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Thread: An Ilur in Hansville

  1. #561
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Thanks for the input Michael, it seems there are many ways to fix the foredeck in place and many configurations of Ilur’s between kits and non kits. I noticed that your rails are pretty flat up to the bow. Mine have at least a 1/4” sweep up which complicates the fit at the bow end. Everyone seems to fit their foredeck differently and many have run screws down through the rails and epoxied the foredeck in. Have you noticed any problems with having epoxied in your foredeck?

  2. #562
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    The interior is prepped and ready for primer. But, I'm still fussing with how to attach the foredeck. A note to future Ilur builders. The Ilur has a sweep up at the bow for about 10-11" back from the bow. It is very difficult to get the foredeck to fit under the rails and at the same time be flat on the bottom. I managed to get the fit pretty good at the rails, but when I clamped on the Carlins under the foredeck the foredeck boards where about 4mm shy of fitting under the rails. I know this is not just a problem with me or my boat. There are other Ilur builders who have run into the same thing. From pictures I have seen some have left the foredeck shy of the rails and have left a gap. Others have filled the gap between the rails and the foredeck with epoxy. Another option which I used and it looks like it will turn out is to run screws from under the foredeck boards up into the rails to hold the foredeck tight against the rails. Then, I placed the Carlins very close to where they will end up being with enough thickened epoxy between the Carlins and the underside of the foredeck which made a form fit. When the Carlins are finally fastened down they will hold the foredeck up tight against the rails.
    The next thing to decide is just how to attach the foredeck. I know most Ilur builders have epoxied in the foredeck. Some run machine bolts or screws down through the rails, and some have run screws up from underneath the foredeck and into the rails. Even though I didn't want to run screws down through the rails I was prepared to do that until Clint said that wasn't a good idea. He also said not to epoxy in the foredeck, but I don't know why. Every boat build I've seen has fastened the foredeck with either West epoxy thickened, G-flex, 3M 5200, or System three thickened epoxy. He believes that the Carlins alone will be enough to hold the foredeck up. In my first time builder opinion, I just can't see how the Carlins alone will be able to support the foredeck of the Ilur and I don't see how the foredeck will be secure without epoxy or screws into the rails. In my case, I have 3 separate boards as a foredeck. My plans for attaching the foredeck keep changing, but as of now, my plan is to use Total Boat Thixo Flex Flexible epoxy along with the screws from underneath at each end of the most forward and middle boards. For the mast partner board I'll use Sikaflex and run at least 1 machine screw down through the board at each end and into the quarter knee. I might do 2 machine screws down and into the quarter knees on each end or run one up from underneath the quarter knee and into the mast partner board.
    After I leather the mast and get that diameter I'll be able to cut the circle in the mast partner board and get it temp fastened to the boat.
    I'm trying to figure all this out before I prime and paint, because I don't want paint where I might epoxy. For me, deciding what to do always takes longer than doing it. I might even change my plans again if I get feedback that tells me I'm all wet.

  3. #563
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Ok, here's what I do with foredecks:-
    a) seal the underside of the ply before gluing down
    b) Have a cut which runs right up the ply in middle of the kingplank - so the foredeck is in 2 pieces.
    c) attach foredeck using ringnails (nailed into deckbeams and kingplank) glued down using epoxy starting on the centreline and working towards the gunwale
    d) seal and cover foredeck with dynel cloth which overlaps at the sides to seal the outer edge of the deck ply. Paint deck with International deck paint which is dreadfully expensive but brilliant stuff
    e) attach gunwale which seals the edge of the deck, gunwale is screwed to inwale (through planking) and screw holes are plugged with timber plugs, usually made of spotted gum.

    There are lots of different approaches, this is only what I do and so far it seems to work

    IMG_1653.jpg
    Last edited by neil.henderson; 07-18-2021 at 09:53 PM.

  4. #564
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    I'm curious--why cut it in half before installing?

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  5. #565
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Hi Neil, I can see from your picture that your foredeck process is the best for your boat design. Unfortunately, the Ilur design is so different that there isnít much of your steps that I can do. I really like your boat.

    today has been a blah boat build day. I did manage to get something done, but the quality wasnít the best. I put the leather wrap on the mast for the mast partner. I got a ďJack SparĒ kit from duckworks.com. I followed the directions exactly but it didnít quite work out. I measured the diameter of the mast. The directions say to cut the leather 3/16Ē less than the mast diameter. To be safe I cut the leather to the mast diameter without cutting the extra 3/16Ē thinking I would have some leather to trim off for a good fit. When I wrapped the leather around the mast it was 1/4Ē to short which was to much gap. I soaked the leather in water for 5 hours and managed to stretch it enough to make it work, but there is still a little gap. Thatíll have to be good enough for now. I wanted to get the leather on so I could get the mast diameter to cut out the mast partner to the right OD. Iím going to use a hole saw, but I had to order one because it isnít a standard size that stores carry. I checked the angle to see how the mast would fit up against the mast partner and found that the hole has to be slightly sloped for the mast so fit flush against the partner. I can either cut the hole straight down and then file and sand the slope or I can prop up one side of the partner and then cut the hole at a slight angle. I did a trial run on a scrap piece with a smaller hole saw that I have and found that if I prop up the partner 7/8Ē on the forward side, the hole will have the right slope. It would be much safer to just cut the hole flat with the board clamped down then trying to prop it up in a precarious way and maybe doing damage. Iíll see how good I can get the board claimed down with it sloped and how brave I am when I get the hole saw. Even with getting it cut with a slope Iíll have to wait for the final fitting until I can get the boat out of the garage and the mast in place.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #566
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Ok, never mind, we all have blah days.............................................. ..................leather looks good to me, I've got to leather a pair of oars & keep putting it off..........

  7. #567
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    That leather looks great to me! Better than mine. Good luck with cutting the hole. I can't remember how I did mine. Maybe jigsaw?

    Keep up the good work!

    Mike

  8. #568
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    With some projects days and weeks can go by and I think it will never get done. Then when it is finally done I wonder what took so long. I finally finished the foredeck completely except for the final finish. I had to take several days off to work on other domestic projects and I went very slow for fear of screwing up. I put a screw from under the rail in each end of the two for most boards, three machine screws through the mast partner board and the knee, and used Total Boat Flexible epoxy on all the boards and the Carlinís. When the boat is out of the garage I can do a mast fit check to the mast partner and then I can make the mast gate to fit. To cut the mast partner hole I used a hole saw slightly undersized and tipped the board so the hole would match the slope of the mast.

    Before I start to paint Iíll have to decide if Iím going to put in a garboard drain plug now or wait until the boat is on the trailer so I can see where the low spot is. For other Ilur builders, if you put in a garboard drain, where did you put it?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #569
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    I'm curious--why cut it in half before installing?

    Tom
    2 reasons really. 1) the plank of ply will not span the foredeck so foredeck has to be made of >1 piece of ply and 2) cutting along the centreline makes joining easier when laying the deck and it's easily filleted after the deck adhesive has set.

    Regards Neil

  10. #570
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    I decided to install a garboard drain. I figured that if I didnít do it now I probably wouldnít later. I didnít like the idea of putting screws into the 3/8Ē ply planks and with so little material between the end of the screw and the ocean so I made a 1/8Ē thick boss and epoxied that onto the hull to give it just a little bit more meat to screw into. Having the drain raised up 1/8Ē means it wonít drain as much water, but it will still get most of it out.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #571
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Looks like a good solution. I ended up drilling 2 holes at the base of my Gannet transom so that I could install drain plugs on each side. My sole is screwed down so I couldn't access a drain in the garboard unless I re-engineered some of the sole - so I took the easy way out. The drilling of the holes was terrifying!

  12. #572
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    I did similar, but I put the extra meat on the outside of the hull. I think I used 1/4" in a circle and beveled it towards the edges.

    Yours looks great, though.

    Mike

  13. #573
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Hmm... You're making me jealous with those drain plugs. I'm in the "wrangle a cover over the boat, and bail out what gets in anyway." It's been a rainy summer. The bailer has been getting a workout.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  14. #574
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    A note of caution: I did forget to put the plug back in once and launched, on my Whilly Boat. That required some quick action!

  15. #575
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_Owen View Post
    A note of caution: I did forget to put the plug back in once and launched, on my Whilly Boat. That required some quick action!
    Always keep a spare in your gear bag as well as another spare in the console of your car/truck. They make Nylon ones that can be used for emergency plugs.

    I put a plug in all my boats unless it is one that is easy to tip and empty out. A drain plug is a must. Also keep some big sponges in your supply along with spare bilge pumps and of course you should always have what I call the "Oh ****" bucket...something below 5 gal that is easy for bailing. Bucket > Bilge pump > sponge = no water.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  16. #576
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    On my Ilur, I have drilled a hole in my plug and tethered it to the bungee cord that controls the position of the CB.
    And I still carry a spare on board and in my sailing bag.

  17. #577
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    I'm glad to see the conversation around drain plugs. All good info. I'll keep a spare plug and also drill and lanyard the plug.

    I'm dragging my feet about priming and painting and instead have been working on domestic projects for the coming winter. For some reason this winter is spooking me with concerns of cold and snowy days. I re insulated my well house with rigid foam and am thinking about getting it wired up for a generator. The winters have been pretty mild for the last few years and I've never felt the need for a generator, but with the climate changes we are experiencing I am not taking anything for granted.

    The boat is basically ready for prime and paint, but I keep thinking of minor things to do like putting in the drain plug. I also keep changing my mind about little details. I made stiffeners for the two thwarts, but after placing the thwarts and sitting on them I'm going back to the mid span supports because it just doesn't seem like the end supports are strong enough without a mid span support. Originally, after watching the Geoff Kerr videos I was going to paint everything. Then I was going to oil the thwarts, side seats, and aft deck. But, the wood I have is an eastern pine which I now see is fairly soft and already has several dings and dents. I'm thinking now of going back to epoxy, prime, and paint. Another question is about the foredeck carlin's and the mast partner gate. I'm still going to oil the foredeck which is Red Grandis, but what to do about the carlin's under the foredeck and the partner gate which are Ash. Should I prime and paint, or epoxy and varnish? When I have too many undecided questions I pause and wait until the answer comes.

    One question I decided on was to use machine screws to hold down the fore and aft thwarts. My original plan for the aft thwart was to use wood toggles under the thwart so it could be easily removed for camping. But, since I'm 70 and the actual times I might camp sail are limited, I decided to use machine screws with nuts for everyday use and then change out the nuts for wing nuts if I decide to do a camping trip. My default is always to make things secure and strong when possible.

    Today I am working on a project for my 95 ear old mother-in-law who lives next door. Winter is coming and there is lots to do, but my boat goal is to at least get the boat painted before it gets to cold.

  18. #578
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    If I may chime in on the thwarts, seats etc.

    My Tammie Norrie utilises hoop pine for these components and it is soft like radiata pine and yes there are a few minor dings etc. It's going to happen and I can't see epoxy without fibreglass making much difference other than making it harder to look after. The epoxy will crack around indents and that will require a lot of sanding, more epoxy and more sanding to fix.

    The thing is a boat, it's going to get knocked around here and there. I used Deks Olje #1 on all interior surfaces because of its ease of touching up. Leave the minor dings, wash it out then re-oil it. I've done it once since I built her and it was an easy and dare I say, enjoyable round of maintenance.

    In my world the easier the maintenance is, the more likely it is to happen. Especially as I get older.

    Anyway, that's just my two bobs worth.

  19. #579
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Thanks Steve for the ďoil itĒ pep talk. I see your point. I did some samples of oiling the pine and then applying varnish. The oil Iím using is Watco Exterior natural. It seems to soak in pretty good. I know Deks is good because Iím using that for my spars.

    Finally another milestone. Three coats of primer are on. Iím using System Three Silver tip Yacht Primer. It gets very hard once it dries. It also sticks really good too. A good indication is that it doesnít even come off my skin when I try to wash it off. Iíll let it sit for a few days before I start a light sand to prep for top coating.
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  20. #580
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    The floorboards in Fire-Drake are western red cedar - pretty soft stuff. I used Deks Olje #1 on it. Initially took about 6 coats if I recall. Now an annual wash and re-coat. Yes it has a bit of a lived-in look but, as Steve pointed out, it's a boat, not a piece of furniture.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.Ē
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  21. #581
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    That's a lovely crisp interior David.
    The leathers look great. I've just knocked up some oars and will be looking to do this soon also.
    For what it's worth I'll be oiling my thwarts and floorboards.

  22. #582
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    I thought Iíd take a moment to catch up on my progress. Iíve got the below decks painted with 3 coats of Interlux Bilgkote. I have 5 coats of Epifanes on the top strake. 5 coats is because I could not get the hang of using Epifanes. I tried a roller when the paint was too thick, a brush and foam tipping but the paint was still too thick, a better brush, and finally a good thinning, a better rolling pad and a foam tipping. I have ever used Epifanes paint before and may not again. Iím painting the rails, transom top, centerboard case top, and the top of the prow with Interlux Kingston Gray and I have that taped off. I put myself back a day because I just couldnít let some more imperfections go without another round of Quick Fair. That means another coat of primer over that too. I have the Centerboard rough formed. I may leave it as is or work on it a little more. I donít feel it has to be a perfect foil shape because the Ilur is such a tank and isnít designed as a speed deamon. The one picture from the designer shows the leading edge rounded over and the trailing edge feathered down to 3/16 to 1/4 which looks like what other Ilur builders have done. My goal is to get the interior painted before fall, but it feels like fall is coming soon and the temps are falling. Iím also feeling like fall is creeeping into my energy and slowing me down and getting me ready for winters slumber time.
    Working on projects at age 70 has some real draw backs. I donít see as well, my progressive glasses make it impossible to lower my head and look under things. It takes lots more light and even with a headlamp it is hard to see clearly in the garage. When I bend over the head lamp falls off, my glasses slip down, and my back doesnít bend like it used to. Nothing is impossible, but it takes longer and can be frustrating.

  23. #583
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    David, The health challenges we have (try mine!) just help us work a wee bit slower - so we build beautiful boats more carefully. But yes I agree - I once got really close to starting the chainsaw and chopping the stupid thing up because I was so frustrated - glad I didn't now though :-)

    Imagine the 1st days sail

    Regards Neil

  24. #584
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Quote Originally Posted by davidladd View Post
    I have the Centerboard rough formed. I may leave it as is or work on it a little more. I don’t feel it has to be a perfect foil shape because the Ilur is such a tank and isn’t designed as a speed deamon. The one picture from the designer shows the leading edge rounded over and the trailing edge feathered down to 3/16 to 1/4 which looks like what other Ilur builders have done.
    I really recommend taking the time to do a nicer foil shape on all foils, even on a tank like the ILUR!
    I have a photo album with a bunch of foil making photos. The wooden templates help a lot - can be made from a paper pattern.
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/baRVAbTU3zUZ9M6A8
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  25. #585
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    I found the shaping of the centerboard and rudder during my Somes Sound build, to be one of the most pleasant tasks of the entire project.

    Jeff

  26. #586
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    Default

    I'm planning on shaping the centerboard and rudder over the winter. Are there templates for the Ilur? Obviously I can't seem to find them...

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

  27. #587
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    David, that's very nice work! She's looking more and more like she just wants to be in the water. Once in a while I think how fantastic that will be, but then I think how much I'll miss the process. Just the satisfaction of watching her come together. So enjoy, you've got a good thing going there!

    Ken
    When the desire to learn is greater than the desire to win, the journey becomes the prize.

  28. #588
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Remi, centerboard and rudder foil templates now come with kits from Clint Chase (Chase Small Craft). He is the only one I know of that has them.
    I’m trying to finish up my painting, but I just don’t seem to have much luck getting a good finish. I’ve gone over some areas several times and I keep seeing flat paint spots. Today I have one more day of warm enough weather to get it right or let it go.
    Ken, the process is what gets me up and out every day. With winter weather moving in fast I’ll have to slow down and do a proper clean up of the shop.

  29. #589
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Quote Originally Posted by KenStocker View Post
    David, that's very nice work! She's looking more and more like she just wants to be in the water. Once in a while I think how fantastic that will be, but then I think how much I'll miss the process. Just the satisfaction of watching her come together. So enjoy, you've got a good thing going there!

    Ken
    I think I may be able to help here Ken - build another..................................

    Regards Neil

  30. #590
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Quote Originally Posted by davidladd View Post
    Remi, centerboard and rudder foil templates now come with kits from Clint Chase (Chase Small Craft). He is the only one I know of that has them.
    I’m trying to finish up my painting, but I just don’t seem to have much luck getting a good finish. I’ve gone over some areas several times and I keep seeing flat paint spots. Today I have one more day of warm enough weather to get it right or let it go.
    Ken, the process is what gets me up and out every day. With winter weather moving in fast I’ll have to slow down and do a proper clean up of the shop.
    David, you mean you are getting what we call "holidays" where you can see the previous coat of paint (usually looks dull) under where you have just rolled and/or brushed over?

    THese are the foil templates I make. They are developed via MIK Storer who found them from original research by a guy from Au named Pollack.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  31. #591
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    The painting is complete. I still didnít get the finish the way I would have liked, but it was time to stop. I did a few small jobs to feel like I completed Some things. The bow eye, the garboard drain, and the top bow section of half oval brass are on. The thwart supports are made and fitted onto the thwarts. The aft deck and side seats weíre already made and just need to be cleaned up and oiled along with the thwarts. Iím working on the floor boards. The floor boards are Alaskan Yellow Cedar. A friend helped me plane them down to just under 11/16. I have most of the main floor boards cut out, but they will need to be cleaned up, screwed down, and then eventually oiled. I painted the floatation foam and put it back in place. I was glad to get it out of the way. It took up a lot of space.

  32. #592
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Beautiful!!!

    Mike

  33. #593
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    That's a beautiful boat!!

  34. #594
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    That's lovely work David. You should be very proud of that. I love the colours.

    It's quite something how the thwarts and sole tidy up the interior.

  35. #595
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Hansville

    Looking good David, it's all coming together nicely.

    Cheers,
    Mike.
    Focus on the effort not the outcome.

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