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Thread: An Ilur in Hansville

  1. #666
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Quote Originally Posted by Clinton B Chase View Post
    I think this method of the rubber hose is ingenious but not required on the Ilur kit. The Ilur like a lot of Vivier's and my CB boats, uses a heavy, taught shock cord to swing the CB and keep it in place with the assistance of a shock cord cleat along the top of the trunk. ALso ingenious and Vivier's idea!

    I can just about visualise an over centre type of attachment for wither full up or full down,but the part way position holding isn't obvious.With lots of shallow and tidal waters in my part of the world,these things are quite important.

  2. #667
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Quote Originally Posted by Clinton B Chase View Post
    This is also a great idea, but these cleats don't ship in our Ilur kit because the rudder and CB work with the shock cord system.
    The shock cord system works every well. It really is ingenious in its simplicity, elegance and functionality. In the event you'd like a "half-way-up/down" position for your center board, I think the simplest solution is to leave a midway space in between the two pieces on either side of the truck. If the bungee is set up correctly at the foot of the CB trunk, it will be happy to stay right in that middle position. Pic below of how it looked during construction of Clarisa. I suppose you could create additional slots for more deployment angles. In fact I saw one such example on another one of F. Vivier's newer designs... cannot remember which one.


  3. #668
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Iíve been sidelined from boat work for awhile with other winter chores and stuff. After I laid the glass over the center board I wrapped the outside edges with glass which took several epoxy times to get it all. I had a hard time with the glass around the curves. But, I have a few coats of graphite/epoxy on and several coats more to go. I decided to graphite/epoxy all but the exposed top of the CB which Iíll paint. I also managed to learn a little rope work with a 3 strand crown braid to 12í of 3/16 SS chain onto 120í of 3/8Ē anchor rope for a 8lb Manus anchor; and a 3 strand braid to a thimble onto 80í of 5/16 anchor rope for a 2.5lb Mantus anchor. I back braided the ends of both ropes. Both anchors are quick disconnect for easy stowage. My plan is to use the 2.5lb Mantus for a quick deploy or a ground anchor. Iím not sure yet if Iíll use any chain for the 2.5 anchor.

  4. #669
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Nicely done, I like the rope work. Not sure I will have room for two anchors, but it would be nice to have a smaller one for a ground anchor. Glad you're finding boat-ish stuff to do this winter.

    Ken
    When the desire to learn is greater than the desire to win, the journey becomes the prize.

  5. #670
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    I know itís been awhile since Iíve been on the forum. The winter has proved difficult for much boat work with lots of rain, snow, wind, power outages, and temps in the 20fís. Iíve managed to do a little work by getting my well house both set up to get the job done and then bring the project into the house to cure over night. That way I donít have to keep the heaters cranking out the power all night. When carrying the project back and forth between the garage, house, and well house Iíve had to cover it to keep the rain off. Itís been a marathon project to finish the centerboard and Iím almost done except for applying epoxy/graphite to the G10 pivot rod. As you can see I optioned to epoxy/graphite the CB except for the visible portion that sticks up out of the slot. Iíve also started to get the downhaul sorted. There are at least three ways to run the down haul on an Ilur. You can run it along the port side interior, straight back but under the fore deck, or straight back and over the fore deck. After contemplating these options, I decided on the later because it was the best fit for the way I have my fore deck hatch. I have the line blocks mounted onto an Ash block which is in turn screwed into the aft centerboard aft post and eventually be epoxied onto the CB case. The aft post is only 1 1/8Ē wide so the line blocks needed something else to mount to. Iím going to epoxy, prime, and paint the Ash mount block, and then sand the paint and primer off the area of the CB case so that I can eventually epoxy/screw the mounting block onto the CB case. Until I get the boom all sorted I wonít cut the down haul line.

  6. #671
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Looks like a good setup to me, but then I haven't tried lugsail rig yet.

    Looking forward to seeing her rigged.

    Neil

  7. #672
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Rigging looks fine - cam cleat would be easier if it was on top. Plan shows cam cleat up near the top rail.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  8. #673
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Hi Clint, I did a lot of soul searching on this. If the downhaul is routed under the foredeck then the straight line pull would have the cam cleat up and the pulley block down. Because I decided to run the down haul above the foredeck the straight line pull, it was best to have the pulley block above the cam cleat. I tested the cam cleat function where I have it and it will work for me, especially with the type of cam cleat I have which captures the down haul line.

  9. #674
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Winter sure makes for slow boat work. But itís kind of nice catching up on some reading and lazing around. I have been doing a few things to slowly move forward. I epoxied, primed, painted, and screwed/epoxied the small block for the downhaul gear onto the side of the Centerboard case. Iím trying to finish up the CB by figuring out how to attach the bungy cord that holds the CB ďdownĒ, ďmidĒ, and ďupĒ. I wanted to be able to remove the bungy cord when the boat was out of the water. The Ilur has a hole in the mid CB half floor brace on each side to attach the bungy cord. I decided to use a dyneema soft shackle in the hole and then attach a spring clip onto the bungy cord ends. But, the clips made such a racket when they snapped on the CB case every time the bungy was moved to a new location I opted to just make a loop at each end of the bungy and run the soft shackle through the loop. Its not as easy as unclipping but I can still release the bungy when not using the boat. Per the plans, when the CB is ďupĒ it isnít all the way up, leaving a little bit of it down. I wanted a way to get the CB all the way up and also a way to secure the CB ďupĒ if the main bungy fails. So I installed a hold down on the bulkhead forward of the CB case, attached clips to the ends of another bungy that can be slipped up onto the CB to hold it all the way up. I starting to work on the rudder blade.

  10. #675
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    That anchor system for the CB bungee looks good David.
    I've just run mine straight through the hole in the half frame at that point and tied it off and it seems to have worked. I've had no trouble keeping the board in any position as yet, with the up down and halfway positions seeming to work well in the limited use so far.

  11. #676
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Thanks Wayne, that’s good to know. I’ve used bungy on my last boat and found that it degraded over time. My thought was that if I could undo it easily and keep it from the sun and elements that it would last longer.

  12. #677
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Still working on the rudder. What seemed like a simple job has taken a lot of time. But, it is still winter and Iím in no rush. I wrapped the rudder in cloth and applied many layers for epoxy/graphite. I had already applied layers of epoxy/graphite to the inside of the rudder cheeks where the rudder rubs against it. To get the rudder to swing between the cheeks with just the right amount of play/friction, I added layers of epoxy to the out side edges of the inside of the cheeks. Next up was to epoxy, prime, and paint the out side of the cheeks. For some reason Iím just getting a good paint job, but itís ok for the 20í away rule. Now to fit the top piece of the rudder to match the width of the top edge of the cheeks. Iíll have to add some cloth and layers of epoxy to get the middle part of the top piece to be about 1-1.5 mm wider. When the top piece is done Iím thinking it will just match the width of the tiller which is already made.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #678
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Nice work, looking very neat.
    Focus on the effort not the outcome.

  14. #679
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Thanks Mike!

  15. #680
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    You can feel the water swishing past that rudder blade with the minimum of fuss :-) I have ordered Wests epoxy powder from our local supplier which I will put on my centreboard..................

  16. #681
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    It seems like itís taking me forever to get even small jobs done. But, I am still making progress. The top of the rudder is made ( except for priming and paint and installing the rudder retainer clip) and Iím working out the up haul and down haul lines. The rudder is the long version and with fiberglass and many coats of epoxy/graphite it is pretty heavy. The down haul is a loop of 5mm bungy with just enough stretch to hold it down. The up haul is a little more challenging. Because of the weight of the rudder and the resistance of the 5mm bungy it takes a lot of strength to pull the rudder up. I tried many ways to do it. What Iíve settled on for now is a single line with a loop at the tiller end that I can grab on to hoist it up and a simple knot in the line that I can swing into place in the groove on the rudder head. The knot holds the line and ruder up and itís easy to release. The loop at the top sits in the tiller head groove when the rudder is down.
    In between rudder work Iím getting the tiller Huntingford tiller tamer parts sorted. Iíve been finishing up the 4 wood cleats I made and figuring out where to mount them. Iím glad I took the time to map out where all the screws where in the rails.

  17. #682
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Looks nice! Regarding the strength to lift the rudder - remember the buoyancy of the rudder blade will assist. Also sometimes you end up "feeling" the bottom a bit as you come into the beach and that helps too!
    The 5mm loop of shockcord may be not be quite enough to hold the board down - it is a hard one to test unless you have someone looking over the transom to see if the rudder is "lifting" due to the water streaming by it.
    But try it, that is what sea trials are for.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  18. #683
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Thanks Clint, I hadn’t thought of the buoyancy factor of the water. But the other factor is the ability of the bungy to stretch. This design requires the bungy to stretch a lot. Having tried other thickness’s of bungy, the 5mm is the only one that will stretch enough without to much resistance of the bungy itself. The 5/16”” bungy was impossible to stretch the amount needed. I’m hoping I’ll be able to find the sweet spot between just enough tension to hold the rudder down and still be able to stretch enough without being to much resistance to over come.

  19. #684
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Quote Originally Posted by davidladd View Post
    Thanks Clint, I hadn’t thought of the buoyancy factor of the water. But the other factor is the ability of the bungy to stretch. This design requires the bungy to stretch a lot. Having tried other thickness’s of bungy, the 5mm is the only one that will stretch enough without to much resistance of the bungy itself. The 5/16”” bungy was impossible to stretch the amount needed. I’m hoping I’ll be able to find the sweet spot between just enough tension to hold the rudder down and still be able to stretch enough without being to much resistance to over come.
    If for whatever reason it doesn't work, you could always switch to normal line and an auto-release cam cleat. Plenty of room on the tiller to mount it, and it wouldn't be too hard to route the line up to it.
    Daniel

    Building a Campion Apple 16.

  20. #685
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Thanks Daniel, I learned something today. I didn’t know about auto-release cam cleats.

  21. #686
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Looking good David - will be a smart wee boat this one :-)

    I researched tiller tamers for a while & there are several different types out there. In the end I've gone for one which is ultra simple and just relies on a length of fairly thick shockcord attached across the boat from approx quarter to quarter at the stern and then a strong piece of V shaped timber attached underneath the tiller. Pop the shockcord into the V and voila the tiller is severely braked (depending on shockcord tension). based on a design I saw from a bloke who I think was Dutch. To be fair I haven't tried it on the water yet but I love the simplicity of it. My next challenge is to tame the Norwegian tiller on the CY I am building but there are designs out there for them too.

    Might be worth having a look at jam cleats as well - they seem to be popular with traditionalists..............

    Now you know why the hull build is 50% of the work!

    Regards Neil

  22. #687
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Thanks Neil, have you looked at the Huntingford tiller tamer method? It does have several components, but it is still very simple and is very effective. Itís what Roger Banes uses.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  23. #688
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    That's what I use on my Tammie Norrie, tension is easily adjustable and it works well. Looks complicated but it isn't!

  24. #689
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Quote Originally Posted by davidladd View Post
    Thanks Clint, I hadn’t thought of the buoyancy factor of the water. I’m hoping I’ll be able to find the sweet spot between just enough tension to hold the rudder down and still be able to stretch enough without being to much resistance to over come.
    Exactly - that is the trick! On my Calendar 18 design I actually have a 2:1 purchase for the lifting line which helps a lot, so that is another way to deal with it. You may have already found the sweet spot.
    I have found that the times the rudder wants to "float up" is during the tack. So right after you tack jump back there and see what you have. Is seems that the water resistance is less of an issue because there is a little side force on the rudder once you are sailing the tack.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  25. #690
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Quote Originally Posted by neil.henderson View Post
    Looking good David - will be a smart wee boat this one :-)

    I researched tiller tamers for a while & there are several different types out there. In the end I've gone for one which is ultra simple and just relies on a length of fairly thick shockcord attached across the boat from approx quarter to quarter at the stern and then a strong piece of V shaped timber attached underneath the tiller. Pop the shockcord into the V and voila the tiller is severely braked (depending on shockcord tension). based on a design I saw from a bloke who I think was Dutch. To be fair I haven't tried it on the water yet but I love the simplicity of it. My next challenge is to tame the Norwegian tiller on the CY I am building but there are designs out there for them too.
    This sounds very similar to what I eventually arrived at on my own--a small-diameter line that dead-ends at a cleat on one gunwale, runs through a small bungie loop at the other gunwale cleat, and gets hooked over a small wedge/cleat on the underside of the tiller. Pull the line to the desired tension, then tie it off with a slipped half hitch at the bungie loop. Works great. I leave mine rigged almost all the time, so I can be hands-free at any moment. There's no need to engage or disengage or adjust it in operation--the tension holds the tiller in place wherever you leave it, but there's not enough resistance to stop you from hand steering at any moment you want to.

    tiller cleat.jpg

    Here's a short (20-second) video showing the set-up in action:



    Simpler to set up than the Huntingford arrangement, with less hardware to install, and no need to adjust tension. I really like it. On some of my longer trips I tend to spend 10+ hours a day on the boat, and the ability to be hands-free for most of that time (I often tie off the sheet to an oarlock with a slippery hitch) adds a LOT of comfort and enjoyment for me. It's so cheap and works so well that I've taken to calling it "the $.49 autopilot."

    Tom
    Last edited by WI-Tom; 03-06-2022 at 08:41 AM.
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  26. #691
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    It's all looking very nice, I expect we'll see launch pictures soon.

    For your downhaul and halyard, go as low-stretch as you can afford. I used Dyneema for both on my lugger. The last thing you want to fuss with when it gets a bit sporty is adjusting their tension.

    Watch the turning point on your rudder bungie, once the cover has chafed through the cord degrades quite quickly. Until I got things sorted the rudder on my KDI would pop up of it's own accord, a bit disconcerting to suddenly not have it back there.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  27. #692
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Thanks for the input Steve, No launch pics for awhile. I still have to shape a boom and yard, plus other minor fussy stuff.

  28. #693
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    I had an unexplained paint failure. I put on 4 coats of primer (the same primer I’ve been using) on the rudder head and then put on a coat of Interlux Brightside (the same paint I’ve been using), but that coat of paint never dried. It was still tacky after 12 hours so I left the heat on it all night and it never did dry. I tried a gentle wipe with Interlux 333 but the paint just came off. I ended up sanding it all down again which took off some primer. I don’t know what happened. The paint is down towards the bottom of the can but that shouldn’t matter. I had the rudder head and paint warmed up together, but maybe it was a little to hot. I should probably put on some more primer, but I think I’ll just try another coat of paint and see what happens.

  29. #694
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    I think I figured out the paint fail. The paint was just too thick. It seems that as the paint level got near the bottom of the can it would skim over every time I opened the lid. And, as the level got near the bottom it got thicker. I put on another coat and made sure I spread the paint out with the roller more than I did the last time the paint cured, but it still took over night. I only need a little paint to finish the rudder head so I don’t want to buy another can. I’ll thin the paint so it flows better than screen it into a smaller can. I’ll thin the next two coats a bit and make sure to spread the paint out better.

  30. #695
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Thanks for sharing your findings

  31. #696
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    I took a week off to visit my son and family. Spring is here and I have so much work to do. But, Iím enjoying my winter reading time and my boat work is going slow. I finished to rudder head and have the tiller fitted. I went back and did some proper bedding of the rudder hardware and cleats. Iím starting to work on the Tiller Tamer, and sorting out other minor details. I want to get the boat out of the garage, but first I want to put some clear coats on the mastpartner foredeck. Itís still to cold to do that yet. I also plan to build a lean to roof on the side of my garage to keep the boat under. I wanted to get the boat out of the garage before I shaped the boom and yard, but if I get stalled Iíll just push the boat over a bit and start on the boom and yard.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  32. #697
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    I reached another milestone today. Itís been 2 years since I started the build. The kit was trucked to the street, but they couldnít get up my drive way. I had to unload the kit onto the side of the road and hand carry everything up my driveway and into the garage. Now, after 2 years there isnít much left to do. The boat itself is done except to clear finish the aft deck, side seats, the foredeck, and a few other small pieces. But, I still need to shape the boom and yard, and finish the rigging. I donít mind working at my own pace. At my age (Iíll be 71 in May), itís more about slow and steady and enjoying the process. Iím showing the Huntingford tiller tamer. It took me awhile to find all the pieces

  33. #698
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    If you want a knot that doesn't slip in shockcord I use one called the Zepellin knot - it doesn't slip (so far :-) ).

    Your boat looks as if its crying out for a swim......................nice.

    Regards Neil

  34. #699
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Oh, and the 79 year old just along the road from me is building his 14th boat :-)

  35. #700
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Very nicely done! I doubt people will be able to watch her go by without a second look.

    Ken
    When the desire to learn is greater than the desire to win, the journey becomes the prize.

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