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  20. #55
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    But worth the effort when you’re working on the keel, deadwood and fastenings anyway.......
    She is a big lump of boat to flip, and with that cabin, it will not be easy to either flip her or support her well when flipped.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  21. #56
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    It's certainly easier to work on the hull upside down but it is something to flip her over. We flipped over our stripped down 20' cabin cruiser (which is light to begin with) using two gantry cranes. We followed some advice from the forum here and built two hoops into the boat structure to roll her on and support her after she was upside down. That allowed the boat to not sit in the cabin. It worked pretty well.

    You'd probably need much burlier lifting gear than we used, based on the style of construction.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    I would like to add a bit on sheathing here. What Nick has said about drying the hull out is absolutely true. I have seen a number of boats that were sheathed in order, to hopefully save and old boat, fail and so, the glassing, was for naught! Canell and Payne ending up re-building a famous meter boat several years ago that had been glassed for just that purpose. The expense of glassing plus a rebuild was very expensive but in the end a historic vessel was saved! I venture that it might be cheaper to skip the glass and rebuild instead as is needed!
    Jay

  23. #58

    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    Exactly as Jay said.
    This talk of glassing a carvel planked hull is just CRAZY TALK.
    The hull continues to work, the planks swell, the glass zippers, the rain water collects, the boat dies.

    FIX IT PROPERLY.

    PS,
    Nice boat, flick the chicken coop, and restore to original so another piece of our rich boating history lives on.
    We will all thank you for taking custodianship of Ipacia.
    Last edited by Balanda; 06-06-2020 at 04:23 PM.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    + 1! Cheaper and in theory also faster, Jay. At least as long as there is some structural damage causing the problem in the first place.
    There is a bit more to say about the failures. In many cases Polyester was used instead of Epoxy. Polyester doesn't bond well to any wood and particularly bad to wood that has been exposed to saltwater allowing the salt-crystals to settle in the wood.
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  25. #60
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dody View Post
    + 1! Cheaper and in theory also faster, Jay. At least as long as there is some structural damage causing the problem in the first place.
    There is a bit more to say about the failures. In many cases Polyester was used instead of Epoxy. Polyester doesn't bond well to any wood and particularly bad to wood that has been exposed to saltwater allowing the salt-crystals to settle in the wood.
    The issue with glass is that the planks cannot be allowed to move or the glass will zipper along the seams (in which case why glass it at all) or the glass has to be so strong - thick that the wood becomes redundant.
    Glass is good as an abrasion-resistant basis for a glossy paint finish on a double or triple skinned hull, as could have been done with Curlew and will be done with Dody's ketch.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    Subscribing...

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    Not a lot of progress but we spent most of today lightening Ipacia before we try and remove her, as you can see from the pics we removed the rigging and mast but also removed the engine and those darned heavy batteries, unfortunately high tide was far too late to hang around and see how she now floats but I plan to get out there tomorrow and see.

    She looks a bit bare now
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    When we started this I did think it would be cool if there was a coin under the mast like you hear about on some restorations but never gave it a second thought, after lugging the mast across the river today I noticed a coin sized dent in the base of it but no coin, a quick feel around in the bilge and I could feel something embedded in the mast step but had to pop it out with a chisel, sure enough I found this.........
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  29. #64
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    That’s cool!!! Great find.

    And that first photo with the sunset is a definite keeper.
    Larks

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  30. #65
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    I'm looking forward to the transformation, keep up the good work!

    That coin is probably silver....should be worth a bob or two!
    Money may not buy happiness, but it can buy a boat that will pull right up next to it!

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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stiletto View Post
    I'm looking forward to the transformation, keep up the good work!

    That coin is probably silver....should be worth a bob or two!
    An early shilling (1910 to 1944 -termed “pre”) contains 92.5% silver and 7.5% copper and should weigh 5.65g. It’s actual silver weight is .1680tr oz. At the time of writing this article (March 2013) a “pre” Australian shilling is worth $4.62
    Larks

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  32. #67
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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    An early shilling (1910 to 1944 -termed “pre”) contains 92.5% silver and 7.5% copper and should weigh 5.65g. It’s actual silver weight is .1680tr oz. At the time of writing this article (March 2013) a “pre” Australian shilling is worth $4.62
    Guess I'll have to fund the restoration some other way then

    Phill

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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    Quote Originally Posted by mermod View Post
    Guess I'll have to fund the restoration some other way then

    Phill
    Besides, there is no place in the world that coin should go other than right back under that mast when it goes back in.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Besides, there is no place in the world that coin should go other than right back under that mast when it goes back in.
    Agreed


    Phill

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    Default Re: Saving Ipacia (hopefully)

    Yesterday was all about putting a bilge pump in Ipacia at high tide to see how long it would take to empty any water she was holding and to see just how high I could get it before we move it over to the trailebr /> I'll put up 3 pics, for comparison, 1 when we found her, 2 after filling some seams and removing some of the weight and 3 how she sits as of yesterday.....
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