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Thread: Small marine diesel install

  1. #1
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    Default Small marine diesel install

    http://www.gartsideboats.com/faq/sha...-assembly.html

    This is a thread that Im starting seperate to my build so its easier to find.

    Ive purchased a Nanni Diesel N2:14 which is an upgraded 10 hp unit but very similar size.
    Im fitting it in an Oughtred Grey Seal 22 build here

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-Iain-Oughtred

    anyway Ive made the initial start on boring the shaft log to take the fglass sterntube which Im building according to a page on Paul Gartsides site- link above at top.
    after a bit of searching Ive found some electrical conduit which has same outer diameter as cutlass bearing which Ive installed on a dummy shaft between v-blocks.
    several wraps of masking tape are used to get dummy shaft up to internal diameter of conduit.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Andrew Donald; 05-28-2020 at 02:27 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Cont.....

    in the previous photo you can see closest camera waste conduit, cutlass, and sterntube conduit liner which remains inside sterntube.
    Both pieces of conduit are 5min araldited to cutlass with pin sized dabs of the glue so that when the bearing needs changing it can be easily pulled. The cutlass is coated with Vaseline.
    I prepared some 420gr x 3” biaxial tape and wet it out on a sheet of plastic, wrapped whole assembly one end to the other then put on a piece of peel ply.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Andrew Donald; 05-28-2020 at 02:29 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Cont.....

    next two pics are whole lot wrapped and peel plied. I wrapped glass tape in a spiral, 2nd pic.
    C3FA1AAF-6E2E-4FF8-B46F-3AF4696F3122.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    I bought an "off the shelf" Vetus tube, but only as it was almost bang on the size i wanted, and came with a fitted aft bearing to suit the shaft. I believe i would make one god-awfull mess with a roll of tape and a bucket of resin.....

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Subscribed!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Cool. Thanks for sharing.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    First slaughter your ox ...

    Looks great Andrew!
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    A friend of mine is building his first motor boat, though he is very expert in timber work and carpentry. He started with the Gartside design for sterntube and ended up buying the Vetus tube.

    For Bella I went to the local metalworkers and bought a stainless steel tube, got the metalworkers to fashion a sternpiece so that I could bolt it to the deadwood. The tube lies in a square slot which was cut in the upper and lower parts of the deadwood, with slot filled with epoxy. 2 cutlass bearings in the tube with a Volvo dripless seal (needs burping every launch but I'm used to it now) on the inner end - works really well.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Well what a stress riser today. Instead of 420gr 3” tape we went with 300gr fibreglass cloth about 1000x 900mm wet out on a white sheet of plastic (use something dark would be better) . Two of us picked up the mess and tried starting the edge straight on the tube. Ha, Murphy was having none of it. Started rolling tube (Put a handle on it) around while we held one edge each but all it did was trap air and excess epoxy under. Take 2 was no better but eventually on about the fourth go we let the cloth hang once it was started Which sorta kept tension on it and kept winding with epoxy gloves ( no grip) while stroking the hanging mess downwards. That seemed to work pretty well cos the excess was oozing out Which is where the aforementioned epoxy gloves came in, wiped along the roll and smear it somewhere , $&expletive($! anywhere!!
    This round was calculated to add about six layers Which roughly measures a smidge over 45 mm. I need 50.
    Next time will be back to the tape, way easier to handle while soaked with the goo!
    420 biaxial gape>>
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Andrew Donald; 05-29-2020 at 02:18 AM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Here’s a picture of today’s “progress”
    E8126D25-C4D1-43EE-8E9E-3F7FF30CFE36.jpeg
    Only tomorrow will tell if it’s any good! Hopefully one more round with a few metres of the tape. Perspective has stuffed the measure angle but it’s just over 45mm. Luckily I’ve got a “cooperative”wife , when it comes to boats, who lets me bring smelly toxic things into the nice warm house to go off.
    see you’se tomorrow
    Last edited by Andrew Donald; 05-29-2020 at 02:05 AM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    This will be very educational.
    Ian
    Old Joke: A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship.
    Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

    ...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.
    Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Geez that was an adventure, wrangling epoxy slimed tape and fabric is over and I’m now the proud owner of a new fibreglass shaft -tube.

    0800D611-2777-4A21-A71F-3B0EA55BE222.jpg3C435C12-A466-4E85-80B2-A94C2061BDB9.jpg

    as you can see in photo the aft end is thickened to about 60mm so that it can have enough meat for set screws to hold cutlass from spinning.
    I fired up the belt sander to get a bit more roundness to the tube, worked ok in jig.
    next up is to glue the tube into the boat, but before that I have to work out alignment with engine beds. Unfortunately the shaft doesn’t run in same plane as engine mount bases.
    When I built the keel and shaft log originally I cut shallow grooves into both pieces of log that were glued together with a knotted string in the groove. When the glue was half set I ran the string back & forth like a pull-through to clear the gunge..
    this log was set at what I thought was the appropriate angle in the deadwood/keel.
    Once the hull was together that groove eased the drilling out with a bit welded up with a HSS bit and a piece of steel rod.
    Turns out I can gain a bit of room by angling down the shaft a bit. This is where I hope to put the talents of a boring-bar to use and offset it in the existing hole so I can steer the shaft on its new route
    61A30BFC-CEC5-47B9-A2A1-5DF4693A44E5.jpg6CA0B06D-4FF0-4472-A28D-736E2618E436.jpg
    sorry that first pic is u-s-d.
    second pic shows the dummy engine beds to experiment with the angles using jigs made by taking measurements from engine drawings (double checked on real thing of course)

    ’til next time ...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Andrew Donald; 06-04-2020 at 04:39 AM.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    I went and stole a couple of pictures off Paul Gartsides site to illustrate what it is I’m aiming at

    036C313A-5785-4F64-9CF1-F1C985A449B0.jpeg

    and this is the final result at the prop, where you see the glass tube coming out of the stern post just enough to make set screws accessible

    F423CE21-5BB0-49BE-97BA-15F50FA4FF3A.jpeg

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Plan on room for a sacrificial anode? ("zinc")

    Will you use a prop nut type?

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    .....or space for a rope cutter?

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Plan on room for a sacrificial anode? ("zinc")

    Will you use a prop nut type?

    Kevin
    nut job

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    .....or space for a rope cutter?
    hadnt thought about that Ian

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    I just had an email for R and D ropecutter $600 aud.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Andrew, you don't need a rope cutter! But you should put an anode on the shaft. Are you using a Polytech flexible coupling?
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Yeh you’re right Rick , probably more a European thing anyway. I’ve thought about a Flexi-thingo such as the R& D but I’ve decided to go the route that says something like - of the the three points of contact between engine and prop, you can either go all solid or just do any two/three. Three being mounts, coupling and shaft seal. I’ve got a solid coupling but flex mounts and PSS seal. Anode along with prop nut.
    im gonna use shock cord for mooring so I don’t need to worry about lines in water

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Shock cord for mooring? What sort of mooring will you have?
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    I meant lines for tying up at a pontoon.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    I'm certainly no expert on this stuff but the flexible coupling, such as Polytech, has two purposes. It dampens vibration and electrically isolates the prop, shaft and water from the engine. The shaft anode is designed to prevent prop and shaft corrosion but I think with a solid coupling, your anode will also be protecting the engine too. Will it be enough?

    When we aligned Masina's engine, with its Polytech coupling, we went to a lot of effort to get it right. I should think with a direct coupling, it'll need to be perfect!

    I think I'd prefer a flexible coupling. They're not tooooo expensive.
    Last edited by RFNK; 06-05-2020 at 03:23 AM.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Donald View Post
    I meant lines for tying up at a pontoon.
    I see! Will you keep the boat on a marina?
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Present plans are home based

    yeh I don’t know if I have the patience for being that fussy with alignment, but I’m leaving that option open. I’ll see if I can get a long key way cut at the coupling end so I can cut a bit more off shaft to fit the Flexi in.
    didnt think about isolating the “junk”From the engine. Engine has its own anode, which I thought was to protect the dis-similar metals on the seawater side. Haven’t looked where it’s fitted, somewhere around the exhaust outlet I think.
    R&D sell a metal doova to connect through the plastic of Flexi.
    Last edited by Andrew Donald; 06-05-2020 at 03:15 AM.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    So, I guess the prop sits between the hull and the rudder so you can't just hang the prop out a bit further? If you could, then you have space for a flexible coupling and a shaft anode. A prop nut anode is okay but has to suit the shaft and prop that you have.

    Mooring lines need to have some elasticity but I don't like the idea of shockcord because the lines have to actually tie the boat to the wharf. Shockcord can't be worked to bring the boat alongside and it's not easy to tie reliably to a cleat or bollard.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Shock cord was a joke Rick so the lines would retract onboard and Not get in prop. Bit lame.

    i just re-read the Nanni install booklet (French-lish) but it looks like they say with flex mounts and flex-seal you can go either a rigid or flex coupling. I’m just looking at the PolyFlex site and I may give them a call to see $$$. More advantages than just the alignment ones.
    im hoping to get the prop in the centre of opening but I could maybe move it 1/2” for/aft.
    i was supplied an overlong shaft which I have to cut to my length and have a key way machined into it. So if the Flexi isn’t too much it’s prob better to go with it.
    The budget is being curtailed a bit now so I’ve even gone off the idea of lithium too. Was an experiment anyway, no-one was game enough to garantee if it was going to work. Would have been good in an ideal world.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Hi Andrew,
    We use polypropylene rope for mooring. It floats. We use nylon rope for anchoring. It sinks.
    Cheers,
    Ian
    Old Joke: A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship.
    Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

    ...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.
    Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Oh! I didn't see your last one.
    Ian
    Old Joke: A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship.
    Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

    ...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.
    Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Good work with the fiberglass stern tube.
    No need for a keyway if you go with a Polyflex 434TC steel half coupling and a 434 flexible disc. Make sure you leave some clearance (say 6mm ) between the aft end of the cutlass bearing and the propeller boss as the engine may move slightly forward on its flexible mounts at full revs.
    Last edited by Neil C; 06-05-2020 at 04:11 AM. Reason: .

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Caught me!

    I looked at lithium too but decided it's still way too much money.

    The coupling is about $250, I think. But, I can have a look and see if Pipsqueak's is still okay. If it is, you can have it. Pipsqueak's engine is a Nanni 10 So coupling ought to be suitable. I'm going for an outboard for Pipsqueak. I'll have a look when home next - a couple of days.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Polyflex, not Polytech ....
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Thanks all the same Rick but for that sort of purpose I think I’d rather go with a new unit. If it blows up could be all sorts of botheration.
    Thanks

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    They don't really blow up but I think I'd also go with a new one!
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Hi everyone ,
    today was a milestone after much gooing of the shaft tube as above, which has been waiting for me on bench. Another first-time-job was using the boring bar to enlarge shaft tube out to 50mm and 60 at the aft 130 length.
    I followed Paul Gartsides instruction mostly and have only emailed him once! Very prompt and helpful he is too.
    for the cutters on boring bar I used 1/4” drill bits cut down which I found actually using the spiral end of bit better especially when I put drill in reverse cos it cut way better. Once I stepped up to cutting the 60mm diameter I used 5/16” bits for cutters on Paul’s advice. Quite right too. Definitely advisable to use locktite on grub-screw for cutters!
    E4FA8786-76B5-474C-B510-FE8E7C916427.jpg

    and now for moment of truth, fitting the shaft tube in deadwood.

    BD47470E-B67E-4D0D-8C7B-92BBFD2033DA.jpegD3BCA6B4-A03A-45D6-B999-8EB17CF5F327.jpeg

    where my finger is above the glass gets cut off at rear of cutlass bearing, in there somewhere! and remove that dowel.
    Below you can see where the tube comes out inside the boat, thank god I got the length right. Glass gets cut back ‘til there’s enough to fit the seal on.
    8772A8B9-E54C-4F29-856B-1216AC8AB2A1.jpg
    Last edited by Andrew Donald; 06-12-2020 at 07:17 AM.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Small marine diesel install

    Working on the propellor aperture last few days. Boy this is stressful this measure thirty times and hope-to-**** Cut once business. Any way way all looks good so far with the rudder on/off umpteen times ( it has its opening cut already)

    36202BD1-DCC5-4B0C-9550-18EA3F015284.jpeg

    after a bit of grinding and sanding I got the water scallops out and glassed. Massaged a square piece of 8oz around all the corners , curves and dips

    6C531427-A4C9-4EEB-A61A-0F169E6818EC.jpg

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